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Iowa Hawkeyes -- Culture with black athletes

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2 minutes ago, Class said:

But he doesn't sign black kids.  I am not insinuating that, it is a fact.  Does that make him racist?

He hasn't signed one with a state title out of high school at Iowa yet.

You don’t work for Iowa, you aren’t a part of the program, you have no idea who they recruited and tried to sign.

You ignore that after one year at Nebraska they brought renteria in and when he signed at Iowa he talked about how they recruited him pretty hard and they were his second choice, unfortunately his father got ill and he had to leave to but that was in the last 2 years alone. I’m sure they went after Hall, Brooks and other tops guys.

All your showing is that brands isn’t as good a recruiter as some of his peers.

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3 minutes ago, Class said:

But he doesn't sign black kids.  I am not insinuating that, it is a fact.  Does that make him racist?

He hasn't signed one with a state title out of high school at Iowa yet.

16 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

They aren't successfully recruited.  I feel like Class is just asking some good questions.  Iowa is a sweet landing spot for a wrestling recruit, so askign "what gives?" is fair.

Signing is a two way street.  Do you have some sort of evidence that he is turning African Americans away?  Because we have evidence that he is recruiting African Americans.  Is it possible that African Americans are choosing not to go to Iowa, despite being recruited there, since there is a lot of negative recruiting going on particularly about Iowa and/or the general negative stereotype about Iowa wrestlers being robots and not liking to have fun?  All of the questions seem to be around one side of the equation.  Saying "Iowa is a sweet landing spot, so asking "what gives" is fair" is only being posed from one side; Iowa would benefit greatly from having African American wrestlers, why would Iowa cut them out?  Which is there prerogative to choose not to go to Iowa, by the way.  But why are we choosing to rob them of their agency by heavily insinuating Iowa is turning them away.

That doesn't touch on the fact that we're just dismissing any counterexamples, like Montell Marion, by saying they only got him due to a prior relationship with Terry Brands, who is one of the coaches we are in the process of insinuating is excluding athletes based on race.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

You don’t work for Iowa, you aren’t a part of the program, you have no idea who they recruited and tried to sign.

You ignore that after one year at Nebraska they brought renteria in and when he signed at Iowa he talked about how they recruited him pretty hard and they were his second choice, unfortunately his father got ill and he had to leave to but that was in the last 2 years alone. I’m sure they went after Hall, Brooks and other tops guys.

All your showing is that brands isn’t as good a recruiter as some of his peers.

They (somewhat famously) did not go after Brooks, but I do not know of another high level African American wrestler they haven't at least tried to recruit.

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1 minute ago, VakAttack said:

Signing is a two way street.  Do you have some sort of evidence that he is turning African Americans away?  Because we have evidence that he is recruiting African Americans.  Is it possible that African Americans are choosing not to go to Iowa, despite being recruited there, since there is a lot of negative recruiting going on particularly about Iowa and/or the general negative stereotype about Iowa wrestlers being robots and not liking to have fun?  All of the questions seem to be around one side of the equation.  Saying "Iowa is a sweet landing spot, so asking "what gives" is fair" is only being posed from one side; Iowa would benefit greatly from having African American wrestlers, why would Iowa cut them out?  Which is there prerogative to choose not to go to Iowa, by the way.  But why are we choosing to rob them of their agency by heavily insinuating Iowa is turning them away.

That doesn't touch on the fact that we're just dismissing any counterexamples, like Montell Marion, by saying they only got him due to a prior relationship with Terry Brands, who is one of the coaches we are in the process of insinuating is excluding athletes based on race.

 

 

I don't.  If Iowa is pursuing them strongly or as strongly as their white or latino counterparts in the rankings then there clearly is nothing to see here.  Did they pursue and offer Gable, Hall, Brooks, Red or Carr similarly to Marinelli, Evans, Lee, Dziewa and Kemmerer?  We don't know but the results make you go "huh?" and they continue when you go down the roster to the top 50 recruits, the top 100 recruits and the top 150 recruits.

I am merely suggesting there is a lot of smoke here in that they haven't signed anyone and their colleague sports in the University have some serious allegations pointed to them, those don't reach the wrestling team but the chances of that happening are super slim because the wrestling team has very little representation, particularly from athletes with strong credentials and secure backgrounds that  carry program influence.

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10 minutes ago, jchapman said:

@Class  8 of the 10 sprinters on Iowa’s Men’s Track and Field roster are black.  There are no Hispanic sprinters.  Would you consider this a lot of smoke?

Maybe, how is that representation versus say the rest of the B1G track and fields rosters?

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41 minutes ago, Class said:

But he doesn't sign black kids.  I am not insinuating that, it is a fact.  Does that make him racist?

He hasn't signed one with a state title out of high school at Iowa yet.

Your comical criterion - recruited out of high school with a state championship - just coincidentally excludes every black Iowa has had on the team. Why don't you drop it.

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3 minutes ago, headache said:

Your comical criterion - recruited out of high school with a state championship - just coincidentally excludes every black Iowa has had on the team. Why don't you drop it.

You do realize that almost all wrestlers at IA were multiple time state champions right?

i didn’t grab some crazy sample criteria that applied to the rest of the roster also.  Jeez!

 

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16 hours ago, ShakaAloha said:

I'm not going to waste my time doing that buddy...and don't give me a lecture on my word choice.  

If the fact that Iowa has had only 1-2 minority guys on their team every year is not concerning to you, then I don't know what more that I can say.  Off the top of my head, the only other BIG-10 school that has similar numbers to Iowa is Wisconsin.  Even Northwestern, which has 20 guys total on their roster, has more minority wrestlers on their team this year.

I don't think the Brands brothers are racist, but I think the culture of the Iowa athletic department as a whole is not friendly to or accepting of minority student athletes, which I think was the original poster's point.  

 

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1 hour ago, Class said:

Maybe, how is that representation versus say the rest of the B1G track and fields rosters?

I don’t know.  Why does it matter?  There was a time there were no black football players in the SEC, did that justify it for any one given school in the conference?

Edited by jchapman

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1 hour ago, Class said:

I guess I find that there is 'evidence' of a program that hasn't included black athletes.  I am not in anyway suggesting either Brands of being racist, but their program has some sort of underlying problem.  It is becoming very clear that Ferentz himself isn't racist, and for the most part is liked by the black football players.

If by 'evidence' you mean some sort of direct accusation by a black athlete I would actually suggest that personal circumstances, successes and emotion would make that much less reliable then something like solid, verifiable numbers.  Now, if dozens came out saying the same thing then that is another story, see the S&T guy Doyle.

,“but is there any review of the experience of those black athletes, either with the current administration or past?“

So you ask the question, then dismiss your own question when it’s answered and doesn’t fit your narrative.  

you say there have not been many black wrestlers recruited, but the ones who have say good things about the program. Then you want “dozens” to say the same thing so it’s valid, but there aren’t dozens As you originally said.  So you change and create scenarios where you can’t possibly be wrong. 

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12 hours ago, JHRoseWrestling said:

Comparing diversity across Big 10 wrestling programs is not nearly as valuable as identifying how far the demographics deviate from the general student population at the respective school.  Once that relationship is identified, there may be some value in comparing that number across programs.  Certain groups are just going to yield differently in different locations.

If a program is within a reasonable range of being representative of the student body as a whole... Then there's nothing to see here.  University of Iowa is 10% students of color including 3.2% black.  Make your judgements from there as you wish, but personally I see no reason to continue this discussion. 

Iowa has 32 on the roster as of today. We all know that changes. Of the 32, 1 is black. That makes the team percentage 3.3% black compared to the 3% of the entire student population at Iowa.  They currently have 3 other minorities with 2 being Hispanic making the team over 6 % Hispanic. The overall student population that is Hispanic is 7.1 %. There is one other as well I’m not accounting for.  I’m not seeing alarming numbers that differentiate from the entire general population of the school. 

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2 hours ago, VakAttack said:

Signing is a two way street.  Do you have some sort of evidence that he is turning African Americans away?  Because we have evidence that he is recruiting African Americans.  Is it possible that African Americans are choosing not to go to Iowa, despite being recruited there, since there is a lot of negative recruiting going on particularly about Iowa and/or the general negative stereotype about Iowa wrestlers being robots and not liking to have fun?  All of the questions seem to be around one side of the equation.  Saying "Iowa is a sweet landing spot, so asking "what gives" is fair" is only being posed from one side; Iowa would benefit greatly from having African American wrestlers, why would Iowa cut them out?  Which is there prerogative to choose not to go to Iowa, by the way.  But why are we choosing to rob them of their agency by heavily insinuating Iowa is turning them away.

That doesn't touch on the fact that we're just dismissing any counterexamples, like Montell Marion, by saying they only got him due to a prior relationship with Terry Brands, who is one of the coaches we are in the process of insinuating is excluding athletes based on race.

 

 

Indeed, it is a two way street.  Other teams are doing well in this regard.   TnT aren't doing a good job with this, that is self-evident.  Asking about the reasons why is fair.  It would only help Iowa if they did a better job and successfully recruited wrestlers from all races and creeds.

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1 minute ago, Plasmodium said:

Indeed, it is a two way street.  Other teams are doing well in this regard.   TnT aren't doing a good job with this, that is self-evident.  Asking about the reasons why is fair.  It would only help Iowa if they did a better job and successfully recruited wrestlers from all races and creeds.

How would they be better if they specifically recruited Asians to their team?

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1 minute ago, jchapman said:

How would they be better if they specifically recruited Asians to their team?

??  Are you asking if they would be better if they exclusively recruited Asians?  Of course not.  That is the opposite of what I said, BTW.

 

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This is so disappointing.  What are you guys suggesting (Class, Plasmodium, etc.)??  That they should recruit and have minority representation of their school on their roster?  Should they prove to the whole world that they have recruited all races equally?  What would prove...and not sure what you guys are looking for...that there isn't something nefarious going on?  What is unacceptable is for you guys to throw skewed stats and innuendoes and assumptions about a program and college coaches but provide no basis for doing so.  What do you guys get out of it by doing so?

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15 minutes ago, dman115 said:

This is so disappointing.  What are you guys suggesting (Class, Plasmodium, etc.)??  That they should recruit and have minority representation of their school on their roster?  Should they prove to the whole world that they have recruited all races equally?  What would prove...and not sure what you guys are looking for...that there isn't something nefarious going on?  What is unacceptable is for you guys to throw skewed stats and innuendoes and assumptions about a program and college coaches but provide no basis for doing so.  What do you guys get out of it by doing so?

I'm saying it would make them better. 

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3 hours ago, Class said:

Do you all really not see it.  Lets look at it this way.

Tom Brands came to IA in 2006, he just completed his 14th season.  Since Tom Brands arrived he has not signed one black athlete directly from high school that at least won a state championship.  NOT ONE.

Is this OK?  In an athletic department that is under a self imposed review of the black athlete experience.  Of course the few he has brought in show appreciation, because he has only brought in those that certainly appreciate the opportunity because they have credentials that usually don't get them into the Iowa wrestling room or they have come from some past that has them on a short leash.

Let me just say it again.  Tom Brands has not signed a black wrestler directly out of high school that has won a state championship in his 15 year tenure!  

How about repackaging the facts a bit? In the past 15 years not one black wrestler who won a state title in high school has decided to attend university in Iowa City. The point is, maybe it has nothing to do with wrestling, recruiting, etc. Maybe it has everything to do with moving to the Midwest and living in a city heavily populated by white folks. If I were a young man of color that issue would not go unnoticed by me...and I might decide against the Hawkeyes despite the great recruiting efforts of the coach. Just putting it on the table.

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35 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

??  Are you asking if they would be better if they exclusively recruited Asians?  Of course not.  That is the opposite of what I said, BTW.

 

No.  Where did I say exclusively?  

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He is saying why are you just insinuating things about only the number of black athletes on the Iowa wrestling program...versus ALL minorities...which could include Asians??  My guess is because that doesn't match the narrative.

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And as far as saying Iowa would be better if they had more minorities on their team...maybe they would, but as others pointed out, TnT may be doing the best recruiting job in the whole world but if Iowa City and The University of Iowa don't have what every person (white, black, brown, Asian, etc.) is looking for is it TnT and the athletic departments fault and heads should roll?

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12 minutes ago, dman115 said:

And as far as saying Iowa would be better if they had more minorities on their team...maybe they would, but as others pointed out, TnT may be doing the best recruiting job in the whole world but if Iowa City and The University of Iowa don't have what every person (white, black, brown, Asian, etc.) is looking for is it TnT and the athletic departments fault and heads should roll?

They are setup in Iowa. If they can't win ncaa titles, damn right heads should roll. 

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21 minutes ago, dman115 said:

He is saying why are you just insinuating things about only the number of black athletes on the Iowa wrestling program...versus ALL minorities...which could include Asians??  My guess is because that doesn't match the narrative.

They should successfully recruit the best wrestlers.  Then they should coach and mentor them to be champions.  That is what Carl does. 

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31 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

Your question is confusing.  Are you asking about quotas?

You said it would only help Iowa if they successfully recruited wrestlers from all races and creeds.  So I asked you why you think Iowa would be better if they recruited Asians to their wrestling team (Asian being one of the three races).

Edited by jchapman

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