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Iowa Hawkeyes -- Culture with black athletes

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ESPN article on the football program is very enlightening.  Seems to be less about representation and more about being held to different disciplinary standards and discomfort in being themselves around the program.  It is well written and really an eye opener regarding systemic, and often subtle, daily racism that blacks endure.

 

On the outside looking in the wrestling team doesn't and hasn't had a lot of black athletes, which isn't unusual for Iowa City, but is there any review of the experience of those black athletes, either with the current administration or past?  It doesn't fit everyone but there definitely is an underlying preference in the program for hunting, country music and camouflage.  I will go ahead and be hypocritical here and mention that those traits often fit someone who isn't.....ahem....tolerant.

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10 minutes ago, Class said:

ESPN article on the football program is very enlightening.  Seems to be less about representation and more about being held to different disciplinary standards and discomfort in being themselves around the program.  It is well written and really an eye opener regarding systemic, and often subtle, daily racism that blacks endure.

 

On the outside looking in the wrestling team doesn't and hasn't had a lot of black athletes, which isn't unusual for Iowa City, but is there any review of the experience of those black athletes, either with the current administration or past?  It doesn't fit everyone but there definitely is an underlying preference in the program for hunting, country music and camouflage.  I will go ahead and be hypocritical here and mention that those traits often fit someone who isn't.....ahem....tolerant.

Dead-horse alert: if you are puzzled by what "systemic, and often subtle, daily racism" looks like, take a look at the discussion of D. Caldwell's return to mat. 

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4 minutes ago, Class said:

ESPN article on the football program is very enlightening.  Seems to be less about representation and more about being held to different disciplinary standards and discomfort in being themselves around the program.  It is well written and really an eye opener regarding systemic, and often subtle, daily racism that blacks endure.

 

On the outside looking in the wrestling team doesn't and hasn't had a lot of black athletes, which isn't unusual for Iowa City, but is there any review of the experience of those black athletes, either with the current administration or past?  It doesn't fit everyone but there definitely is an underlying preference in the program for hunting, country music and camouflage.  I will go ahead and be hypocritical here and mention that those traits often fit someone who isn't.....ahem....tolerant.

Hypocritical is spot on....along with judgmental, stereotypical, etc.  Trying to decide what your motive is here - Is it to  A) dig for information so that you can call Gable and Brands racist? B) create a thread that lights up a firestorm? C) Show a sincere care for the black community and their involvement in the sport of wrestling D) Answers A and B.  Hmmm......

BTW: to answer your request, Jeremiah Moody has  great things to say about Iowa wrestling:

https://www.farmersadvance.com/videos/sports/college/iowa/wrestling/2020/02/21/grueling-drill-iowa-wrestler-jeremiah-moody-could-barely-complete/4811932002/

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The front page of ESPN has lit the firestorm,  just click on it the page you can't miss it.

Can't we just be big boys and be OK with front page national news being discussed as a possible implication to wrestling as well?  Or is there some hope with the wrestling program at Iowa that they won't or shouldn't be looked at or talked about laterally from Doyle and Ferentz.

Clearly Doyle was and is a bit of a patsy for the larger department but it is well known he has worked with the wrestling program throughout his tenure.

Is it not OK to discuss that here?  Hoping it will just go away?

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13 minutes ago, Class said:

The front page of ESPN has lit the firestorm,  just click on it the page you can't miss it.

Can't we just be big boys and be OK with front page national news being discussed as a possible implication to wrestling as well?  Or is there some hope with the wrestling program at Iowa that they won't or shouldn't be looked at or talked about laterally from Doyle and Ferentz.

Clearly Doyle was and is a bit of a patsy for the larger department but it is well known he has worked with the wrestling program throughout his tenure.

Is it not OK to discuss that here?  Hoping it will just go away?

You seem to have a different definition with discussing and then accusing of not being a big boy. When you literally called yourself a hypocrite and called out country boys as "not tolerant"  you started on the premise of accusing that type of person of being racist. That's not a discussion - that's an accusation. Don't play the victim and accuse people of not wanting to talk about it when you started it with a bias and intolerant statement. 

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OK.  I will restart.  It is becoming more and more clear that there is a racist culture in the University of Iowa athletic department stemming from a sport that is highly inclusive of black athletes.  The individual at the center of the allegations worked with the wrestling team as well and the wrestling team seems to have a smaller % of black athletes compared to other programs in the sport.

Pushing glasses up to nose.  Is this succinct enough that we can discuss now?  Hopefully any references to "looks like a duck, quacks like a duck" type of bias and intolerance have been cleared here. 

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much better....good job...we now start with a viable discussion point. 

See the interview with Jeremiah Moody from January or February I believe. His take is that Iowa wrestling has been a great experience for him. Is there data out there on the number of minorities and more specifically black wrestlers  represented on teams? The number that actually participate in the sport itself in high school? The number that we would determine are D1 level athletes? To me the overall question requires answers and data to a lot of other questions.  Traditionally the participation level has been much lower for black athletes, but.I know that the BWA has been working on that with the likes of Mark Hall, Gadson and many others. 

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1 hour ago, jackwebster said:

Dead-horse alert: if you are puzzled by what "systemic, and often subtle, daily racism" looks like, take a look at the discussion of D. Caldwell's return to mat. 

Are you referring to on this forum?

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Curious as to when "it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck" is okay when making judgments about a group of people and when it isn't??

And I am all for equal rights, equal opportunities, etc. no matter race or sexual preference (this is something I have no idea how people can be on opposite sides of), but if you are going to discuss things like numbers of a certain race playing a sport or doing a sport please use ALL the numbers as opposed to cherry picking one set of numbers such as participation level.  You better include demographic and geographic numbers.  You better discuss cultural and societal norms, not just the concept of systemic racism (aka., here's a hint...not all cultural or societal norms are racists).  And for God's sake don't try and argue against stereotyping by doing that exact thing...you lose all credibility.

 

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Moody’s testimony helps.  I would be curious how many black rostered athletes the average B1G team has.  I think the research isn’t too difficult but I can’t do it myself.  Remember though speaking out takes a different kind of courage and challenge most can’t empathize with.  Especially from someone currently in the program (see football players, even when gone it is sooo much easier on them to say ‘me too’

 

IA seems lightly represented and to me the biggest question is why top 5/top 10 P4P black athletes don’t go to IA and seemingly don’t consider them?  Hall, Stevenson, Brooks, Bartlett, etc.  not that Brands and Gable are racist—similarly Ferentz seems to be liked by the football players alleging problems— rather what culture have they allowed to be perpetuated in their programs.  
 

it is easy for an IA fan to say we just take the best wrestlers we can get, but why isn’t that the guys listed above?  IA should certainly demand to be in their top 2, top 3 right?

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10 minutes ago, dman115 said:

Curious as to when "it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck" is okay when making judgments about a group of people and when it isn't??

And I am all for equal rights, equal opportunities, etc. no matter race or sexual preference (this is something I have no idea how people can be on opposite sides of), but if you are going to discuss things like numbers of a certain race playing a sport or doing a sport please use ALL the numbers as opposed to cherry picking one set of numbers such as participation level.  You better include demographic and geographic numbers.  You better discuss cultural and societal norms, not just the concept of systemic racism (aka., here's a hint...not all cultural or societal norms are racists).  And for God's sake don't try and argue against stereotyping by doing that exact thing...you lose all credibility.

 

I didn’t have much credibility to begin with.   Let me just put it this way.  White males probably will be OK, even if painted with a broad brush.  I say that being one and considering myself pretty conservative/libertarian.  Albeit I don’t hunt or wear camo.

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5 minutes ago, Class said:

I didn’t have much credibility to begin with.   Let me just put it this way.  White males probably will be OK, even if painted with a broad brush.  I say that being one and considering myself pretty conservative/libertarian.  Albeit I don’t hunt or wear camo.

Fair enough Class...

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12 minutes ago, Class said:

Moody’s testimony helps.  I would be curious how many black rostered athletes the average B1G team has.  I think the research isn’t too difficult but I can’t do it myself.  Remember though speaking out takes a different kind of courage and challenge most can’t empathize with.  Especially from someone currently in the program (see football players, even when gone it is sooo much easier on them to say ‘me too’

 

IA seems lightly represented and to me the biggest question is why top 5/top 10 P4P black athletes don’t go to IA and seemingly don’t consider them?  Hall, Stevenson, Brooks, Bartlett, etc.  not that Brands and Gable are racist—similarly Ferentz seems to be liked by the football players alleging problems— rather what culture have they allowed to be perpetuated in their programs.  
 

it is easy for an IA fan to say we just take the best wrestlers we can get, but why isn’t that the guys listed above?  IA should certainly demand to be in their top 2, top 3 right?

I recall Montell Marion being grateful he was a Hawkeye.  

I am also a little befuddled by the lack of diversity on Iowa's roster.  Good athletes are looking for opportunity more than anything else and from that perspective every wrstler should give Iowa a look.

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I'm not saying the environment in the wrestling room in Iowa is racist or anything along those lines. They recruit the best and Brands and co. give everyone a fair shot at the lineup. But, outside the room and athletic facilities,  maybe the fan base and state of Iowa is a different story. In the USA podcast that featured black athletes and their experience with racism both Gadson and Mark Hall mentioned their encounters they remember vividly both happened in Iowa. 

 

 

 

https://themat.tv/interviews/222297-kyven-gadson-mark-hall-and-james-green-on-racism-they-have-experienced-in-a-wrestling-setting

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So if the basketball team is predominantly black and listens to rap and hip hop, and the wrestling team is predominantly rural white and listens to country music. Is the wrestling team exposing blacks to systemic racism?

 

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2 hours ago, Class said:

ESPN article on the football program is very enlightening.  Seems to be less about representation and more about being held to different disciplinary standards and discomfort in being themselves around the program.  It is well written and really an eye opener regarding systemic, and often subtle, daily racism that blacks endure.

 

On the outside looking in the wrestling team doesn't and hasn't had a lot of black athletes, which isn't unusual for Iowa City, but is there any review of the experience of those black athletes, either with the current administration or past?  It doesn't fit everyone but there definitely is an underlying preference in the program for hunting, country music and camouflage.  I will go ahead and be hypocritical here and mention that those traits often fit someone who isn't.....ahem....tolerant.

Idiot

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2 hours ago, Class said:

Moody’s testimony helps.  I would be curious how many black rostered athletes the average B1G team has.  I think the research isn’t too difficult but I can’t do it myself.  Remember though speaking out takes a different kind of courage and challenge most can’t empathize with.  Especially from someone currently in the program (see football players, even when gone it is sooo much easier on them to say ‘me too’

 

IA seems lightly represented and to me the biggest question is why top 5/top 10 P4P black athletes don’t go to IA and seemingly don’t consider them?  Hall, Stevenson, Brooks, Bartlett, etc.  not that Brands and Gable are racist—similarly Ferentz seems to be liked by the football players alleging problems— rather what culture have they allowed to be perpetuated in their programs.  
 

it is easy for an IA fan to say we just take the best wrestlers we can get, but why isn’t that the guys listed above?  IA should certainly demand to be in their top 2, top 3 right?

Hall, Steveson, and Brooks were top recruits in the nation.  You can’t blame Iowa for not landing Hall and Brooks because PSU is the better program and as a 285 why would Steveson go anywhere else other than Stay at home at Minny?  Was there a top black 125 recruit that Iowa failed to land?  If we are going to cherry pick names, let’s ask Bubba how he feels about PSU?

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7 minutes ago, jchapman said:

Hall, Steveson, and Brooks were top recruits in the nation.  You can’t blame Iowa for not landing Hall and Brooks because PSU is the better program and as a 285 why would Steveson go anywhere else other than Stay at home at Minny?  Was there a top black 125 recruit that Iowa failed to land?  If we are going to cherry pick names, let’s ask Bubba how he feels about PSU?

I honestly wasn’t cherry-picking but was top of head thinking of top 5 P4P guys that were black.    MyMar certainly and Kerkviket as well.  Not questioning Iowa for not landing them, but we’re they top 3 on any of them?  Top 5? 

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Can't get them all.  Iowa was in on Steveson, Iowa was in his final 4 schools.  Would have been a good fit, too, but he obviously chose Minny who have a great history with the weight class.  They haven't had a lot of black athletes, although they have had some high profile ones, they have a had a lot of representation with Hispanic student athletes, though.

https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/5062522-gable-steveson-to-announce-college-decision-live-on-frl-during-ncaas

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13 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

Can't get them all.  Iowa was in on Steveson, Iowa was in his final 4 schools.  Would have been a good fit, too, but he obviously chose Minny who have a great history with the weight class.  They haven't had a lot of black athletes, although they have had some high profile ones, they have a had a lot of representation with Hispanic student athletes, though.

https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/5062522-gable-steveson-to-announce-college-decision-live-on-frl-during-ncaas

True - their current roster has a couple including Ybarra. 

Edited by Idaho

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Are people just looking to find things to call racist?  I am ALL for reducing racism in any form but sometimes if feels like people are trying to twist every thing into being racist.  Again, some of you all are just going off the assumption "well they don't seem to have had a lot of people of color on their team...hence there must be systemic racism there".  In my opinion that takes away the real fight to get rid of racism where it truly exists.

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There is no reason to connect the article on ESPN to the wrestling team at Iowa. The original poster wants to discuss the “possible implication to wrestling” when there is no implication that wrestling is involved. It was invented out of whole cloth by the original poster and then “supported” by anecdotal evidence about the makeup of the team. Class goes on to wonder about the makeup of the other Big Ten teams before claiming to be unable to click on some rosters and figure it out.

There is a way to have a conversation about systemic racism in college sports and the experience of black athletes on predominantly white campuses, but using an article about a football team as a flimsy way to go after a wrestling team at the same school isn’t it. 

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