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Iowa Hawkeyes -- Culture with black athletes

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56 minutes ago, ShakaAloha said:

Sure, it's quite simple.  I looked at the official rosters for all the teams and counted the number of minority wrestlers listed on each roster.  

Iowa: 2 minority wrestlers/31 total wrestlers = 6% of team is minority wrestlers
Penn State: 7/34=21%
Ohio State: 7/26=27%
Michigan: 5/35=14%
Nebraska: 4/35=11%

Thats what I figured. However, to determine that a number is significantly different is, in fact, not as simple.

I’m not trying to argue over your point or numbers but, rather, your improper use of the word “significant”, when in fact you merely eye-balled numbers instead of running a statistical analysis to prove your point. 
 

Yes, those number do seem “significantly” different, and probably are, but you should not say that, unless you can prove it.

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14 minutes ago, HokieHWT said:

Thats what I figured. However, to determine that a number is significantly different is, in fact, not as simple.

I’m not trying to argue over your point or numbers but, rather, your improper use of the word “significant”, when in fact you merely eye-balled numbers instead of running a statistical analysis to prove your point. 
 

Yes, those number do seem “significantly” different, and probably are, but you should not say that, unless you can prove it.

I'm not going to waste my time doing that buddy...and don't give me a lecture on my word choice.  

If the fact that Iowa has had only 1-2 minority guys on their team every year is not concerning to you, then I don't know what more that I can say.  Off the top of my head, the only other BIG-10 school that has similar numbers to Iowa is Wisconsin.  Even Northwestern, which has 20 guys total on their roster, has more minority wrestlers on their team this year.

I don't think the Brands brothers are racist, but I think the culture of the Iowa athletic department as a whole is not friendly to or accepting of minority student athletes, which I think was the original poster's point.  

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2 hours ago, ShakaAloha said:

Sure, it's quite simple.  I looked at the official rosters for all the teams and counted the number of minority wrestlers listed on each roster.  

Iowa: 2 minority wrestlers/31 total wrestlers = 6% of team is minority wrestlers
Penn State: 7/34=21%
Ohio State: 7/26=27%
Michigan: 5/35=14%
Nebraska: 4/35=11%

Did you count Jewish and Persian as minorities for Iowa, or just Hispanic?

If you are counting Hispanic as a minority, then why aren’t you counting Trey Escobar from Wisconsin?  

Edited by jchapman

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54 minutes ago, jchapman said:

Did you count Jewish and Persian as minorities for Iowa, or just Hispanic?

If you are counting Hispanic as a minority, then why aren’t you counting Trey Escobar from Wisconsin?  

Assuming we are going off standard definitions, generally speaking, Persian = Caucasian (literally).

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6 minutes ago, Le duke said:

Assuming we are going off standard definitions, generally speaking, Persian = Caucasian (literally).

If we are using strictly race, then most Hispanics are white or Caucasian too

Edited by jchapman

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7 hours ago, ShakaAloha said:

Iowa has two Hispanic wrestlers on their team.  The guys that you named: Ybarra and Reyna.  They have no African American wrestlers on their team.  

This is significantly lower than the other top BIG-10 schools, which is concerning.  Going off the posted rosters, Penn State had 7 African American wrestlers out of 34 total, Nebraska had 4/35, Michigan had 5/35, and Ohio State had 7 minority wrestlers out of 26 total.  

Charles Matthews is new to the roster and he is African American. 

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Comparing diversity across Big 10 wrestling programs is not nearly as valuable as identifying how far the demographics deviate from the general student population at the respective school.  Once that relationship is identified, there may be some value in comparing that number across programs.  Certain groups are just going to yield differently in different locations.

If a program is within a reasonable range of being representative of the student body as a whole... Then there's nothing to see here.  University of Iowa is 10% students of color including 3.2% black.  Make your judgements from there as you wish, but personally I see no reason to continue this discussion. 

Edited by JHRoseWrestling

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11 hours ago, ShakaAloha said:

I'm not going to waste my time doing that buddy...and don't give me a lecture on my word choice.  

If the fact that Iowa has had only 1-2 minority guys on their team every year is not concerning to you, then I don't know what more that I can say.  Off the top of my head, the only other BIG-10 school that has similar numbers to Iowa is Wisconsin.  Even Northwestern, which has 20 guys total on their roster, has more minority wrestlers on their team this year.

I don't think the Brands brothers are racist, but I think the culture of the Iowa athletic department as a whole is not friendly to or accepting of minority student athletes, which I think was the original poster's point.  

I'd be willing to bet you have zero knowledge of the culture of the Iowa Athletic Department. If I'm wrong, then please clue us in.

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Is it possible that Iowa is accepting to all comers yet not all comers want to go there due to location, the local culture (hunting, fishing, farming, etc.), academic offerings, etc.  And if so, what is wrong with that??  I wouldn't chose to go to New York University due to it being in the middle of a huge city...does that make me something other than what I personally prefer??  Or does it always have to be something nefarious like systemic racism or the big bad coaches and administrators are terrible people and only want a certain color of athlete??  Good grief people...it is amazing what the media and mob mentality can do to otherwise halfway intelligent people.

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1 hour ago, headache said:

I'd be willing to bet you have zero knowledge of the culture of the Iowa Athletic Department. If I'm wrong, then please clue us in.

Anyone who read the article(s) should now have some knowledge of how blacks are treated within the athletic department and it doesn’t appear to be very good.

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33 minutes ago, Class said:

Anyone who read the article(s) should now have some knowledge of how blacks are treated within the athletic department and it doesn’t appear to be very good.

The the report, followup ESPN article and followup investigation (released today) concern the football program. Most of the complaints concerned "drug testing" "dress codes" "discipline" "academic support", etc. within the football program. Not one word about the wrestling program. 

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On 7/27/2020 at 8:16 AM, Class said:

On the outside looking in the wrestling team doesn't and hasn't had a lot of black athletes, which isn't unusual for Iowa City, but is there any review of the experience of those black athletes, either with the current administration or past?

From the original question - I have not come across anything that suggests that Iowa wrestling and/or it's coaches are racist. I have posted two articles that show a positive experience and outlook toward the program. I have not come across one that would indicate otherwise. Even Montell Marion chose to stay in Iowa after being offered a release because of this legal troubles. He went on to win the team most courageous wrestler award. Would Brands or the program itself reject a top ranked recruit because they are a minority or black specifically? There is nothing that shows that they would reject that wrestler because they are a minority. Brands and Iowa want too pin. Period. They would have won the team title in 2020 with the roster they had.  Why doesn't the roster reflect more minorities? I don't think there is one solid answer to that question. There are many variables that have been pointed out by many posters. Although the football program and possibly the overall athletic department has issues, I don't see that being reflected in the wrestling program. 

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30 minutes ago, headache said:

The the report, followup ESPN article and followup investigation (released today) concern the football program. Most of the complaints concerned "drug testing" "dress codes" "discipline" "academic support", etc. within the football program. Not one word about the wrestling program. 

But...but...but...it has to be also part of all sports...it just HAS to be!  I personally don't think it is systemic racism in the football program but rather maybe some bad leadership and a couple bad people. 

And just so there isn't ANY confusion on how I feel about this...if there IS racism deep within any athletic program or university then ALL of those people and/or universities need to be taken down immediately and dealt with accordingly; however, we really need to stop making EVERYTHING about race and label everything systemic racism.

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Do you all really not see it.  Lets look at it this way.

Tom Brands came to IA in 2006, he just completed his 14th season.  Since Tom Brands arrived he has not signed one black athlete directly from high school that at least won a state championship.  NOT ONE.

Is this OK?  In an athletic department that is under a self imposed review of the black athlete experience.  Of course the few he has brought in show appreciation, because he has only brought in those that certainly appreciate the opportunity because they have credentials that usually don't get them into the Iowa wrestling room or they have come from some past that has them on a short leash.

Let me just say it again.  Tom Brands has not signed a black wrestler directly out of high school that has won a state championship in his 15 year tenure!  

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5 minutes ago, Class said:

Do you all really not see it.  Lets look at it this way.

Tom Brands came to IA in 2006, he just completed his 14th season.  Since Tom Brands arrived he has not signed one black athlete directly from high school that at least won a state championship.  NOT ONE.

Is this OK?  In an athletic department that is under a self imposed review of the black athlete experience.  Of course the few he has brought in show appreciation, because he has only brought in those that certainly appreciate the opportunity because they have credentials that usually don't get them into the Iowa wrestling room or they have come from some past that has them on a short leash.

Let me just say it again.  Tom Brands has not signed a black wrestler directly out of high school that has won a state championship in his 15 year tenure!  

Face facts.  People.  Don't.   Care. 

It is especially sad that Iowa fans don't care because this is why they don't win titles.

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The only 2 strongly credentialed (by D1 B1G standards) he has signed are Montell Marion who came from a previous relationship with Terry when he spent a year at the OTC and Ed Cooper who had a stint at Community College first.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Class said:

Do you all really not see it.  Lets look at it this way.

Tom Brands came to IA in 2006, he just completed his 14th season.  Since Tom Brands arrived he has not signed one black athlete directly from high school that at least won a state championship.  NOT ONE.

Is this OK?  In an athletic department that is under a self imposed review of the black athlete experience.  Of course the few he has brought in show appreciation, because he has only brought in those that certainly appreciate the opportunity because they have credentials that usually don't get them into the Iowa wrestling room or they have come from some past that has them on a short leash.

Let me just say it again.  Tom Brands has not signed a black wrestler directly out of high school that has won a state championship in his 15 year tenure!  

Your making a presumption that since people haven't signed there, he's not recruiting them, and we know that's just not true.

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Just now, VakAttack said:

Your making a presumption that since people haven't signed there, he's not recruiting them, and we know that's just not true.

Perhaps, but 15 years!  Also, your counterproof is Gable Steveson who has admitted on numerous occasions that he grew up a huge IA fan and remained a strong IA lean into high school.  Your making a presumption that IA pursued him appropriately to his talent level rather than him listing them in his final 4 due to that early fan pull.

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9 minutes ago, Class said:

Do you all really not see it.  Lets look at it this way.

Tom Brands came to IA in 2006, he just completed his 14th season.  Since Tom Brands arrived he has not signed one black athlete directly from high school that at least won a state championship.  NOT ONE.

Is this OK?  In an athletic department that is under a self imposed review of the black athlete experience.  Of course the few he has brought in show appreciation, because he has only brought in those that certainly appreciate the opportunity because they have credentials that usually don't get them into the Iowa wrestling room or they have come from some past that has them on a short leash.

Let me just say it again.  Tom Brands has not signed a black wrestler directly out of high school that has won a state championship in his 15 year tenure!  

How about to stop accusing men and an entire department of racism without any evidence. I don’t like Iowa and I’m not a fan of either brands brother but they’ve been around wrestling for 30 years , they’ve been college teammates, world team teammates with plenty of black athletes, they’ve coached freestyle and folk style black athletes and not once has anyone ever insinuated or accused them of any type of racism or bias so for this trash thread to go on for pages and days based off generic numbers, and ignoring all other points plenty of people made, just goes to show how people want to look for drama in everything.

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2 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

Your making a presumption that since people haven't signed there, he's not recruiting them, and we know that's just not true.

They aren't successfully recruited.  I feel like Class is just asking some good questions.  Iowa is a sweet landing spot for a wrestling recruit, so askign "what gives?" is fair.

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2 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

How about to stop accusing men and an entire department of racism without any evidence. I don’t like Iowa and I’m not a fan of either brands brother but they’ve been around wrestling for 30 years , they’ve been college teammates, world team teammates with plenty of black athletes, they’ve coached freestyle and folk style black athletes and not once has anyone ever insinuated or accused them of any type of racism or bias so for this trash thread to go on for pages and days based off generic numbers, and ignoring all other points plenty of people made, just goes to show how people want to look for drama in everything.

I guess I find that there is 'evidence' of a program that hasn't included black athletes.  I am not in anyway suggesting either Brands of being racist, but their program has some sort of underlying problem.  It is becoming very clear that Ferentz himself isn't racist, and for the most part is liked by the black football players.

If by 'evidence' you mean some sort of direct accusation by a black athlete I would actually suggest that personal circumstances, successes and emotion would make that much less reliable then something like solid, verifiable numbers.  Now, if dozens came out saying the same thing then that is another story, see the S&T guy Doyle.

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4 minutes ago, Class said:

I guess I find that there is 'evidence' of a program that hasn't included black athletes.  I am not in anyway suggesting either Brands of being racist, but their program has some sort of underlying problem.  It is becoming very clear that Ferentz himself isn't racist, and for the most part is liked by the black football players.

If by 'evidence' you mean some sort of direct accusation by a black athlete I would actually suggest that personal circumstances, successes and emotion would make that much less reliable then something like solid, verifiable numbers.  Now, if dozens came out saying the same thing then that is another story, see the S&T guy Doyle.

This is 4 pages of you insinuating that brands doesn’t recruit certain kids just because they are black ...it that’s not trying to make someone out to be a racist idk what is....

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Just now, Antitroll2828 said:

This is 4 pages of you insinuating that brands doesn’t recruit certain kids just because they are black ...it that’s not trying to make someone out to be a racist idk what is....

But he doesn't sign black kids.  I am not insinuating that, it is a fact.  Does that make him racist?

He hasn't signed one with a state title out of high school at Iowa yet.

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