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IronChef

Lots of redshirts this year?

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ASU is redshirting their entire men’s and women’s swimming & diving teams this year to avoid losing another year to COVID-19. They are taking the season off.

 

I don’t expect any wrestling teams to do that, but with the way things are going, if I was a wrestler with a redshirt available, I’m taking it this year.

 

https://www.si.com/college/2020/07/26/arizona-state-redshirt-swimming-diving-coronavirus

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My guess is there will at least be a lot of early season "preliminary" redshirts until coaches are more confident that there will be a championships. You'll see guys like Spencer Lee, Nick Lee, Roman Bravo-Young, etc that have redshirts to burn probably sitting out of "scheduled" competition early on.

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How’s that going work for ASU athletes that have already taken a redshirt year and are on the 5 year clock?  That hoping the NCAA will extend them for another year if their whole team is shut down?

I suspect that redshirting is not common in swimming so this is not an issue. None of the articles about this mention an issue, and a quick survey of the ASU roster doesn’t show any redshirts having been used, other than an Olympic redshirt or two.

 

Redshirting is less common in sports where you can’t compete during the year off.

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10 minutes ago, IronChef said:

I suspect that redshirting is not common in swimming so this is not an issue. None of the articles about this mention an issue, and a quick survey of the ASU roster doesn’t show any redshirts having been used, other than an Olympic redshirt or two.

 

Redshirting is less common in sports where you can’t compete during the year off.

Yeah, wrestling is one of the few sports where redshirting is the norm. 

I have never really heard of planned redshirts in sports like swimming, baseball, golf, and field hockey.  Football and basketball sometimes have them but they are really more of an instance of the athlete not being ready to contribute enough to the program (often sitting behind a star player at the position).

Baseball basically ensures that planned redshirts of scholarship athletes won't happen with their roster cap for all programs.  Not to mention the fact that baseball plays so many games that kids just wouldn't be too interested to give it up for a season.

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38 minutes ago, Pinnum said:

Baseball basically ensures that planned redshirts of scholarship athletes won't happen with their roster cap for all programs.  Not to mention the fact that baseball plays so many games that kids just wouldn't be too interested to give it up for a season.

In baseballs case throw in the fact that due to the normal lengthy draft that many schools want to get the most out of their athletes when they can.  If you turn down your HS draft offer your next chance to be MLB draft eligible is after your sophomore year.  Most players want to get two good years in to show the pro teams what they can do.  And if you are being asked to redshirt as a freshman and the pro team that drafted you offers you a decent signing bonus to entice you to play this year you have a little more incentive to jump to the pro’s.  Or a similar situation if you consider opting to stay in college after your sophomore season and your coach is considering redshirting you. 
 

(Same reason some middle round draft HS kids opt to go JuCo out of HS.  At that level they don’t have to wait until sophomore year to get re-drafted to try to get a bigger payday.)

Edited by MadMardigain

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3 minutes ago, MadMardigain said:

In baseballs case throw in the fact that due to the normal lengthy draft that many schools want to get the most out of their athletes when they can.  If you turn down your HS draft offer your next chance to be MLB draft eligible is after your sophomore year.  Most players want to get two good years in to show the pro teams what they can do.  And if you are being asked to redshirt as a freshman and the pro team that drafted you offers you a decent signing bonus to entice you to play this year you have a little more incentive to jump to the pro’s. Or a similar situation if you consider opting to stay in college after your sophomore season and your coach is considering redshirting you. 

The highlighted sentence is not accurate.  Four-year college players aren't eligible for the draft until after their junior year.  

The reason colleges don't redshirt baseball players is due to their own incentives.  You can't field a team if you're redshirting your freshmen.  Scholarship players must count against the 27 player scholarship roster limit and a team can only have 35 players (8 non-scholarship walk-ons).  

With a 56 game regular season you need all of the players available to play since you need rest for your pitchers.

A team could try to do what wrestling does and tank a whole year and redshirt their talent to get another year out of them but the players wouldn't get any development.  The baseball team spends a lot more time on the road and the players can't train with a "club" to get around the practice rules like wrestling does.  So you wouldn't have a coaching staff to develop the players redshirting.  You wouldn't get development out of your players if you weren't having them play in games so you'd take a ton of losses and not get better players out of it.  

It only works in wrestling because one All-American finish significantly boosts a team's finish at the NCAAs.  Getting an All-American in baseball (or first round draft pick) doesn't mean the team will do well nationally.  Baseball needs more depth to win. 

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4 hours ago, Pinnum said:

The highlighted sentence is not accurate.  Four-year college players aren't eligible for the draft until after their junior year.  

That's mostly true, but you can be a draft-eligible sophomore if you turn 21 before the MLB draft.

College -- Generally, a student at a four-year college is eligible after completion of their junior year or if the student is at least 21 years old.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/draftday/faq.jsp

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I don't blame the team for wanting to take next season off, but it's interesting because swimming & diving are supposedly considered to be safer pandemic athletic activities, relative to other sports.

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15 hours ago, JHRoseWrestling said:

Why don't you expect any wrestling teams to do that this year?  I think several will, assuming the decision isn't made for everyone as we saw in the spring.

I don’t expect it because wrestling teams don’t have a ton of guys who didn’t redshirt yet. They can’t redshirt their entire team because the entire team doesn’t have it available. A team could conceivably punt the season and redshirt everyone who can while letting the rest of the guys compete. Campbell did that the one year they were barred from the postseason due to APR problems.

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36 minutes ago, IronChef said:

They aren’t taking the season off because they are worried about catching the virus; they are worried that the championships will again be canceled and they will lose another shot at it.

That's probably most of it but I imagine there is some fear of the virus as well. 

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18 hours ago, IronChef said:

 

ASU is redshirting their entire men’s and women’s swimming & diving teams this year to avoid losing another year to COVID-19. They are taking the season off.

 

I don’t expect any wrestling teams to do that, but with the way things are going, if I was a wrestler with a redshirt available, I’m taking it this year.

 

https://www.si.com/college/2020/07/26/arizona-state-redshirt-swimming-diving-coronavirus

 

I've had 4 coaches from non DI levels already tell me they are looking at redshirting anybody with a redshirt available,  and allowing some others to possibly shine.  If it looks like season may not occur,  I think some are looking at having a gap year or grey shirt.  Expect some guys to compete (if season allows),  but it looking like 80 or 84 Olympics with many studs sitting this one out.    

 

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10 hours ago, BobDole said:

My guess is there will at least be a lot of early season "preliminary" redshirts until coaches are more confident that there will be a championships. You'll see guys like Spencer Lee, Nick Lee, Roman Bravo-Young, etc that have redshirts to burn probably sitting out of "scheduled" competition early on.

Bob,  my home county doubled case count from 1 to 2, noticed Russell county went up 8x so good to see you are still kicking, screaming & posting. :)

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15 hours ago, Swayz said:

I've had 4 coaches from non DI levels already tell me they are looking at redshirting anybody with a redshirt available,  and allowing some others to possibly shine.  If it looks like season may not occur,  I think some are looking at having a gap year or grey shirt.  Expect some guys to compete (if season allows),  but it looking like 80 or 84 Olympics with many studs sitting this one out.    

 

That only leaves D2 and NAIA (No Athletic Investigation Allowed) coaches as D3 does not offer athletic scholarships. 

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15 hours ago, ionel said:

Bob,  my home county doubled case count from 1 to 2, noticed Russell county went up 8x so good to see you are still kicking, screaming & posting. :)

The Nazi's didn't get me, neither will the 'rona.

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Good point. I do think we will see a lot more redshirts this year. On a related note, how many incoming recruits do you think will choose to delay enrollment to avoid burning a redshirt or losing the season? I think we will see a fair amount of that as well.

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16 minutes ago, IronChef said:

With the Senior Nationals in October allowing wrestlers who place to get an Olympic redshirt, there may be high participation from college guys concerned about the season.

I think they announced that 2020 Senior Nationals will have no impact on the Olympic Trials selection process, so I doubt it.  I think Last Chance Qualifier and NCAA Championships (if they have one) are going to be the final opportunities to qualify for the US Olympic Wrestling Trials.

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I am curious about another, related question that I haven't seen addressed.

If you did not qualify for an Olympic redshirt last year, but did qualify for the Olympic Trials via placement in the top 5 (I think it is 5) at the US Open, does that qualify you for an Olympic redshirt this year? Or do only those who qualified for the redshirt last year get another this year? And if so is it one and done (i.e. you can only use it this year if you did not use it last year in spite of having had it available to you)? Or can you take a second Olympic redshirt this year?

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6 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I am curious about another, related question that I haven't seen addressed.

If you did not qualify for an Olympic redshirt last year, but did qualify for the Olympic Trials via placement in the top 5 (I think it is 5) at the US Open, does that qualify you for an Olympic redshirt this year? Or do only those who qualified for the redshirt last year get another this year? And if so is it one and done (i.e. you can only use it this year if you did not use it last year in spite of having had it available to you)? Or can you take a second Olympic redshirt this year?

Never mind.

USAW answered my first question today by publishing the 2020 criteria.

https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Wrestling/Features/2020/July/30/Senior-Nationals-added-to-Olympic-redshirt-criteria

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Another good question is what if a wrestler places in the top 8 but isn’t qualified for the trials? Does he qualify for a redshirt when he has no chance to be an Olympian? Or will they be a last chance qualifier? I can’t remember if anything was announced about that other than that it was postponed. 

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2 hours ago, IronChef said:

Another good question is what if a wrestler places in the top 8 but isn’t qualified for the trials? Does he qualify for a redshirt when he has no chance to be an Olympian? Or will they be a last chance qualifier? I can’t remember if anything was announced about that other than that it was postponed. 

Good question. I have not seen that addressed anywhere yet. 

USAW did publish a list of who has qualified so far without outlining other avenues for qualifying. 

https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Wrestling/Features/2020/July/30/Updated-US-Olympic-Team-Trials-qualifiers

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On 7/28/2020 at 8:21 AM, TexRef said:

That only leaves D2 and NAIA (No Athletic Investigation Allowed) coaches as D3 does not offer athletic scholarships. 

You can still sit out as a DIII kid.   As for NAIA standing for that,  I am glad it is at least looking like that instead of the old National Assoc of Inelligible Athletes look.   NAIA at least has a rule where only so many individuals may wrestle in a dual or point scoring tournament for the entire year.   If you are dumb as a box of rocks and can't beat the starter,  you best hope you are in the top 12 in the room,  otherwise  exempted athletes (that can compete if not top 12 in the room)  have to have a certain GPA or they are just open tournament guys.   It helps reward hard workers in the classroom that might be 2-3 on depth chart.   

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