Iowa Hawkeyes -- Culture with black athletes

[jchapman 1,330]

4 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

Yeah, they were in their twenties.  I doubt they played a role in recruiting them. 

So not different coaches.  Also, why do you doubt the Brands played a role in recruiting the Williams?

[HokieHWT 593]

6 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

Yeah, they were in their twenties.  I doubt they played a role in recruiting them. 

Dresser helped with recruiting TNT, so I would that they helped with Williams and all the other recruits.

[fadzaev2 545]

9 minutes ago, jchapman said:

Weren’t the Brands around for the Williams?

It looks like they were assistants for both Joe and TJ.  Terry was there originally from 92-2000.  Joe Williams was 94-98 and TJ was 99-2001.  Tom was an asst. originally from 1993 to 2004.

 

[Plasmodium 2,255]

2 minutes ago, jchapman said:

So not different coaches.  Also, why do you doubt the Brands played a role in recruiting the Williams?

Too close in age, at least for Joe.  They were competing themselves during that time.  They certainly weren't recruiting on their own.  Obviously Gable was successful at recruiting a wide variety of people. 

[Class 148]

The fact that the examples given, with the most recent being recruited 23 years ago, kind of reinforces the original point doesn't it.

You guys can LOL at "it wasn't in the last 15 years" but c'mon.  This is getting a bit comical.

Again, not one/uno/single high level black athlete recruited out of high school with the current staff despite them being in place a decade and a half.  Apparently saying something like this is "playing with numbers" or "insinuating" but this is just head in the sand mentality.

[jchapman 1,330]

1 minute ago, Class said:

The fact that the examples given, with the most recent being recruited 23 years ago, kind of reinforces the original point doesn't it.

You guys can LOL at "it wasn't in the last 15 years" but c'mon.  This is getting a bit comical.

Again, not one/uno/single high level black athlete recruited out of high school with the current staff despite them being in place a decade and a half.  Apparently saying something like this is "playing with numbers" or "insinuating" but this is just head in the sand mentality.

So you are saying they haven’t recruited a single high level black athlete? Weren’t they in on Steveson?

[Class 148]

1 minute ago, jchapman said:

So you are saying they haven’t recruited a single high level black athlete? Weren’t they in on Steveson?

Recruited in that sentence meant to imply successfully landed, as in "Iowa recruited Brent Metcalf".  I can edit if you like but hoping and thinking you knew the intent.

[Plasmodium 2,255]

18 minutes ago, HokieHWT said:

Dresser helped with recruiting TNT, so I would that they helped with Williams and all the other recruits.

Also, Zalesky must have had a lot of responsibility in that department. 

[jchapman 1,330]

4 minutes ago, Class said:

Recruited in that sentence meant to imply successfully landed, as in "Iowa recruited Brent Metcalf".  I can edit if you like but hoping and thinking you knew the intent.

You mean Va. Tech successfully recruited Brett Metcalf?

[Class 148]

3 minutes ago, jchapman said:

You mean Va. Tech successfully recruited Brett Metcalf?

Ha ha.  Well crap.

[jchapman 1,330]

Just now, Class said:

Ha ha.  Well crap.

Lol

[jp157 514]

1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

I don’t think most people would consider it a “rich white suburban sport” IMO

It has been trending that way for awhile and is more and more dominated by private prep schools. The majority of the clientele that can afford to be in the club system come from this demographic as well.

[jp157 514]

1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

 

Edited July 31, 2020 by jp157
Double

[HokieHWT 593]

Here are the Black NCAA Champs since 2007:

2019 Lewis-VT

2018 None

2017 Hall- PSU; Cox- MIZZU

2016 Garrett-CORN; Martin- tOSU; Cox- MIZZU

2015 Gadson- ISU

2014 Ruth- PSU; Cox- MIZZU

2013 Maple- OU; Ruth- PSU

2012 Ruth- PSU

2011 Robles- ASU (although PAC-12 network did a spotlight on him for the LatinX community, the promotion of his movie mentions him being “black wrestler”); Jenkins- ASU; Burroughs- NEB

2010 None

2009 Caldwell- NCST; Burroughs- NEB

2008 Davis- PSU

2007 None

what this tells me is PSU is so good because they recruit black wrestlers, Iowa should do that too.

[jp157 514]

1 hour ago, jchapman said:

Pretend we are having drinks.  Share some stories.  This may be enlightening.

Everything from calls on the exact same situation always going one way, refs getting disproportionately angry at little stupid high school mistakes like forgetting to take off a wristband, immediate assumptions of “attitude”. My favorite is a ref ducking over my kid. said and I quote, “well coach, you know the “right” kid won anyway“. And stall calls always happen magically faster.

Like many such things, a lot of it can be “explained” away. Yet it keeps mysteriously happening. (Such things that originated the term “micro-aggression” before that wording got ruined). Or people will try to invalidate it by claiming I’m just worried about my kids.

I know my experience as a coach is not unique. Denying it’s there just will get a shrug and an eye roll after a certain point. Some of it is more blatant than others. 
 

And it’s actually not a really politicized thing among coaches. I know coaches that Are about as right wing as you can get on most issues but will unabashedly agree about this.

Which is actually why I was hesitant to go into detail. I don’t want jack wagons trying to politicize it by saying I’m lying or exaggerating. Or for some virtue signaler trying to show off his supposed wokeness like Class to over blow it either. The blatant bias in the reffing is there. As of right now it is what it is. Whether or not you think it’s actually a problem is on you as person. 

[jchapman 1,330]

2 minutes ago, jp157 said:

Everything from calls on the exact same situation always going one way, refs getting disproportionately angry at little stupid high school mistakes like forgetting to take off a wristband, immediate assumptions of “attitude”. My favorite is a ref ducking over my kid. said and I quote, “well coach, you know the “right” kid won anyway“. And stall calls always happen magically faster.

Like many such things, a lot of it can be “explained” away. Yet it keeps mysteriously happening. (Such things that originated the term “micro-aggression” before that wording got ruined). Or people will try to invalidate it by claiming I’m just worried about my kids.

I know my experience as a coach is not unique. Denying it’s there just will get a shrug and an eye roll after a certain point. Some of it is more blatant than others. 
 

And it’s actually not a really politicized thing among coaches. I know coaches that Are about as right wing as you can get on most issues but will unabashedly agree about this.

Which is actually why I was hesitant to go into detail. I don’t want jack wagons trying to politicize it by saying I’m lying or exaggerating. Or for some virtue signaler trying to show off his supposed wokeness like Class to over blow it either. The blatant bias in the reffing is there. As of right now it is what it is. Whether or not you think it’s actually a problem is on you as person. 

Chill, I was just asking you to share.  I don’t coach wrestling, so I thought it would be good to hear examples.

[jp157 514]

2 minutes ago, jchapman said:

Chill, I was just asking you to share.  I don’t coach wrestling, so I thought it would be good to hear examples.

Don’t worry, I’m actually pretty calm. The angry version is much much longer lol. My main worry is people taking it out context. Your question was valid.
 

Please don’t take it as an attack on you. 

Edited July 31, 2020 by jp157
Additional thought

[HokieHWT 593]

9 minutes ago, jp157 said:

Everything from calls on the exact same situation always going one way, refs getting disproportionately angry at little stupid high school mistakes like forgetting to take off a wristband, immediate assumptions of “attitude”. My favorite is a ref ducking over my kid. said and I quote, “well coach, you know the “right” kid won anyway“. And stall calls always happen magically faster.

Like many such things, a lot of it can be “explained” away. Yet it keeps mysteriously happening. (Such things that originated the term “micro-aggression” before that wording got ruined). Or people will try to invalidate it by claiming I’m just worried about my kids.

I know my experience as a coach is not unique. Denying it’s there just will get a shrug and an eye roll after a certain point. Some of it is more blatant than others. 
 

And it’s actually not a really politicized thing among coaches. I know coaches that Are about as right wing as you can get on most issues but will unabashedly agree about this.

Which is actually why I was hesitant to go into detail. I don’t want jack wagons trying to politicize it by saying I’m lying or exaggerating. Or for some virtue signaler trying to show off his supposed wokeness like Class to over blow it either. The blatant bias in the reffing is there. As of right now it is what it is. Whether or not you think it’s actually a problem is on you as person. 

I’ve coached urban teams before with all-black rosters and ran into similar situations, not as often as you have, at least as I perceive it.

My question to you is, what did you do about it? Report it to your AD? Principal? Tournament director? Head official? 
 

If so, what did they do about it?

[1032004 1,452]

34 minutes ago, jp157 said:

It has been trending that way for awhile and is more and more dominated by private prep schools. The majority of the clientele that can afford to be in the club system come from this demographic as well.

Maybe it’s senantics but I’m not sure if I’d call a lot of those people “rich.”  Middle to upper middle class sure.  I’ve always got the impression that while there are certainly a lot of families that spend a lot of money on wrestling, they don’t necessarily have much left over after that.

I think the increased domination of private prep schools has more to do with them drawing from a larger geographic area than in the past and more poaching from kids that previously went to public school (NDGP, LHP, etc) than “private school kids” being a high % of the elite wrestlers.   Plus schools like Blair (and likely even some more “traditional” private schools) offer scholarships.

[1032004 1,452]

34 minutes ago, jp157 said:

It has been trending that way for awhile and is more and more dominated by private prep schools. The majority of the clientele that can afford to be in the club system come from this demographic as well.

Maybe it’s senantics but I’m not sure if I’d call a lot of those people “rich.”  Middle to upper middle class sure.  I’ve always got the impression that while there are certainly a lot of families that spend a lot of money on wrestling, they don’t necessarily have much left over after that.

I think the increased domination of private prep schools has more to do with them drawing from a larger geographic area than in the past and more poaching from kids that previously went to public school (NDGP, LHP, etc) than “private school kids” being a high % of the elite wrestlers.   Plus schools like Blair (and likely even some more “traditional” private schools) offer scholarships.

[jp157 514]

2 minutes ago, HokieHWT said:

I’ve coached urban teams before with all-black rosters and ran into similar situations, not as often as you have, at least as I perceive it.

My question to you is, what did you do about it? Report it to your AD? Principal? Tournament director? Head official? 
 

If so, what did they do about it?

Twice. One I didn’t have film. So the head refs hands were tied. He wanted to do something but couldn’t without it. The other I reported to head refs and had film. But honestly the only thing I really got the ref on was “not knowing” proper overtime procedure.. in the postseason.
 

My principal doesn’t really care about athletics and my AD as the BB coach deals with the same stuff actually. We shoot the excrement bout it on occasion. 
 

Most of it goes under stuff that can be barely explained away or dismissed as just a “biased coach”. Though I’ve found with that the umm questionable calls.. the refs are much more aggressive in threatening to boot you when you approach the table

[jp157 514]

Just now, 1032004 said:

Maybe it’s senantics but I’m not sure if I’d call a lot of those people “rich.”  Middle to upper middle class sure.  I’ve always got the impression that while there are certainly a lot of families that spend a lot of money on wrestling, they don’t necessarily have much left over after that.

I think the increased domination of private prep schools has more to do with them drawing from a larger geographic area than in the past and more poaching from kids that previously went to public school (NDGP, LHP, etc) than “private school kids” being a high % of the elite wrestlers.   Plus schools like Blair (and likely even some more “traditional” private schools) offer scholarships.

It’s regional. Ohio and PA are much more rural based than IL or GA. The latter two states are most definitely dominated by upper middle class to rich teams. The overall trends are going that way as well. As the club seen and culture dominate more and more

[jp157 514]

4 minutes ago, jp157 said:

Twice. One I didn’t have film. So the head refs hands were tied. He wanted to do something but couldn’t without it. The other I reported to head refs and had film. But honestly the only thing I really got the ref on was “not knowing” proper overtime procedure.. in the postseason.
 

My principal doesn’t really care about athletics and my AD as the BB coach deals with the same stuff actually. We shoot the excrement bout it on occasion. 
 

Most of it goes under stuff that can be barely explained away or dismissed as just a “biased coach”. Though I’ve found with that the umm questionable calls.. the refs are much more aggressive in threatening to boot you when you approach the table

**ill also add that 9/10 the only thing I can do is prep my kids for it.

[Plasmodium 2,255]

In the west, Latinos make up a huge portion of wrestlers.

[npope 174]

3 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

Have you not read the last two pages? 

... but other sports at Iowa don't look like the proverbial sore thumb. Iowa is a great place for wrestling..  Most recruits want athletic opportunities more than anything else.  It is very odd. 

Ahem, and have you not read the national news concerning the state of Iowa football? I think Iowa has bigger problems than a wrestling team that has a limited number of blacks on the team.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2020/07/30/iowa-football-review-details-racial-bias-kirk-ferentz-support/5544507002/