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Cael trolling FloKaren - NLWC event 9/19?

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On 9/2/2020 at 8:57 AM, AnklePicker said:

In my humble opinion flo has done more for the sport than just about anyone or anything in my lifetime.  

This reminds me of the Ship of Theseus.

If we accept your premise...

Who is Flo exactly?  Flo, inc or Flo (the founders/employees that built Flo inc but are now at Rokfin)?

I suspect Flo inc is fighting the legal battle so vigorously because they realize that those going to Rokfin were the key to the wrestling market success and the wrestling market has been the steady business for Flo inc. 

 

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21 minutes ago, JasonBryant said:


I worked for a major daily newspaper with a competitor in the same market. I didn’t have a non-compete. I’ve also worked for two wrestling-centric non-profits and left both of them to take on other wrestling-related media opportunities. No non-compete there either.

Just my experience where I’ve spent the vast majority of my career - had no non-competes.

U of Maryland study found 1 in 5  US workers are bound by non-negotiable noncompete agreements. Like you said, just your experience. 

Edited by AnklePicker

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11 minutes ago, Pinnum said:

This reminds me of the Ship of Theseus.

If we accept your premise...

Who is Flo exactly?  Flo, inc or Flo (the founders/employees that built Flo inc but are now at Rokfin)?

I suspect Flo inc is fighting the legal battle so vigorously because they realize that those going to Rokfin were the key to the wrestling market success and the wrestling market has been the steady business for Flo inc. 

 

Flo is a website.  People don’t just go to Rokfin for wrestling. It’s just a platform like YouTube.  They have all kinds of dumb political stuff on there. They initially started with wrestlers producing content primarily Ben Askren and then used that following to get the word out about their platform.  Don’t know why you assume Flo is so worried about Rokfin because they are holding their employee to his non compete clause. 

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14 minutes ago, AnklePicker said:

You do realize that’s still millions of jobs right?  

Yes, and I realize that 4 times as many millions of jobs do not. Using a minority statistic to argue that Jason Bryant is not in the majority ("just your experience") is not something 4 out of 5 people would do.

Edited by Wrestleknownothing

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1 minute ago, JasonBryant said:


I’m providing a direct instance within the sport of wrestling and journalism. I’m not an accountant, so I’d feel my experience is more in line with the norm in this segment of the industry.

When did you work at said newspaper?  Things have changed quite a bit in the non compete clause world even in the last decade. Flo is a business, not sure non profits should be as worried about non compete clauses since they aren’t for profit. 
 

So do you think Flo is wrong for holding Willie to the non compete agreement HE signed?  
 

 

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3 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Yes, and I realize that 4 times as many millions of jobs do not. Using a minority statistic to argue that Ankle Picker is not in the majority ("just your experience") is not something 4 out of 5 people would do.

So you’d prefer an anecdotal example over a study that covers the entire population and proves that 1 in 5 people (a huge portion) of the workforce do in fact sign them?  Ok. 

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25 minutes ago, AnklePicker said:

Flo is a website.  People don’t just go to Rokfin for wrestling. It’s just a platform like YouTube.  They have all kinds of dumb political stuff on there. They initially started with wrestlers producing content primarily Ben Askren and then used that following to get the word out about their platform.  Don’t know why you assume Flo is so worried about Rokfin because they are holding their employee to his non compete clause. 

Did you watch the hearings?  They are clearly scared of Rokfin, and rightfully so based on the NLWC announcement.

Edited by 1032004

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1 minute ago, AnklePicker said:

So you’d prefer an anecdotal example over a study that covers the entire population and proves that 1 in 5 people (a huge portion) of the workforce do in fact sign them?  Ok. 

my point is that 20% is not huge. 1 in 5 is not huge. 80% is huge. 4 of 5 is huge. My point is math.

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Just now, Wrestleknownothing said:

my point is that 20% is not huge. 1 in 5 is not huge. 80% is huge. 4 of 5 is huge. My point is math.

Are you serious?  You don’t think 1 in 5 workers having to sign a non compete clause is a huge number?  I think it’s gigantic and a major problem and gives large companies way too much power. I say get rid of them altogether. But if you’ve signed one you probably have to live up to it esp if a judge says you have to. 

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7 minutes ago, AnklePicker said:

I heard them defending their agreement. Not sure what you’re talking about. 

Mostly the fact that they tried to get Martin to admit to the existence of the NLWC event, even though it had nothing to do with Willie which is what the hearing was about.  Reminded me of A Few Good Men except it didn’t get to the point of Martin needing to say “You’re G.D. right NLWC is streaming an event live on Rokfin!!”

And I don’t think Martin ever said live events aren’t streamed on Rokfin, just that it’s not their business model.

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7 minutes ago, AnklePicker said:

Flo is a website. 

 

Not sure you're understanding...

You're saying that you give a lot of credit to Flo because of the value that has been created in the wrestling community and how you feel that without them it wouldn't be possible to have that value.

 

I mention the Ship of Theseus for a reason.

 

If you're not familiar with the concept, I will share a snippet from the wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

It is supposed that the famous ship sailed by the hero Theseus in a great battle was kept in a harbor as a museum piece, and as the years went by some of the wooden parts began to rot and were replaced by new ones; then, after a century or so, every part had been replaced. The question then is if the "restored" ship is still the same object as the original.

If it is, then suppose the removed pieces were stored in a warehouse, and after the century, technology was developed that cured their rot and enabled them to be reassembled into a ship? Is this "reconstructed" ship the original ship? If it is, then what about the restored ship in the harbor still being the original ship as well?  

 

Flo inc is the ship in the museum but all of the pieces have been moved to Rokfin and reassembled.  the sip looks different in its new iteration at both locations, but the one at Rokfin very much has all of the original pieces.

I understand giving credit to the ship for fighting the good fight.  But which ship actually fought for you?

 

19 minutes ago, AnklePicker said:

Don’t know why you assume Flo is so worried about Rokfin 

I think it is obvious in how litigious Flo inc has been regarding Rokfin.  Which is why Rokfin was a party of the matter and why they kept bringing up Rokfin in the hearing.  

 

I get that you keep saying that no one would be able to fill the void if Flo inc didn't exist.  But this case is literally about competition that would fill a void.  That is the whole premise of a non-compete.  To prevent others from doing what is being done.

I don't understand the argument that this is simply a case about a non-compete and not about Rokfin while also claiming that no one else is able to do what Flo inc does.  You realize all the people who did what Flo inc does are now at Rokfin, right?  That is what they are trying to prevent from being competition in the non-compete.

So which is it?  You can only have one.

  1. The wrestling community would not have any wrestling media without Flo inc and thus there is no point in spending millions to try to enforce a non-compete because Flo inc is the only one capable of providing the service to the community? 
  2. There are entities (or individuals) who are able to directly compete with Flo inc and provide the benefits Flo inc has provided to the wrestling community and thus Flo inc needs to spend millions to protect themselves from that competition?

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9 minutes ago, Pinnum said:

 

Not sure you're understanding...

You're saying that you give a lot of credit to Flo because of the value that has been created in the wrestling community and how you feel that without them it wouldn't be possible to have that value.

 

I mention the Ship of Theseus for a reason.

 

If you're not familiar with the concept, I will share a snippet from the wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

It is supposed that the famous ship sailed by the hero Theseus in a great battle was kept in a harbor as a museum piece, and as the years went by some of the wooden parts began to rot and were replaced by new ones; then, after a century or so, every part had been replaced. The question then is if the "restored" ship is still the same object as the original.

If it is, then suppose the removed pieces were stored in a warehouse, and after the century, technology was developed that cured their rot and enabled them to be reassembled into a ship? Is this "reconstructed" ship the original ship? If it is, then what about the restored ship in the harbor still being the original ship as well?  

 

Flo inc is the ship in the museum but all of the pieces have been moved to Rokfin and reassembled.  the sip looks different in its new iteration at both locations, but the one at Rokfin very much has all of the original pieces.

I understand giving credit to the ship for fighting the good fight.  But which ship actually fought for you?

 

I think it is obvious in how litigious Flo inc has been regarding Rokfin.  Which is why Rokfin was a party of the matter and why they kept bringing up Rokfin in the hearing.  

 

I get that you keep saying that no one would be able to fill the void if Flo inc didn't exist.  But this case is literally about competition that would fill a void.  That is the whole premise of a non-compete.  To prevent others from doing what is being done.

I don't understand the argument that this is simply a case about a non-compete and not about Rokfin while also claiming that no one else is able to do what Flo inc does.  You realize all the people who did what Flo inc does are now at Rokfin, right?  That is what they are trying to prevent from being competition in the non-compete.

So which is it?  You can only have one.

  1. The wrestling community would not have any wrestling media without Flo inc and thus there is no point in spending millions to try to enforce a non-compete because Flo inc is the only one capable of providing the service to the community? 
  2. There are entities (or individuals) who are able to directly compete with Flo inc and provide the benefits Flo inc has provided to the wrestling community and thus Flo inc needs to spend millions to protect themselves from that competition?

I never said that no one will be able to fill the void, let alone kept saying it. I just asked the question of why he felt another business would scoop up Flo if they went under. 
 

All the pieces have been moved to Rokfin? They aren’t even remotely the same. I’m not sure what you’re talking about. One is a website focused on providing wrestling content and the other is a platform that allows people to post whatever they want. Same as YouTube they just pay their creators differently. 
 

Have you ever actually been on the Rokfin website?  Are you a member?

Edited by AnklePicker

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1 hour ago, JasonBryant said:


I worked for a major daily newspaper with a competitor in the same market. I didn’t have a non-compete. I’ve also worked for two wrestling-centric non-profits and left both of them to take on other wrestling-related media opportunities. No non-compete there either.

Just my experience where I’ve spent the vast majority of my career - had no non-competes.

Every employee in my last 4 companies had to sign them. It's not negotiable. I can understand why some industries like journalism don't need them, but many do. It's also a state by state thing - some states like California don't uphold non-competes, some states do. 

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4 minutes ago, potdangerous said:

Every employee in my last 4 companies had to sign them. It's not negotiable. I can understand why some industries like journalism don't need them, but many do. It's also a state by state thing - some states like California don't uphold non-competes, some states do. 

And if you are the type of employer who takes an employee making 45K to court for taking a new job, when you have the right to fire that employee at will, I would never support your business. 

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8 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

And if you are the type of employer who takes an employee making 45K to court for taking a new job, when you have the right to fire that employee at will, I would never support your business. 

Your ire is misguided. You should be mad about the law not the fact that businesses utilize them. Don’t hate the player hate the game. 

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17 minutes ago, potdangerous said:

Every employee in my last 4 companies had to sign them. It's not negotiable. I can understand why some industries like journalism don't need them, but many do. It's also a state by state thing - some states like California don't uphold non-competes, some states do. 

Why do you personally need them?  Help us understand. 

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9 minutes ago, AnklePicker said:

Why do you personally need them?  Help us understand. 

Different industries and different levels of knowing proprietary information will determine if a company requires one. 

Think about these types of people are not signing them, which is a LARGE portion of people in the workforce.
Fast food employees
Manufacturing employees
Construction
Government(not sure exactly, but their aren't many competitors)
Teachers

These are just some examples of large portions of employees that would not need a non-compete.
 

Edited by BobDole

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10 minutes ago, AnklePicker said:

Your ire is misguided. You should be mad about the law not the fact that businesses utilize them. Don’t hate the player hate the game. 

Except when “the game” is played out, apparently many non competes don’t hold up in court.

So by your own admission, if only 20% of employees have one to begin with, they’re actually enforced at even less than that.

And once again, this is more than them just enforcing a non-compete.  The judge even pretty much agreed with them initially, stating Willie could only do certain things which he agrees to.  The reason we got to witness the circus of the past week or so is because they’re basically trying to claim Willie violated that order because he tweeted a couple photos and used the term “big board” within a random article.

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15 minutes ago, BobDole said:

Does anyone feel it is interesting that Martin is still the largest shareholder of FloSports? Also that Ben Askren(Flo contract employee) is also prominent on Rokfin?

 

 

Definitely interesting about Martin.

Askren has like 30 jobs and was on Rokfin prior to joining FRL I believe, so that’s not too interesting to me.  I do think that if he didn’t have the Flo gig that we’d hear more from him on this subject (he even jokingly retweeted Cael’s Tweet).

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