B1G Postpones Fall Sports

[dman115 167]

And for this all being a political thing...100% it is and that is very sad!  And it is sad that both sides continue to do it and use every freaking tragedy as a political pawn.  How in the heck did we get here as a country???  We have never had so much information at our finger tips and yet it feels we are dumbererer than ever as a society.  I blame social media, the 2 party system, and the media.

[Lurker 1,458]

12 minutes ago, dman115 said:

And for this all being a political thing...100% it is and that is very sad!  And it is sad that both sides continue to do it and use every freaking tragedy as a political pawn.  How in the heck did we get here as a country???  We have never had so much information at our finger tips and yet it feels we are dumbererer than ever as a society.  I blame social media, the 2 party system, and the media.

Couldn't agree more with this.  We are more focused on fighting with the "other side" than working together to solve problems.  Everyone wants to blame the gov't and media, but its us.  Both of those institutions run on the pulse of the people, to get their clicks and votes.  "we the people" do not want to take any accountability for this mess we are in, it is 100% the fault of government leaders on the other side.

I have a lot of friends overseas and I talk to them about their people, not their government but their people and how they have responded to this pandemic.  And the picture I get it is that it is completely different than what we see here.  Sure not everyone in other countries is in total agreement.  But the joke of the world is not so much our government but our people and how we are behaving.

I don't care what the issue is, until we can get that aspect worked out and be able to once again communicate and work with others even if we don't completely agree with them, nothing is going to bet better.  Doesn't matter who the President is.  That is precisely why i will be skipping the president slot on the ballot this year.  To me that's by far the most important thing and I don't see either one of these candidates doing anything to bring us together.

[PAFAN01 50]

No further comment

Reported coronavirus deaths yesterday:

• France: 0

• United Kingdom: 0

• Canada: 4

• Germany: 6

• Italy: 6

• United States: 1,450

[red blades 263]

But meanwhile, Penn State has a solution: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/penn-state-students-must-sign-covid-waiver-discharging-liability-for-illness-permanent-disability-or-death/ar-BB17SvEY?ocid=msedgntp  (eyeroll)

[jdalu75 101]

I was told 20 years ago in a law course that those waivers don't hold up in court, since one party can not sign away another party's liability.  What they do is discourage the injured party from suing.

 

[Janderson133 16]

2 hours ago, PAFAN01 said:

No further comment

Reported coronavirus deaths yesterday:

• France: 0

• United Kingdom: 0

• Canada: 4

• Germany: 6

• Italy: 6

• United States: 1,450

Again, you have to wonder when the numbers are that far apart, if there is a reporting issue, or a standards issue. Not for nothing, it's entirely possible that the US response has been so incredibly poor as to generate that kind of discrepancy, but the likelihood is slim. As you'll recall, there was a time when Russia was reporting zero COVID cases weeks into the panic.

[red blades 263]

9 minutes ago, Janderson133 said:

Again, you have to wonder when the numbers are that far apart, if there is a reporting issue, or a standards issue. Not for nothing, it's entirely possible that the US response has been so incredibly poor as to generate that kind of discrepancy, but the likelihood is slim. As you'll recall, there was a time when Russia was reporting zero COVID cases weeks into the panic.

The timing is also very different.  It started earlier in Europe, it got really bad much sooner - and then they shut things down.  Similarly, it started earlier and peaked quickly in NY and NJ - but the numbers here have come down and flattened out.  You really need to look at things in a more localized way in the US - nationally the numbers are not so meaningful, because conditions vary so much regionally.

If you look at deaths / million population, that might be a somewhat better indicator how effective (or not) the response has been in different countries.  But I suspect there is also some manipulation of numbers by some governments.

[Janderson133 16]

34 minutes ago, red blades said:

The timing is also very different.  It started earlier in Europe, it got really bad much sooner - and then they shut things down.  Similarly, it started earlier and peaked quickly in NY and NJ - but the numbers here have come down and flattened out.  You really need to look at things in a more localized way in the US - nationally the numbers are not so meaningful, because conditions vary so much regionally.

If you look at deaths / million population, that might be a somewhat better indicator how effective (or not) the response has been in different countries.  But I suspect there is also some manipulation of numbers by some governments.

That's a fair point, but I'm not sure the numbers bear it out. As an example, (I'm in WA), we have more new cases per day than NY, despite an aggressive response, a functionally shut down state, and a major city (Seattle) that's been held up as a beacon for "following the science". Similarly, Hawaii is experiencing a 250% month over month spike in cases, during which time the state has enforced a mandatory two week quarantine on any visitors - and it's an ISLAND.

Beyond that - I appreciate the concept of looking at deaths per million (or 100k in this case), but by that standard, NY and NJ are far and away the worst states to live in (NY - 168 deaths per 100k, NJ - 178 deaths per 100k) as compared to FL (39 deaths per 100k). I mean, the curve is flattening - if you kill enough patients, eventually the curve will flatten and disappear.

[jp157 171]

You know. I’m absolutely sick of people blaming teachers or schools for this lack of education and willful ignorance and stupidity. And before anyone goes “WeLL tEaCH rEleVAnt ToPICs”. They actually have been trying to teach things like financial literacy. The kids blow it off too. Add in parents saying stupid things like “well y’all know school never did anything for me so why should my kid” and you get the current stupidity. 
 

To be honest, I just kinda see this patching onto conspiracies and anti-science the natural result of Christianity becoming the “faux pas”. It’s too hard for some to believe in science and and the randomness of the universe, so their new higher power is the “Illuminati” or whatever. 

[AnklePicker 546]

6 hours ago, dman115 said:

Prove that to me!!  How is it if I do everything the CDC says to do I am putting you and your family at risk??  Tell me how if you are so worried about others that may not follow the CDC recommendations you and your family can't just stay home?  What makes YOUR right to go out and about over another person's right?  Call them jerks for not wearing a mask every second of the day.  Call them insensitive and say they don't care about their fellow person because they want to go out for dinner and/or drinks.  But what makes you the judger of someone else's rights are less important than yours.  Your feeling of it being your right to go outside and go to the grocery store and to Home Depot, etc. is just as much as someone else's right to go out to dinner, to go out for drinks, to open their small business, to travel, and yes, to not wear a mask (again I wear mine).  Don't give me the overblown total emotional triggered statement that I have any affect on you and your family...because if you truly felt that way then stay freaking home!!  I look forward to you not addressing my points and for you to start using those overdramatic statements.

Another thing that never seems to be addressed and I have said it many times...is this about stopping the spread, or slowing the spread??

You put my family at risk by spewing garbage about this being a political thing that will vanish once the election is over. You were probably saying it would vanish once the warm weather hit weren’t you?  People are dying bud...that’s not political.  The crazy liberals aren’t pulling those strings. Going to the grocery store is a necessity. Going to hang out with your friends at a bar really isn’t. I’m not trying to take away your rights, do what you want. But don’t cry when we don’t have a wrestling season because of your disregard for the virus. That’s exactly why we are in the situation we are in. Maybe had we not liberated the states we’d be right on track. Unfortunately NJ alone still has 500 cases per day and people are still dying daily.  

[AnklePicker 546]

4 hours ago, Janderson133 said:

Again, you have to wonder when the numbers are that far apart, if there is a reporting issue, or a standards issue. Not for nothing, it's entirely possible that the US response has been so incredibly poor as to generate that kind of discrepancy, but the likelihood is slim. As you'll recall, there was a time when Russia was reporting zero COVID cases weeks into the panic.

It’s not slim. I’m not sure where those numbers were from because from what I just looked up France has never had a day recently where they had zero deaths. More like 10-15 per day. In April they were reporting 1,500 per day. Kind of like where NJ was/is.  Problem is in NJ we have 9 million people and France has 86 million. We have done a horrendous job with this. That’s just the cold hard facts. 

Edited August 13, 2020 by AnklePicker

[BobbyGribbs 88]

So weird, all these numbers flying around. I am enjoying the show here. But if you are going to cite numbers please add the link so I can check it out. Just helps, thanks in advance. Ok back to the wrestling. Is anyone hearing anything about moving the NCAA season?

also since we are talking about Big10 cancelling fall sports. Does it seem a little hypocritical for the commissioner to cancel but yet his son is still practicing at Miss. St. and plans to play? Better yet can we get some visibility into why the entire football sales on was cancelled 5 days after posting schedules, what changed? 

Edited August 13, 2020 by BobbyGribbs

[AnklePicker 546]

22 minutes ago, BobbyGribbs said:

So weird, all these numbers flying around. I am enjoying the show here. But if you are going to cite numbers please add the link so I can check it out. Just helps, thanks in advance. Ok back to the wrestling. Is anyone hearing anything about moving the NCAA season?

also since we are talking about Big10 cancelling fall sports. Does it seem a little hypocritical for the commissioner to cancel but yet his son is still practicing at Miss. St. and plans to play? Better yet can we get some visibility into why the entire football sales on was cancelled 5 days after posting schedules, what changed? 

All my numbers are from Wikipedia. 
 

Yes there is a lot of noise about a shortened season starting Jan 1st. 
 

5 big ten players developing myocarditis due to Covid played a part in the change. 

[AnklePicker 546]

Just now, AnklePicker said:

All my numbers are from Wikipedia.  Just google any country and Covid and their graphs will appear. 
 

Yes there is a lot of noise about a shortened season starting Jan 1st. 
 

5 big ten players developing myocarditis due to Covid played a part in the change. 

 

[dman115 167]

10 hours ago, AnklePicker said:

You put my family at risk by spewing garbage about this being a political thing that will vanish once the election is over. You were probably saying it would vanish once the warm weather hit weren’t you?  People are dying bud...that’s not political.  The crazy liberals aren’t pulling those strings. Going to the grocery store is a necessity. Going to hang out with your friends at a bar really isn’t. I’m not trying to take away your rights, do what you want. But don’t cry when we don’t have a wrestling season because of your disregard for the virus. That’s exactly why we are in the situation we are in. Maybe had we not liberated the states we’d be right on track. Unfortunately NJ alone still has 500 cases per day and people are still dying daily.  

Wow....just wow...how about go read Lurker's last post and then take a day off and reflect??  SHM

Edited August 13, 2020 by dman115
So the grammer police don't attack

[red blades 263]

9 hours ago, BobbyGribbs said:

So weird, all these numbers flying around. I am enjoying the show here. But if you are going to cite numbers please add the link so I can check it out.

This one gives some interesting breakdowns - by country, by state, and even down to the county in some areas: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

This one may be more authoritative, (seems to be cited in other sources): https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

[Lurker 1,458]

26 minutes ago, red blades said:

This one gives some interesting breakdowns - by country, by state, and even down to the county in some areas: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

This one may be more authoritative, (seems to be cited in other sources): https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

I've been following worldometers since February, well before we started locking down here in the US.  In my opinion, its not good practice to base our decisions (whether it be our own personal decisions or institutional) on day to day or in some cases even week to week exact numbers: there's lags in reporting, there's false results, there's lost data (we're talking massive amounts of data transfer between multiple agencies on a daily basis), and yes I'm sure there's some corruption to some extent.  So the day to day numbers are not going to be 100% accurate on how many actually tested positive that day, and how many actually died that day.  They're just simply going to be off a few here or there.  That's why I believe the trends are much more important to follow.

[AnklePicker 546]

2 hours ago, dman115 said:

Wow....just wow...how about go read Lurker's last post and then take a day off and reflect??  SHM

I read his post. Disagree completely. Of course it’s on us but when our president tells states to liberate against their own governors orders that has tremendous influence. 

[Lurker 1,458]

16 minutes ago, AnklePicker said:

I read his post. Disagree completely. Of course it’s on us but when our president tells states to liberate against their own governors orders that has tremendous influence. 

We can only control our own behavior, we cannot control the president's.  Just like he cannot control our day to day life and decisions.  We are responsible for our own actions.....nobody else.  We can talk all day about the federal management of this, and on many points I will agree it has been mismanaged at the federal level.  But at the end of the day we are responsible for the decisions we make each day, and we are in this mess much more because of our individual decisions, not all, but we the people carry most of the burden.  People argue "they should have kept the bars shut"  okay may be.  But we still make the decisions to pack them in...along with the beaches, and the bike rallies, and the "corona parties", etc etc etc.  Continuing to argue with each other over who's to blame is far far less productive than deciding as a people we are going to work together to get through this.  Would you completely disagree with that?

[AnklePicker 546]

2 minutes ago, Lurker said:

We can only control our own behavior, we cannot control the president's.  Just like he cannot control our day to day life and decisions.  We are responsible for our own actions.....nobody else.  We can talk all day about the federal management of this, and on many points I will agree it has been mismanaged at the federal level.  But at the end of the day we are responsible for the decisions we make each day, and we are in this mess much more because of our individual decisions, not all, but we the people carry most of the burden.  People argue "they should have kept the bars shut"  okay may be.  But we still make the decisions to pack them in...along with the beaches, and the bike rallies, and the "corona parties", etc etc etc.  Continuing to argue with each other over who's to blame is far far less productive than deciding as a people we are going to work together to get through this.  Would you completely disagree with that?

With all due respect I’m not sure what you’re talking about. Our governors make a bunch of policy that controls our lives. Like mandating masks in a store. I can obviously control what I do but the only way to control what others do is through policy and that’s the issue.  We are all in this together it’s not an individual thing. And what ours leaders say, especially our president for many, has a ton of influence over what they feel is acceptable behavior. How do we just decide as a people we are going to work through this?  It’s a macro thing. It requires policy that affects everyone to make change. 

[Lurker 1,458]

1 minute ago, AnklePicker said:

With all due respect I’m not sure what you’re talking about. Our governors make a bunch of policy that controls our lives. Like mandating masks in a store. I can obviously control what I do but the only way to control what others do is through policy and that’s the issue.  We are all in this together it’s not an individual thing. And what ours leaders say, especially our president for many, has a ton of influence over what they feel is acceptable behavior. How do we just decide as a people we are going to work through this?  It’s a macro thing. It requires policy that affects everyone to make change. 

Drugs are illeagal....does that mean we the people all make the decisions to not use drugs?

Rape is illeagal.......have we the people decided we are not going to rape people anymore?  Some studies estimate a sexual assault happens once every minute, minute and a half.

What I am talking about is...yes government is in position to produce and implement policy, but at the end of the day that does not control our decisions on what we do.  Nobody controls what what we do but us, and nobody should want it any other way.  You bring up masks......have you not seen all of the fighting that has gone on in this country over whether or not "you can make me wear a mask" when i go into the store? Have you seen the mass numbers of people that wear a mask walking into a store that has a mandate, then take it off as soon as they get by the guy checking masks?

How do we just decide as a people?  Just like that.  We decide ourselves that we are going to stop with all this BS that is digging us in a deeper hole.  When individuals make the decision that they are no longer going to participate in this BS, we start working together.  And then we demand that of our government leaders by not rewarding them for that behavior on election day.  That's how we make the change.  The government, and the media, run on the pulse of the people...that's how they get their clicks and their votes.  If we change, they will change.  Waiting for them is taking all of the power and control of your life and decisions and handing it over to the government.  

I guess at the end of the day, this debate you and I are in depends on how strongly you believe in and practice "Of the people, by the people, for the people".  I for one believe in it strongly and therefore refuse to blame a president or governor or whoever on my decisions on whether or not I'm going to wear a mask in a store (mandated or not), go to a crowded bar, go to a crowded beach......or find other ways to get me and my family out and about and enjoying life while still doing the things we need to do as a people to get control of this thing.  That decision each day lies on nobody but ourselves.

 

[AnklePicker 546]

If masks were not required in stores we’d have WAY more people not wearing them. We make things like drugs and rape illegal for a reason.  It curbs behavior.  Why do you think we make things illegal in the first place?  Policy certainly controls our behavior. That’s why we have it. Of course some will always do what they want but again on a macro level it makes a huge difference. Not sure how you can possibly argue otherwise. 

[Lurker 1,458]

3 minutes ago, AnklePicker said:

  Policy certainly controls our behavior. That’s why we have it. Of course some will always do what they want but again on a macro level it makes a huge difference. Not sure how you can possibly argue otherwise. 

You argued it yourself.  "of course some will always do what they want".  That right there proves that policy does not control our behavior, and how I can possibly argue otherwise.  If policy controlled our decisions, those some wouldn't do what they wanted to do, they would follow.  They don't because of the decision they make, just like others do because of the decision they make.

 It recommends our behavior, with given consequences should we choose not to follow that recommendation.  We control whether or not we decide to follow them.

[AnklePicker 546]

1 hour ago, Lurker said:

You argued it yourself.  "of course some will always do what they want".  That right there proves that policy does not control our behavior, and how I can possibly argue otherwise.  If policy controlled our decisions, those some wouldn't do what they wanted to do, they would follow.  They don't because of the decision they make, just like others do because of the decision they make.

 It recommends our behavior, with given consequences should we choose not to follow that recommendation.  We control whether or not we decide to follow them.

It’s not a recommendation. If it were there wouldn’t be consequences. 

Edited August 13, 2020 by AnklePicker

[dman115 167]

2 hours ago, Lurker said:

Drugs are illeagal....does that mean we the people all make the decisions to not use drugs?

Rape is illeagal.......have we the people decided we are not going to rape people anymore?  Some studies estimate a sexual assault happens once every minute, minute and a half.

What I am talking about is...yes government is in position to produce and implement policy, but at the end of the day that does not control our decisions on what we do.  Nobody controls what what we do but us, and nobody should want it any other way.  You bring up masks......have you not seen all of the fighting that has gone on in this country over whether or not "you can make me wear a mask" when i go into the store? Have you seen the mass numbers of people that wear a mask walking into a store that has a mandate, then take it off as soon as they get by the guy checking masks?

How do we just decide as a people?  Just like that.  We decide ourselves that we are going to stop with all this BS that is digging us in a deeper hole.  When individuals make the decision that they are no longer going to participate in this BS, we start working together.  And then we demand that of our government leaders by not rewarding them for that behavior on election day.  That's how we make the change.  The government, and the media, run on the pulse of the people...that's how they get their clicks and their votes.  If we change, they will change.  Waiting for them is taking all of the power and control of your life and decisions and handing it over to the government.  

I guess at the end of the day, this debate you and I are in depends on how strongly you believe in and practice "Of the people, by the people, for the people".  I for one believe in it strongly and therefore refuse to blame a president or governor or whoever on my decisions on whether or not I'm going to wear a mask in a store (mandated or not), go to a crowded bar, go to a crowded beach......or find other ways to get me and my family out and about and enjoying life while still doing the things we need to do as a people to get control of this thing.  That decision each day lies on nobody but ourselves.

 

This 10000%!!