Iowa Hawkeyes -- Culture with black athletes

[Plasmodium 1,596]

53 minutes ago, Idaho said:

What evidence is there that Iowa wrestling is “unable to handle diversity”? 

None - and they don't get criticized for that.

[Plasmodium 1,596]

2 hours ago, jchapman said:

Everyone in all urban areas?  What about rabbit pelts, where are those common with everyone?

Yes.  Every person between the ages of 14 and 21 in every metropolitan area over the population of 250,000 people is required by law to have a Yankee flat bill.   Who said anything about common rabbit skin hats? 

[ShakaAloha 95]

On 7/31/2020 at 11:13 AM, VakAttack said:

Another example of just excluding evidence that doesn't fit what you already want to believe.

How am I excluding it if I mentioned it?

Furthermore, I think we can all agree that right now it's an ASU-Oregon State-Penn State battle for him, and Iowa is a longshot for his commitment.

[dman115 128]

So...is hokey racists?   Is golf racists?  Why stop at wrestling?? 

[jchapman 1,092]

2 hours ago, dman115 said:

So...is hokey racists? 

Edited August 3, 2020 by jchapman

[VakAttack 2,704]

11 hours ago, ShakaAloha said:

How am I excluding it if I mentioned it?

Furthermore, I think we can all agree that right now it's an ASU-Oregon State-Penn State battle for him, and Iowa is a longshot for his commitment.

Because you are mentioning it only to try diminish it.  "Yeah, they're mentioned in recruiting this minority wrestler, but it's not real, so are they really recruiting minority wrestlers?"

[Cementmixer103 51]

On 7/29/2020 at 11:12 AM, Antitroll2828 said:

Nyc literally has like 3 wrestling teams, they honestly probably have more professional sport teams than high school wrestling teams .

 

I’m not sure the Newark schools have wrestling anymore , 

Uhh..

Actually, the PSAL (public school athletic league) in NYC has 75 high school wrestling teams.

The CHSAA (Catholic schools) have about 12- 15.. I'm unsure of the exact number. The privates have another few

 

Newark has St. Benedict's prep and to be fair, most towns in NJ usually have 1 team, 2 at most per township. And it's usually a public and a Catholic school. Newark isn't a huge area, but St. Ben's used to be pretty successful. St. Peter's Prep in Jersey City, also pretty successful.

 

Edited August 3, 2020 by Cementmixer103

[Cementmixer103 51]

Yeah.. I wanted to post again because I need to ask you, @antitroll2828 , where'd you get the number 3, in regards to NYC schools with wrestling?  Such a discredit to all the great work Beat the Streets has done for wrestling in the city. 

You should use Google next time.

[Idaho 790]

9 hours ago, Cementmixer103 said:

Yeah.. I wanted to post again because I need to ask you, @antitroll2828 , where'd you get the number 3, in regards to NYC schools with wrestling?  Such a discredit to all the great work Beat the Streets has done for wrestling in the city. 

You should use Google next time.

I'm pretty sure nobody out of NY could beat David Taylor though. 

[Antitroll2828 560]

9 hours ago, Cementmixer103 said:

Uhh..

Actually, the PSAL (public school athletic league) in NYC has 75 high school wrestling teams.

The CHSAA (Catholic schools) have about 12- 15.. I'm unsure of the exact number. The privates have another few

 

Newark has St. Benedict's prep and to be fair, most towns in NJ usually have 1 team, 2 at most per township. And it's usually a public and a Catholic school. Newark isn't a huge area, but St. Ben's used to be pretty successful. St. Peter's Prep in Jersey City, also pretty successful.

 

 

9 hours ago, Cementmixer103 said:

Yeah.. I wanted to post again because I need to ask you, @antitroll2828 , where'd you get the number 3, in regards to NYC schools with wrestling?  Such a discredit to all the great work Beat the Streets has done for wrestling in the city. 

You should use Google next time.

You should go a little further then a quick google search because while schools offer wrestling you’ll find plenty of teams that have just a few kids, maybe half a lineup and it’s like that in most of the city, and now after coronavirus you’ll see less schools offer it.

I'm not discrediting beat the streets it’s helped tremendously, but if you talk to local coaches and athletes, if your a high level wrestler it’s best for you to leave the city and go to Long Island or upstate 

 

 Newark is by far the largest city in NJ and st. Benedict’s Is a private school who used to get half their roster from another country lol idk if that’s still the case and other then that Newark has a ton of schools and I can remember maybe 1 kid from Newark westside making it states and that’s over the last 20 yrs or so.

 

the city that does it right is Irvington, 15 years ago you wouldn’t want to drive past Irvington on the highway never mind have your kid go there now over the past few years they brought in solid coaching and require any kid who wants to play football to wrestle for atleast a season so now they have huge numbers in the programs, I believed qualified for team states , sent multiple wrestlers to AC for states and during all this has had great graduation numbers for the tea,  and that really helped the high school and it’s in much better shape now then it was but unfortunately Irvington is the only city school I’ve found in nj that’s made a commitment to building wrestling, most other cities (Camden, Paterson , Newark, some of the smaller cities along the Delaware ) all have seen less numbers or less wrestling programs all together .

 

[HurricaneWrestling2 581]

On 7/31/2020 at 6:06 PM, jp157 said:

You know, as I’ve stated before. There are concrete ways ways in which race is an issue in wrestling. There are concrete problems which have and do impair the growth of the sport. There are both empirical and non empirical ways that this can be addressed. From things as simple as not dissing the 2-piece to honest looks at certain perceptions and assumptions. As well as growing the sport outside traditional places. Hell, just actually acknowledging Burroughs for his technical brilliance instead of spouting about just his “athleticism” and “grit”. Is a healthy start. That is actually why this whole thread is irritating.

The fact that those issues are there is what makes “gestures” like Class’s, pun intended, whole premise classless. While I’m sure he is very self satisfied and happy to brag to his friends about how “woke” he is, and very thrilled at his imaginary reddit gold and get to claim himself an “ally”. All he’s doing is trying to create a witch hunt that goes after “easy” targets. And In a that one can easily “find” things wrong. 
 

Not only is it disingenuous.. it’s lazy. Really really lazy. Not only that it comes across to anyone on the fence or people who lean to the left but don’t put up with bull**** against you as well. Due to how slimy and disingenuous it looks and is.

People like you actually make it harder to talk about actual issues because one gets lumped in with disingenuous virtue signalers like yourself.

Oh and to the people making the flat bill and hunting comments. Whilst I know reddit tells you otherwise. And it’s both easy and lazy to assume everyone is Either an enlightened liberal or evil radical Joanne and Cletus. Believe it or not, there are far more people on the fence than you think. So every wannabe smug, condescending, douche comment takes that person that might be willing to discuss and listen or even, at the very least abstain from voting a certain way.. drives them away. Cause, while The Orange Tweeter May not be the best available leader, even to them. At least he’s not being condescending or acting smug superior and enlightened because you happen to live in the country or hunt. 
 

 

I'm offended by your characterization of the late great Cletus Tucker as an "evil radical."  He was just a hard-working hog farmer doing the best he could.

Other than the one instance cited above, however, I wholeheartedly agree with your post.  Bravo!

[jp157 77]

25 minutes ago, HurricaneWrestling2 said:

I'm offended by your characterization of the late great Cletus Tucker as an "evil radical."  He was just a hard-working hog farmer doing the best he could.

Other than the one instance cited above, however, I wholeheartedly agree with your post.  Bravo!

Omg! I totally forgot about the poster cletus tucker lol. 

Edited August 3, 2020 by jp157
Grammar

[AHamilton 530]

On 7/31/2020 at 3:52 PM, Plasmodium said:

Why?  Yankee flat bills are common to everyone in urban areas.

Nothing surprises me that comes out of this guy's keyboard.  A few weeks ago, he was poking fun at a D3 champ who died last October.  I gave him a chance to perhaps delete his post and he came back with more quips about the deceased wrestler. 

Pure troll scum.

[Cementmixer103 51]

2 hours ago, Antitroll2828 said:

 

You should go a little further then a quick google search because while schools offer wrestling you’ll find plenty of teams that have just a few kids, maybe half a lineup and it’s like that in most of the city, and now after coronavirus you’ll see less schools offer it.

I'm not discrediting beat the streets it’s helped tremendously, but if you talk to local coaches and athletes, if your a high level wrestler it’s best for you to leave the city and go to Long Island or upstate 

 

 Newark is by far the largest city in NJ and st. Benedict’s Is a private school who used to get half their roster from another country lol idk if that’s still the case and other then that Newark has a ton of schools and I can remember maybe 1 kid from Newark westside making it states and that’s over the last 20 yrs or so.

 

the city that does it right is Irvington, 15 years ago you wouldn’t want to drive past Irvington on the highway never mind have your kid go there now over the past few years they brought in solid coaching and require any kid who wants to play football to wrestle for atleast a season so now they have huge numbers in the programs, I believed qualified for team states , sent multiple wrestlers to AC for states and during all this has had great graduation numbers for the tea,  and that really helped the high school and it’s in much better shape now then it was but unfortunately Irvington is the only city school I’ve found in nj that’s made a commitment to building wrestling, most other cities (Camden, Paterson , Newark, some of the smaller cities along the Delaware ) all have seen less numbers or less wrestling programs all together .

 

I wrestled here and still live here. 

No coach would tell their stud to go to a different school. They want that kid to help their program and make them look better. But yes, wrestling in Long Island is the best in the state 

High school wrestling is alive and well in NYC. Most schools have full teams. Many have JV teams as well. The best have Jv, Varsity and girls teams. 

St Benedict's got 6 guys total from Mongolia over 3 different graduating classes. 1 left due to being homesick ... I wrestled there. Minga Batsukh, Mogi Battar.. Then Bagna, the twins, and finally Ugi. You are showing you like to exaggerate. First nyc with "literally 3 schools".. 

Then I say they have 75 and you said they dont have full teams. Now half of st.Bens line up is from Mongolia. Id hate to think you go around saying these things as fact and people believe you. 

 

 

[Cementmixer103 51]

And while Newark maybe hasn't sent even 1 kid to the NJ state tournament. They've certainly sent quite a few to National Preps.

I don't know the exact percentage but when I was at St Benedict's it was about 90% African-American. The wrestling team was ALL local kids with the exception of the Mongolians they brought in and again, they were not all in the lineup/school  together at the same time.

 

We have a high school girls league here in NYC too. We were way ahead of the rest of the country with that.

Id say most of the teams here have full lineups. 

 

Edited August 3, 2020 by Cementmixer103

[Plasmodium 1,596]

2 hours ago, AHamilton said:

Nothing surprises me that comes out of this guy's keyboard.  A few weeks ago, he was poking fun at a D3 champ who died last October.  I gave him a chance to perhaps delete his post and he came back with more quips about the deceased wrestler. 

Pure troll scum.

Are you referring to me?

[JBluegill133 275]

On 7/30/2020 at 6:34 PM, HokieHWT said:

Here are the Black NCAA Champs since 2007:

2019 Lewis-VT

2018 None

2017 Hall- PSU; Cox- MIZZU

2016 Garrett-CORN; Martin- tOSU; Cox- MIZZU

2015 Gadson- ISU

2014 Ruth- PSU; Cox- MIZZU

2013 Maple- OU; Ruth- PSU

2012 Ruth- PSU

2011 Robles- ASU (although PAC-12 network did a spotlight on him for the LatinX community, the promotion of his movie mentions him being “black wrestler”); Jenkins- ASU; Burroughs- NEB

2010 None

2009 Caldwell- NCST; Burroughs- NEB

2008 Davis- PSU

2007 None

what this tells me is PSU is so good because they recruit black wrestlers, Iowa should do that too.

 

This has actually been a really respectful and interesting conversation, so kudos to you all.  I agree that we are only getting half of the story if we are only talking about black athletes that TNT did not land.  What would make this a more balanced study is if we could define what, "heavy recruiting" was (maybe contacts athlete atleast once per week for 50 consecutive weeks or something) moderate recruiting  and light recruiting etc. etc.   then go back and conduct a survey with the names listed above (or the top 5 black wrestlers coming out of high school each year) and see if there was a trend of TNT not actively going after them....then we might see something...although I do not think this would be the case.  I am doing this off the top of my head during my lunch break so naturally this is not a perfect scenario, but hopefully you get what I am going for.

[uncle bernard 384]

Can't believe this thread is still going. Iowa has recruited just about every high profile black wrestler in recent years. They invested tons into Gable. He has even said he planned on going until his older brother ended up at Minnesota (Iowa recruited him as well). They recruited Mark Hall heavily. They didn't just recruit RBY, but famously made a serious play at stealing him away from Penn State after he already committed by having Gilman choose him as his training partner for worlds. They also recruited Sa'derion Perry when he was looking for a new home.

As others have mentioned, they have a strong history with latino wrestlers as well, and not just the ones who wrestled for them.They heavily recruited both Valencia's for example.

The only big name they didn't recruit to my knowledge would be Brooks. Ironically, his dad, who posts on bwi and hr occasionally, may have given a good answer to this question. One of his sons attended a juco in Iowa and hated it, not because he experienced overwhelming racism, but because he found Iowa boring. 

For the people trying to insinuate there's a major problem here, how many guys can you name that they should have been recruiting?

[Avashadt 4]

19 hours ago, dman115 said:

So...is hokey racists?   Is golf racists?  Why stop at wrestling?? 

Is racing racist? (See what I did there?)

[jp157 77]

Don’t feel like quoting. However the New York thing brings up one of the fundamental issues with this whole debate/argument/discussion or whatever you want to call it. Everyone is looking at the “symptoms” of relatively low African American participation in wrestling.  (low numbers at Midwest colleges). No one is looking at.. actual causes and reasons.
 

To the person rambling on about the “prowess of the private schools in New York City. I’m willing to bet money that the person was referring to public schools with a lower avg. socio economic class than the average student at a private school. How is the wrestling numbers and participants at your local inner city school? And if so, how have they filled up their line ups? Have they actually elevated the wrestling beyond the youth headlock/cowcatcher phase? Are coaches lasting longer than 1-2 years?

Also, I don’t think private schools are the best example to use. Yes I’m aware St. Benedict’s is much more diverse than your avg catholic school. However in general, the normal student there is going to be a better student and easier to deal with than the avg kid at the local public school. 

The fundamental fact is that in the majority of primarily African American dominated schools. Wrestling is not big or non existent. The places that are exceptions to that rule, are just that, exceptions. A quick glance at most of the African American recruits and top wrestlers show that most of them went to prep schools and/or more well to do suburban schools. 
 

Whilst efforts are underway to change that and grow the sport, and more importantly. In an area and demographic that’s new. Some of the things that impede it the most are where the uncomfortable conversations begin. 
 

 

 

 

[Cementmixer103 51]

24 minutes ago, jp157 said:

Don’t feel like quoting. However the New York thing brings up one of the fundamental issues with this whole debate/argument/discussion or whatever you want to call it. Everyone is looking at the “symptoms” of relatively low African American participation in wrestling.  (low numbers at Midwest colleges). No one is looking at.. actual causes and reasons.
 

To the person rambling on about the “prowess of the private schools in New York City. I’m willing to bet money that the person was referring to public schools with a lower avg. socio economic class than the average student at a private school. How is the wrestling numbers and participants at your local inner city school? And if so, how have they filled up their line ups? Have they actually elevated the wrestling beyond the youth headlock/cowcatcher phase? Are coaches lasting longer than 1-2 years?

Also, I don’t think private schools are the best example to use. Yes I’m aware St. Benedict’s is much more diverse than your avg catholic school. However in general, the normal student there is going to be a better student and easier to deal with than the avg kid at the local public school. 

The fundamental fact is that in the majority of primarily African American dominated schools. Wrestling is not big or non existent. The places that are exceptions to that rule, are just that, exceptions. A quick glance at most of the African American recruits and top wrestlers show that most of them went to prep schools and/or more well to do suburban schools. 
 

Whilst efforts are underway to change that and grow the sport, and more importantly. In an area and demographic that’s new. Some of the things that impede it the most are where the uncomfortable conversations begin. 
 

 

 

 

Are you referring to me?

Look.. This whole thread is silly.

The only point I wanted to make is that high school wrestling in NYC is doing well. But. If you were to look at national averages we definitely have a higher rate of minority participation, no doubt due to location. Yes, believe it or not, they can field a full team! Wow! Imagine that? 

I know it's hard for some of you to imagine a team of mostly 14 or 15 african American or lation students BUT.. Get ready for it, it's happening here! Wow. What a world. Unbelievable stuff, huh?

 

Lot of you guys still living in 1960

[1032004 873]

1 hour ago, jp157 said:

 

Whilst efforts are underway to change that and grow the sport, and more importantly. In an area and demographic that’s new. Some of the things that impede it the most are where the uncomfortable conversations begin. 

 

Like what?  

[gimpeltf 1,521]

I used to help with BTS events in NYC. Announcing was always fun. If I had to read 5 bouts, I might easily have 10 different ethnicities and hence pronunciation methods. Sheesh!

[Cementmixer103 51]

1 hour ago, gimpeltf said:

I used to help with BTS events in NYC. Announcing was always fun. If I had to read 5 bouts, I might easily have 10 different ethnicities and hence pronunciation methods. Sheesh!

Very cool. What year(s) if you don't mind me asking? Very possible my name was one of them you announced. 

I wrestled 04 - 06 in NYC before going to St Benedict's

Edited August 4, 2020 by Cementmixer103

[Antitroll2828 560]

2 hours ago, jp157 said:

Don’t feel like quoting. However the New York thing brings up one of the fundamental issues with this whole debate/argument/discussion or whatever you want to call it. Everyone is looking at the “symptoms” of relatively low African American participation in wrestling.  (low numbers at Midwest colleges). No one is looking at.. actual causes and reasons.
 

To the person rambling on about the “prowess of the private schools in New York City. I’m willing to bet money that the person was referring to public schools with a lower avg. socio economic class than the average student at a private school. How is the wrestling numbers and participants at your local inner city school? And if so, how have they filled up their line ups? Have they actually elevated the wrestling beyond the youth headlock/cowcatcher phase? Are coaches lasting longer than 1-2 years?

Also, I don’t think private schools are the best example to use. Yes I’m aware St. Benedict’s is much more diverse than your avg catholic school. However in general, the normal student there is going to be a better student and easier to deal with than the avg kid at the local public school. 

The fundamental fact is that in the majority of primarily African American dominated schools. Wrestling is not big or non existent. The places that are exceptions to that rule, are just that, exceptions. A quick glance at most of the African American recruits and top wrestlers show that most of them went to prep schools and/or more well to do suburban schools. 
 

Whilst efforts are underway to change that and grow the sport, and more importantly. In an area and demographic that’s new. Some of the things that impede it the most are where the uncomfortable conversations begin. 
 

 

 

 

You should have been willing to bet money because you were pretty spot on