Iowa Hawkeyes -- Culture with black athletes

[jchapman 1,092]

8 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

They should successfully recruit the best wrestlers.  Then they should coach and mentor them to be champions.  That is what Carl does. 

But you just said they should successfully recruit all races and creeds.  Which is not the same thing as recruiting the best wrestlers.

[dman115 126]

9 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

They should successfully recruit the best wrestlers.  Then they should coach and mentor them to be champions.  That is what Carl does. 

So you don't think Iowa is successful?  I personally can't stand Iowa or TnT, but one would just be being obtuse to suggest that Iowa hasn't been successful.

[Plasmodium 1,589]

11 minutes ago, jchapman said:

You said it would only help Iowa if they successfully recruited wrestlers from all races and creeds.  So I asked you why you think Iowa would be better if they recruited Asians to their wrestling team (Asian being one of the three races).

They should succesfully recruit the best wrestlers. Some of them are Asian. 

[Plasmodium 1,589]

10 minutes ago, jchapman said:

But you just said they should successfully recruit all races and creeds.  Which is not the same thing as recruiting the best wrestlers.

Yes it is

[Plasmodium 1,589]

9 minutes ago, dman115 said:

So you don't think Iowa is successful?  I personally can't stand Iowa or TnT, but one would just be being obtuse to suggest that Iowa hasn't been successful.

Of course Iowa is successful.  That is why I said iowa is a sweet spot for a recruit to land. 

[jchapman 1,092]

2 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

They should succesfully recruit the best wrestlers. Some of them are Asian. 

Who were the top Asian wrestlers that Iowa unsuccessfully recruited?

[jchapman 1,092]

5 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

Yes it is

Do you know how many roster spots and scholarships it would take to successfully recruit all races and creeds?

[Plasmodium 1,589]

3 minutes ago, jchapman said:

Who were the top Asian wrestlers that Iowa unsuccessfully recruited?

Any of them that a recruiting service would call the best. 

[Plasmodium 1,589]

1 minute ago, jchapman said:

Do you know how many roster spots and scholarships it would take to successfully recruit all races and creeds?

Consistently other than zero

[jchapman 1,092]

4 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

Any of them that a recruiting service would call the best. 

Name one

[Plasmodium 1,589]

Weird there is disagreement on something this simple and obvious.  Analogous to pushing back against advising a guy who can't get out from bottom to improve from bottom.

[Plasmodium 1,589]

1 minute ago, jchapman said:

Name one

Other than great ones from the past, I can't.  They shouldn't recruit them if they aren't the best.  But when they pop up, and they wiil, they should recruit them.

[1032004 869]

4 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

Face facts.  People.  Don't.   Care. 

It is especially sad that Iowa fans don't care because this is why they don't win titles.

They don’t win titles because they don’t have enough black wrestlers?

[Plasmodium 1,589]

Just now, 1032004 said:

They don’t win titles because they don’t have enough black wrestlers?

Not per se, but their pool of recruits is smaller and that harms them.

[jchapman 1,092]

1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

They don’t win titles because they don’t have enough black wrestlers?

Or theoretical Asian wrestlers

[npope 156]

Oh c'mon guys, this is getting ridiculous. I think we all know that the bottom line is that Iowa (or any other school) should be recruiting the best wrestlers available regardless of their skin color. The issue initially raised was that maybe Iowa isn't doing that because of some statistics presented over the past 15 years. Iowa wrestling, with its historical wealth of great black athletes, including national champs, does not deserve to be cast in this negative light (and I am NOT an Iowa fan).

Class is a new poster (at least a new name) and he latched on to a volatile topic (race) to get things roiling on the forum. Kudos to him for hitting on a topic that generated six pages of response so far. If any of you truly think that Iowa is somehow not recruiting the best athletes out there, regardless of race, you are living under a rock. The evidence repeatedly cited is a lack of black H.S. state champs in the last 15 years. Fine, but that fact does not embrace at all the fact that the wrestlers themselves are at least 50% of this equation - they may not want to live in Iowa City for four years - no matter who is the coach. Class has laid out one hypothesis and ignored multiple other possible explanations. And six pages worth or responses have taken the bait. I am sure Class is very pleased with himself.

Ordinarily I would be pleased with this particular stirring of the pot, but in this highly sensitized racial environment, maybe it isn't the most positive of topics.

[jp157 73]

Wrestling is without a doubt considered either a rural white sport or a rich white suburban sport by a large chunk of the African American community. 
 

I won’t comment on it more than that. The reasons for that perception are numerous, everything from cultural norms to wrestling cultures self inflicted wounds,  But denying that is naive.

The real elephant in the room race wise is reffing.. something that every single person who has coached black athletes for any extended period of time can share many, many stories about over drinks. 
 

TS, threads premise is, no pun intended, threadbare. And actually distracts from the real issues. See above. 

[jchapman 1,092]

8 minutes ago, jp157 said:

Wrestling is without a doubt considered either a rural white sport or a rich white suburban sport by a large chunk of the African American community. 
 

I won’t comment on it more than that. The reasons for that perception are numerous, everything from cultural norms to wrestling cultures self inflicted wounds,  But denying that is naive.

The real elephant in the room race wise is reffing.. something that every single person who has coached black athletes for any extended period of time can share many, many stories about over drinks. 
 

TS, threads premise is, no pun intended, threadbare. And actually distracts from the real issues. See above. 

Pretend we are having drinks.  Share some stories.  This may be enlightening.

[1032004 869]

18 minutes ago, jp157 said:

Wrestling is without a doubt considered either a rural white sport or a rich white suburban sport by a large chunk of the African American community. 
 

 

 

I don’t think most people would consider it a “rich white suburban sport” IMO

[fadzaev2 318]

There names may have been mentioned above somewhere but 3 all-time greats were Chris Campbell, Joe Williams and T.J. Williams....I'll leave it at that.

[jchapman 1,092]

2 minutes ago, fadzaev2 said:

There names may have been mentioned above somewhere but 3 all-time greats were Chris Campbell, Joe Williams and T.J. Williams....I'll leave it at that.

But they weren’t state champs within the last 15 years... lol

[Plasmodium 1,589]

18 minutes ago, npope said:

Oh c'mon guys, this is getting ridiculous. I think we all know that the bottom line is that Iowa (or any other school) should be recruiting the best wrestlers available regardless of their skin color. The issue initially raised was that maybe Iowa isn't doing that because of some statistics presented over the past 15 years. Iowa wrestling, with its historical wealth of great black athletes, including national champs, does not deserve to be cast in this negative light (and I am NOT an Iowa fan).

Class is a new poster (at least a new name) and he latched on to a volatile topic (race) to get things roiling on the forum. Kudos to him for hitting on a topic that generated six pages of response so far. If any of you truly think that Iowa is somehow not recruiting the best athletes out there, regardless of race, you are living under a rock. The evidence repeatedly cited is a lack of black H.S. state champs in the last 15 years. Fine, but that fact does not embrace at all the fact that the wrestlers themselves are at least 50% of this equation - they may not want to live in Iowa City for four years - no matter who is the coach. Class has laid out one hypothesis and ignored multiple other possible explanations. And six pages worth or responses have taken the bait. I am sure Class is very pleased with himself.

Ordinarily I would be pleased with this particular stirring of the pot, but in this highly sensitized racial environment, maybe it isn't the most positive of topics.

Have you not read the last two pages? 

If they are indeed recruiting minorities, they are  unsuccessful.  Why?  It is a legit question.  Maybe it is Iowa city, but other sports at Iowa don't look like the proverbial sore thumb. Iowa is a great place for wrestling..  Most recruits want athletic opportunities more than anything else.  It is very odd. 

[HokieHWT 587]

Side note:

why is a good black wrestler always called an athlete or spoken about how athletic they are/were?

It’s happened a few times in this thread and ALWAYS during the NCAAs on ESPN.

 

[Plasmodium 1,589]

6 minutes ago, fadzaev2 said:

There names may have been mentioned above somewhere but 3 all-time greats were Chris Campbell, Joe Williams and T.J. Williams....I'll leave it at that.

Different generation, coaches, culture.  Only the singlet design remains.  Although, I assume, Chris Campbell's was made of wool. 

[jchapman 1,092]

1 minute ago, Plasmodium said:

Different generation, coaches, culture.  Only the singlet design remains.  Although, I assume, Chris Campbell's was made of wool. 

Weren’t the Brands around for the Williams?