Iowa Hawkeyes -- Culture with black athletes

[npope 156]

3 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

Have you not read the last two pages? 

... but other sports at Iowa don't look like the proverbial sore thumb. Iowa is a great place for wrestling..  Most recruits want athletic opportunities more than anything else.  It is very odd. 

Ahem, and have you not read the national news concerning the state of Iowa football? I think Iowa has bigger problems than a wrestling team that has a limited number of blacks on the team.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2020/07/30/iowa-football-review-details-racial-bias-kirk-ferentz-support/5544507002/

[Antitroll2828 560]

2 hours ago, npope said:

Ahem, and have you not read the national news concerning the state of Iowa football? I think Iowa has bigger problems than a wrestling team that has a limited number of blacks on the team.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2020/07/30/iowa-football-review-details-racial-bias-kirk-ferentz-support/5544507002/

This whole thing is about a dress code... athletes complaining they couldn’t express themselves because it’s a strict program

[npope 156]

6 hours ago, Antitroll2828 said:

This whole thing is about a dress code... athletes complaining they couldn’t express themselves because it’s a strict program

Okay, yeah sure. The report states (geeez, there's even a 28 page report on the matter!?), "Several current and former players shared the view that some coaches have used those values to create and perpetuate an environment that bullies and demeans athletes, especially Black athletes." Personally, to me, sounds a bit bigger than not just being able to wear one's hoodie when one wants to. Somebody wants "smoke and fire"??

That said, my point is that all is NOT well in Iowa City more generally and it has bigger things to worry about than not having a national champion caliber black wrestler on its 25 man roster for the last couple of years...despite having had any number of other young men of color, e.g., Hispanic. The point is there could well be other factors at work (other than allegations of a racist wrestling coach) about the strong, predominantly white, Midwestern cultural possibly being the reason for a lack of rush of young people of color to that school/location; maybe this noise about a potentially racially biased wrestling coach is much ado about nothing. 

And this doesn't mean that someone in a leadership role doesn't have a racial bias (we don't know) - but rather, just because some incredibly gifted black wrestlers haven't been in the lineup in recent years should NOT be the foundation of veiled allegations of racism. Come back when some real evidence comes out; then come back and start a slander campaign.

Edited July 31, 2020 by npope

[Plasmodium 1,596]

This is a taboo subject for some.  That doesn't make it irrelevant.

Interesting differences between Iowa football and wrestling.  Doubtful a B10 football team  could stay in a game without some diversity. So they do what is necessary to field a competitive team. They get well deserved flack for being unable to deal with diverse people.  The wrestling team, on the other hand, is more than competitive without diversity.  So they aren't pressured to be multicultural and then don't get flack for being unable to handle diversity. This also has its shortcomiings, but nobody cares about that.

[headache 125]

13 hours ago, Class said:

The fact that the examples given, with the most recent being recruited 23 years ago, kind of reinforces the original point doesn't it.

You guys can LOL at "it wasn't in the last 15 years" but c'mon.  This is getting a bit comical.

Again, not one/uno/single high level black athlete recruited out of high school with the current staff despite them being in place a decade and a half.  Apparently saying something like this is "playing with numbers" or "insinuating" but this is just head in the sand mentality.

You have been told time and time again that Iowa has been recruiting the elite level black wrestlers, yet you ignore this and continue to insinuate that the Brands don't want black wrestlers. At this point I'm not so sure you're not just trolling.

Iowa went hard after John Meeks, RBY, Mark Hall, and Gable Steveson. They were top priority recruits and Iowa had their money on the table. 

And then, you invent some incoherent criterion that allows you to claim that black Iowa wrestlers Marion, Cooper, and Moody don't count as black recruits. Absolutely bizarre. Plus you ignore Aaron Cashman and the many Hispanic minorities Iowa hand recruited. 

You're making no sense.

 

Edited July 31, 2020 by headache

[NJDan 588]

45 minutes ago, headache said:

You have been told time and time again that Iowa has been recruiting the elite level black wrestlers, yet you ignore this and continue to insinuate that the Brands don't want black wrestlers. At this point I'm not so sure you're not just trolling.

Iowa went hard after John Meeks, RBY, Mark Hall, and Gable Steveson. They were top priority recruits and Iowa had their money on the table. 

And then, you invent some incoherent criterion that allows you to claim that black Iowa wrestlers Marion, Cooper, and Moody don't count as black recruits. Absolutely bizarre. Plus you ignore Aaron Cashman and the many Hispanic minorities Iowa hand recruited. 

You're making no sense.

 

It's possible that two things are true. Of course Iowa would want RBY, Mark Hall, and Gable Steveson. So would very top team (and some middling teams). But they may not get them due to their city, university, or program being unwelcoming to black athletes or even being perceived as unwelcoming. 

[Le duke 84]

It's possible that two things are true. Of course Iowa would want RBY, Mark Hall, and Gable Steveson. So would very top team (and some middling teams). But they may not get them due to their city, university, or program being unwelcoming to black athletes or even being perceived as unwelcoming. 

That’s what I’m guessing is going on here. Iowa (T&T) are almost certainly recruiting young, promising black wrestlers.

But, for whatever reasons, they take their visits and decide to accept scholarships elsewhere. I’m guessing there are few black wrestlers at Iowa because there are few/no black wrestlers at Iowa. If you’re Beau Bartlett and see RBY, Starocci, Mark Hall, Aaron Brooks and Kerkvliet in the room, I have to imagine you’d feel more at ease than if you visited the 2019-2020 Iowa room. And so, it keeps going that way. They’ll have one young African American wrestler this year; we’ll see if that helps them bring in more talent overall.

And, yes, those 8 banners from the last 9 complete seasons help a decision maker, too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[headache 125]

22 minutes ago, NJDan said:

It's possible that two things are true. Of course Iowa would want RBY, Mark Hall, and Gable Steveson. So would very top team (and some middling teams). But they may not get them due to their city, university, or program being unwelcoming to black athletes or even being perceived as unwelcoming. 

Probably the campus squirrel hunting. 

 

But seriously, for a state with one of the lower percentage of black residences in the country, the University of Iowa has an outlandish tradition in welcoming minorities.

First woman in the entire nation to earn a law degree - 1873

G. Alexander Clark - first black in the United States to earn a law degree - 1879

Believed to be the first black varsity athlete ever - Frank Holbrook 1895

The first black All-American football player Duke Slater - 1921

 The first black NCAA wrestling champion - Simon Roberts 1956

 

The University of Iowa is not perfect, but the school tradition for welcoming blacks and minorities is well know - at least in Iowa. But then again, wrestlers hunting rabbits and squirrels on campus is the quick take I guess.

[Plasmodium 1,596]

I wonder which stage of the recruiting process goes wrong for Iowa.   It is not the rural nature of Iowa City since other sports recruit diverse teams.  Maybe TnT can't tone it down in the living room.  I've heard Iowa doesn't award full scholarships, so that might play a role.  Also, as others have mentioned, I imagine freshly tanned rabbit skin hats aren't as attractive as a Yankees flat bill to everyone. 

[jchapman 1,092]

17 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

I imagine freshly tanned rabbit skin hats aren't as attractive as a Yankees flat bill to everyone. 

Wow

[Alwayswrestling 195]

What a cry baby thread in almost every way.  People making assumption about stuff they do not have a clue about.

[TLS62pa 47]

I don't think you can fault Iowa much on their state demographics, where the population is almost 91% white. African American students make u 3% of the student population. Hispanics make up 7.1% of the student population. A PoC is just not going to feel surrounded by people like them in Iowa City. Plus, it's Iowa City. How many PoC's are going to go out of their way to go to school at Iowa for reasons outside of athletics and/or academic focuses/scholarships? Remember, there aren't that many PoC's in Iowa's population, so majority would be coming from outside. This is not to say that there is 0 racism on campus, but I honestly believe it probably isn't dramatically worse than many other schools across the US with small minority populations outside of the west coast/north east. 

I see the lack of PoC's on Iowa's team as more of a correlation to local populations rather than a causation of. Doesn't mean the Iowa can't do better, but this discussion is only stemming from the football program's current issues.  I don't think there's reason to start a fire where there is one. 

[TFBJR 382]

On 7/30/2020 at 9:20 AM, Class said:

Anyone who read the article(s) should now have some knowledge of how blacks are treated within the athletic department and it doesn’t appear to be very good.

x

Edited July 31, 2020 by TFBJR
No sense casting pearls

[dman115 128]

2 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

I wonder which stage of the recruiting process goes wrong for Iowa.   It is not the rural nature of Iowa City since other sports recruit diverse teams.  Maybe TnT can't tone it down in the living room.  I've heard Iowa doesn't award full scholarships, so that might play a role.  Also, as others have mentioned, I imagine freshly tanned rabbit skin hats aren't as attractive as a Yankees flat bill to everyone. 

Wow....that is about as racist a stereotype as there is

[1032004 873]

Moody may not have gotten a scholarship, but maybe he was promised some slush fund money after graduation right? :-)

[ShakaAloha 95]

4 hours ago, Le duke said:

That’s what I’m guessing is going on here. Iowa (T&T) are almost certainly recruiting young, promising black wrestlers.

But, for whatever reasons, they take their visits and decide to accept scholarships elsewhere. I’m guessing there are few black wrestlers at Iowa because there are few/no black wrestlers at Iowa. If you’re Beau Bartlett and see RBY, Starocci, Mark Hall, Aaron Brooks and Kerkvliet in the room, I have to imagine you’d feel more at ease than if you visited the 2019-2020 Iowa room. And so, it keeps going that way. They’ll have one young African American wrestler this year; we’ll see if that helps them bring in more talent overall.

And, yes, those 8 banners from the last 9 complete seasons help a decision maker, too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The top five recruits for 2021 are: Richie Figs, Shane van Ness, Alex Facundo, Keyonte Hamilton, and Cael Valencia.  At least four of these guys are minorities.  How hard is Iowa going after them?

I am pretty sure that Figs, van Ness, and Hamilton did not/do not have Iowa in their final schools.  They are also a long shot with Valencia, although he may still be listing them as "under consideration."   

Is Iowa recruiting any of the top African American/minority kids in the HS classes of 2022 and 2023?

[Plasmodium 1,596]

1 hour ago, dman115 said:

Wow....that is about as racist a stereotype as there is

Why?  Yankee flat bills are common to everyone in urban areas.

[jchapman 1,092]

18 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

Why?  Yankee flat bills are common to everyone in urban areas.

Everyone in all urban areas?  What about rabbit pelts, where are those common with everyone?

[jchapman 1,092]

1 hour ago, ShakaAloha said:

The top five recruits for 2021 are: Richie Figs, Shane van Ness, Alex Facundo, Keyonte Hamilton, and Cael Valencia.  At least four of these guys are minorities.  How hard is Iowa going after them?

I am pretty sure that Figs, van Ness, and Hamilton did not/do not have Iowa in their final schools.  They are also a long shot with Valencia, although he may still be listing them as "under consideration."   

Is Iowa recruiting any of the top African American/minority kids in the HS classes of 2022 and 2023?

Just because they are not in the kids’ top schools doesn’t mean they didn’t go after them. Also, fitting roster spots plays a role too.

[ShakaAloha 95]

2 minutes ago, jchapman said:

Just because they are not in the kids’ top schools doesn’t mean they didn’t go after them. Also, fitting roster spots plays a role too.

It seems like van Ness would fit into that line-up nicely at 141/149.  Eierman and Murin are both upperclassmen.

125/133 are also up for grabs when Figs would be a true frosh.

Hamilton could take over for Cass at heavy in a few years.

[jchapman 1,092]

4 minutes ago, ShakaAloha said:

It seems like van Ness would fit into that line-up nicely at 141/149.  Eierman and Murin are both upperclassmen.

125/133 are also up for grabs when Figs would be a true frosh.

Hamilton could take over for Cass at heavy in a few years.

Since I don’t see any Dutch wrestlers in Iowa’s roster, van Ness would be a huge get.

[VakAttack 2,704]

2 hours ago, ShakaAloha said:

The top five recruits for 2021 are: Richie Figs, Shane van Ness, Alex Facundo, Keyonte Hamilton, and Cael Valencia.  At least four of these guys are minorities.  How hard is Iowa going after them?

I am pretty sure that Figs, van Ness, and Hamilton did not/do not have Iowa in their final schools.  They are also a long shot with Valencia, although he may still be listing them as "under consideration."   

Is Iowa recruiting any of the top African American/minority kids in the HS classes of 2022 and 2023?

Another example of just excluding evidence that doesn't fit what you already want to believe.

[funnyfletcher 23]

8 hours ago, headache said:

You have been told time and time again that Iowa has been recruiting the elite level black wrestlers, yet you ignore this and continue to insinuate that the Brands don't want black wrestlers. At this point I'm not so sure you're not just trolling.

Iowa went hard after John Meeks, RBY, Mark Hall, and Gable Steveson. They were top priority recruits and Iowa had their money on the table. 

And then, you invent some incoherent criterion that allows you to claim that black Iowa wrestlers Marion, Cooper, and Moody don't count as black recruits. Absolutely bizarre. Plus you ignore Aaron Cashman and the many Hispanic minorities Iowa hand recruited. 

You're making no sense.

 

Iowa also went after Sa'Derian Perry when he was transferring. 

[Idaho 790]

9 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

This is a taboo subject for some.  That doesn't make it irrelevant.

Interesting differences between Iowa football and wrestling.  Doubtful a B10 football team  could stay in a game without some diversity. So they do what is necessary to field a competitive team. They get well deserved flack for being unable to deal with diverse people.  The wrestling team, on the other hand, is more than competitive without diversity.  So they aren't pressured to be multicultural and then don't get flack for being unable to handle diversity. This also has its shortcomiings, but nobody cares about that.

What evidence is there that Iowa wrestling is “unable to handle diversity”? 

[jp157 77]

You know, as I’ve stated before. There are concrete ways ways in which race is an issue in wrestling. There are concrete problems which have and do impair the growth of the sport. There are both empirical and non empirical ways that this can be addressed. From things as simple as not dissing the 2-piece to honest looks at certain perceptions and assumptions. As well as growing the sport outside traditional places. Hell, just actually acknowledging Burroughs for his technical brilliance instead of spouting about just his “athleticism” and “grit”. Is a healthy start. That is actually why this whole thread is irritating.

The fact that those issues are there is what makes “gestures” like Class’s, pun intended, whole premise classless. While I’m sure he is very self satisfied and happy to brag to his friends about how “woke” he is, and very thrilled at his imaginary reddit gold and get to claim himself an “ally”. All he’s doing is trying to create a witch hunt that goes after “easy” targets. And In a that one can easily “find” things wrong. 
 

Not only is it disingenuous.. it’s lazy. Really really lazy. Not only that it comes across to anyone on the fence or people who lean to the left but don’t put up with bull**** against you as well. Due to how slimy and disingenuous it looks and is.

People like you actually make it harder to talk about actual issues because one gets lumped in with disingenuous virtue signalers like yourself.

Oh and to the people making the flat bill and hunting comments. Whilst I know reddit tells you otherwise. And it’s both easy and lazy to assume everyone is Either an enlightened liberal or evil radical Joanne and Cletus. Believe it or not, there are far more people on the fence than you think. So every wannabe smug, condescending, douche comment takes that person that might be willing to discuss and listen or even, at the very least abstain from voting a certain way.. drives them away. Cause, while The Orange Tweeter May not be the best available leader, even to them. At least he’s not being condescending or acting smug superior and enlightened because you happen to live in the country or hunt.