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Coach_J

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9 hours ago, wrestfan said:

it usually takes longer than 2 years. there are 2 or 3 methods to appeal and while his lawyers wanted to try something else. they heard the news about the execution. they weren't expecting it this soon at all. also for religious reasons they never execute anybody in this time of the year.

that was kind of a message to everybody (specially non-Iranians) that we don't care about what you say. the more you talk, the less we listen.

few weeks ago there was something similar about 3 other kids (they weren't guilty of murder though) and they eventually stopped the execution, but they probably thought if we do this again, people will consider it as a sign of weakness. and right now considering the current situation they think they can't afford to look "weak"

What else can you be executed for besides murder?

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1 hour ago, Shiraz123 said:

Agree that they didn't want to bow to international pressure but unless I am mistaken the time is still much less than in America to implement the death penalty.

Example: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Ramirez

This guy killed 14 people and was arrested in 1985, he died of cancer in prison still awaiting the death penalty in 2013. 

yes sure, it never takes 2 decades !

but for example it took 8 years for this woman
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahla_Jahed

but of course in "special cases" they can even do it much quicker. for example for this guy one of his appeals was rejected in less than 10 days which was surprising for his lawyers as they say it usually takes months in normal cases. they always bend the rules whenever they want.

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1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

What else can you be executed for besides murder?

rape, dealing/having certain amount of drugs and few other things, but it's mostly (99%) for murder and the drugs, for example when Iran changed the rule about the drugs that lowered the number of executions per year massively
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42634252

but there is one terrible loophole in the rules in Iran, there is a term "Moharebeh" means "waging war against God" so even if you go to the streets and born down some buildings, the judge can consider it as "Moharebeh" and that also faces death penalty. 

Edited by wrestfan

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On 9/14/2020 at 1:26 PM, wrestfan said:

rape, dealing/having certain amount of drugs and few other things, but it's mostly (99%) for murder and the drugs, for example when Iran changed the rule about the drugs that lowered the number of executions per year massively
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42634252

but there is one terrible loophole in the rules in Iran, there is a term "Moharebeh" means "waging war against God" so even if you go to the streets and born down some buildings, the judge can consider it as "Moharebeh" and that also faces death penalty. 

yes. and also for some crimes if the victim's family forgives you (you pay them blood money) you can escape punishment that way. like a former mayor of Tehran that you probably know about. actually not a terrible system, a good way to reduce the number of executions and it gives the power to the victim's family. 

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31 minutes ago, The Genius said:

yes. and also for some crimes if the victim's family forgives you (you pay them blood money) you can escape punishment that way. like a former mayor of Tehran that you probably know about. actually not a terrible system, a good way to reduce the number of executions and it gives the power to the victim's family. 

sure, that's the basic, ( I think in Islam in general, not only in Iran) in case of murder it's always up to the victim's family to forgive or not. in this case for Afkari they didn't . (even though he had two death sentences !!, the second one was more complicated but it didn't come to that)

personally I don't like this , this puts victim's family in a very uncomfortable situation. the problem is if they forgive, the murderer can walk free after only few years in jail. (max 10 years but usually much much shorter) if you put yourself in victim's family position, both options are bad (death penalty or let the murderer walk)

the system usually postpones the execution for so many years, the victim's family usually forgives after few years when they are not that angry anymore. of course they usually "prefer" to not execute but in this case they were in such a hurry which makes things more suspicious.

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Unfortunately, many wrestlers and wrestling fans in Iran support the Iranian regime. Some agree with the regime and some of them have been deceived. I can not speak clearly about this because I live in Iran and I am not interested in going to prison at the moment!

Iranians, like people all over the world, are influenced by the media, and especially the media of the Iranian regime.
So it is natural that some (even in this topic) say that Afkari killed someone, because that is what the Iranian regime says in its media.
You just have to live here to understand what human beings they are. Unfortunately they are everywhere, even in this forum. In Iran, they shout "Death to America" (because they get paid for it), then travel to the United States and gamble with that money in Las Vegas.

sorry for my English, I used Google translate.

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Is the Iranian regime popular in areas outside of major cities?  How about in the cities?  I feel like we only talk about dissatisfaction with the government there.  Surely many people, particularly  religious fundamentalists, are very happy with it.

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8 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

Is the Iranian regime popular in areas outside of major cities?  How about in the cities?  I feel like we only talk about dissatisfaction with the government there.  Surely many people, particularly  religious fundamentalists, are very happy with it.

this is the question nobody can answer perfectly. we never had an accurate poll or something like that. people can only speak based on their own experience. for example everybody in my family and in both my parents family dislike the regime but that doesn't mean everybody in the country hates them as well ! they have their own supporters . I can't give a percentage , nobody can but it's surely less than 50%. probably much less.

but I can say they are much more unpopular in big cities. people are more religious in smaller places and therefore the regime have more supporters in those places. most of Iranian top wrestlers come from small villages so it makes sense if the majority of them at least don't hate the regime. and I have to say being religious is not always equal to supporting the regime. they may support some elements of the regime but not necessarily the whole system.

but one thing is for sure that people in Iran are getting less and less religious . I mean comparing to 20 years ago. and to be honest I don't think "religious fundamentalists" exist in Iran, you NEVER hear an Iranian do a suicidal attack anywhere. I believe even those in power are not religious themselves, (at least not as much as they claim) they just use it as a weapon to stay in power.

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On 9/21/2020 at 8:07 AM, Coach_J said:

Iranian posters, thank you for your bravery and helping us understand an often mysterious part of the world to us.

There is no bravery on my part, I live in the US.

But let me share my point of view.  

You have all seen videos of Iranians stepping on US and Israeli flags  So the perception in the US is that Iranians as a whole hate the US and disrespect the US flag.

Here is a video of a street in a tehran university where the government put the US and Israeli flags in the street so the students would walk on them.  The video shows that most university students went out of their way to avoid stepping on the flag, and when two finally walk on the flags they start jeering them and calling them "dishonorable"

 

This is not a scientific poll, and anecdotal evidence that at least in this university, most students do not support the government policy.

 

 

Edited by irani

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I've worked and trained with Iranian wrestlers over the years since 1978, when I met Abas Arabi Asli, who fled Iran and went first to Czechoslovakia and then to Sweden; he was actually national freestyle champion at 57 kilos in both Czechoslovakia and Sweden.  He was a great guy, warm-hearted and generous, having me stay at his home in Stockholm for the weekend before I went home to the US after training in Sweden a year.  The team doctor I had in Vasteras, Sweden, was Iranian and treated me very well.  I got to know the Iranian staff and fans at the 1995 Worlds in Atlanta and 1996 Olympics--knowledgeable, fair-minded, crazy for wrestling and supportive of great wrestlers from all nations.  In none of my dealings with wrestlers or everyday citizens from Iran have I gleaned the idea that Iranians as whole hate the US.  My personal anecdotal experience says quite the contrary.

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5 hours ago, Coach_J said:

I've worked and trained with Iranian wrestlers over the years since 1978, when I met Abas Arabi Asli, who fled Iran and went first to Czechoslovakia and then to Sweden; he was actually national freestyle champion at 57 kilos in both Czechoslovakia and Sweden.  He was a great guy, warm-hearted and generous, having me stay at his home in Stockholm for the weekend before I went home to the US after training in Sweden a year.  The team doctor I had in Vasteras, Sweden, was Iranian and treated me very well.  I got to know the Iranian staff and fans at the 1995 Worlds in Atlanta and 1996 Olympics--knowledgeable, fair-minded, crazy for wrestling and supportive of great wrestlers from all nations.  In none of my dealings with wrestlers or everyday citizens from Iran have I gleaned the idea that Iranians as whole hate the US.  My personal anecdotal experience says quite the contrary.

Coach J, you nailed it.  You can seldom make a statement about any nationality, religion or race "as a whole"

Imagine if people in other countries watched the Trump rallies and concluced that is how all of America thinks as a whole.  Right or wrong, the people who attend those rallies represent a significant, but non majority of the US population.

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On 9/21/2020 at 12:21 AM, wrestfan said:

but one thing is for sure that people in Iran are getting less and less religious . I mean comparing to 20 years ago. and to be honest I don't think "religious fundamentalists" exist in Iran, you NEVER hear an Iranian do a suicidal attack anywhere. I believe even those in power are not religious themselves, (at least not as much as they claim) they just use it as a weapon to stay in power.

"religious fundamentalist" is not just a suicide bomber. iran has many fundamentlists and not many iranians at all will describe themselves as not muslim or not religious if you ask them.

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1 hour ago, The Genius said:

"religious fundamentalist" is not just a suicide bomber. iran has many fundamentlists and not many iranians at all will describe themselves as not muslim or not religious if you ask them.

Exactly! Fundamentalism is an unwavering attachment to a set of irreducible beliefs. This is integrity. It is only recently that the word has become corrupted and used to describe groups who focus solely on selected scriptures, dogmas, and ideologies to maintain ingroup and outgroup dynamics and pursue political aims based on these dynamics. For example, Daesh, or ISIS, are described as "Islamic Fundamentalists", but Wahhabism is not "fundamental Islam", it is a sect that was started in the 18th Century. Many, if not most Muslims see it as a twisted ideology, a fake Islam. Christians in the US are also labelled "fundamentalist" as if it's a bad thing. This is sad, and it demonstrates a modern fad among many to attack any system of religious beliefs. Following your beliefs in a fundamental way isn't bad. 

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2 hours ago, pa in taiwan said:

Exactly! Fundamentalism is an unwavering attachment to a set of irreducible beliefs. This is integrity. It is only recently that the word has become corrupted and used to describe groups who focus solely on selected scriptures, dogmas, and ideologies to maintain ingroup and outgroup dynamics and pursue political aims based on these dynamics. For example, Daesh, or ISIS, are described as "Islamic Fundamentalists", but Wahhabism is not "fundamental Islam", it is a sect that was started in the 18th Century. Many, if not most Muslims see it as a twisted ideology, a fake Islam. Christians in the US are also labelled "fundamentalist" as if it's a bad thing. This is sad, and it demonstrates a modern fad among many to attack any system of religious beliefs. Following your beliefs in a fundamental way isn't bad. 

Is it integrity if your briefs include hating other people who don’t share your beliefs, sexual orientation, gender, etc?

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On 9/22/2020 at 5:50 PM, pa in taiwan said:

Exactly! Fundamentalism is an unwavering attachment to a set of irreducible beliefs. This is integrity. It is only recently that the word has become corrupted and used to describe groups who focus solely on selected scriptures, dogmas, and ideologies to maintain ingroup and outgroup dynamics and pursue political aims based on these dynamics. For example, Daesh, or ISIS, are described as "Islamic Fundamentalists", but Wahhabism is not "fundamental Islam", it is a sect that was started in the 18th Century. Many, if not most Muslims see it as a twisted ideology, a fake Islam. Christians in the US are also labelled "fundamentalist" as if it's a bad thing. This is sad, and it demonstrates a modern fad among many to attack any system of religious beliefs. Following your beliefs in a fundamental way isn't bad. 

It is in the nature of language to change.  For example, it feels like you are trying to change the nuance of the word integrity.  It is integrity if there is strong conviction to take the moral high ground.  Not religious beliefs.  There is no universal nature to those.  A better word for that is pious.

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On 9/23/2020 at 3:03 AM, irani said:

Here is a recent study on religious beliefs in Iran.   This study supports what @wrestfanasserted

I am not in a position to defend or argue against the validity of the study

https://theprint.in/world/iran-becoming-more-secular-less-religions-new-study-reveals/500224/

 

GAMAAN is a joke and not a credible pollster, they have been widely rebuked by their (more credible) peers

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12 hours ago, The Genius said:

GAMAAN is a joke and not a credible pollster, they have been widely rebuked by their (more credible) peers

I am not in .a position to defend or argue against the validity of the study.

Here is another study https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2020/september/seismic-change-grips-iran-as-population-turns-more-secular-less-religious, at least I believe it's a different study.

 

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