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Cael trolling FloKaren - NLWC event 9/19?

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2 hours ago, AnklePicker said:

Seems only reclusive when it comes to Flo. His other interviews are generally very good. 

This.  I heard he dislikes Pyles and the Flobros.  I wonder how he felt about their "We Are" Flo Film lol.

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4 minutes ago, ShakaAloha said:

This.  I heard he dislikes Pyles and the Flobros.  I wonder how he felt about their "We Are" Flo Film lol.

I don’t think he dislikes Pyles.  His distaste started long before he became a big part of the equation. 

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1 hour ago, hammerlockthree said:

Well thanks for posting, not sure if you've changed my mind i'll try to pay better attention.

Yeah these aren’t the best just some of the relatively recent ones. There’s one before NCAAs where you can really get a sense of his philosophy. Gratitude, fun etc.

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3 hours ago, AnklePicker said:

I don’t think he dislikes Pyles.  His distaste started long before he became a big part of the equation. 

Maybe "dislikes" was the wrong word.  There's only one, maybe two, of the Flo personalities that he actually respects and will divulge anything to.  Pyles is not one of them.  

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5 hours ago, Wrestlefan11 said:

Im late to the party, can anyone explain why Martin is no longer at Flosports. Did he start the company? 

Also is it just me or is the Rofkin logo incredibly similar to the Flo logo

Yes, he started both companies.  

Flo took on a lot of large sophisticated investors.  Those investors took more and more control of the board with each large check Flo collected and ultimately the new board ended up firing the founder.  

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On 9/3/2020 at 11:29 AM, Sstern said:

One thing on a human level that has perturbed me about these: if you gave your word, in writing, not to compete then why not just keep your word?  Money?

The other side of the NCA coin in a capitalist economy that the US claims to be the global leader of is that innovation, market share, price schedules, etc. dictate the phrase "the cream always rises to the top." In capitalistic terms, if you are good then you stay good; if your competitor can be better then keep up with them; if you can't keep up then don't let the door hit you on the way out.

On a human level, I find very few reasons to support a full NCA and those reasons are of the utmost importance but the majority are corporate hogwash. That is only my personal opinion and I support yours, I'm just throwing out my two cents.

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40 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

The other side of the NCA coin in a capitalist economy that the US claims to be the global leader of is that innovation, market share, price schedules, etc. dictate the phrase "the cream always rises to the top." In capitalistic terms, if you are good then you stay good; if your competitor can be better then keep up with them; if you can't keep up then don't let the door hit you on the way out.

On a human level, I find very few reasons to support a full NCA and those reasons are of the utmost importance but the majority are corporate hogwash. That is only my personal opinion and I support yours, I'm just throwing out my two cents.

You are right.  A lot of people say they want a free market, but only if the deck is stacked for them.

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covenants not to compete are anticompetitive and bad and, in california but i assume not texas, illegal. if i'm willie or rokfin, the exact contours of non-competition agreements are worth fighting over to keep working (up to a point, since the expense of litigation can get crazy).

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If you all think this really has anything to do with little ole Willie, you are smoking something good.  This is a strategy being employed by Flo bigwigs Paul Hurdlow and Mark Floreani to try and hamstring Martin Floreani and his fledgling company, Rokfin.  In the last hearing at the very beginning, Karen tried to pull Martin into the contempt part, and the judge wasn't having any of it because he personally isn't a party to the suit.  (side note, he is personally party to a suit brought by Flo against him in Delaware the same week Flo filed against Willie and Rokfin in Austin)  Hurdlow's strategy is to try and strangle Rokfin in the cradle before Martin can establish it enough in the industry to empower content owners to profit off their own events instead of having to sell out to Flo for nothing or very little in return for access to Flo's broadcast platform.  Witness, Carl and his event.

Flo's model is insidious.  They provide the content owners (Beast of the East, Ironman, etc.) an outlet to let their fans see events, but since they are virtually the only game in town (sorry Track) they pay the content owners very little to nothing for the content rights.  What if those content owners could directly take their events to the public through a platform like Rokfin and profit from it themselves?  That leaves Flo as merely a production company, and an expensive one at that when the opportunity cost is factored in.

Flo absolutely cannot sit idly by while Rokfin creates a platform that gives content owners an option to produce their own events, and have the profits go to the content owners rather than a faceless VC group.  So, Flo is trying to establish that Willie violated his non-compete and -- here's the critical component of this -- that Rokfin encouraged and assisted Willie in doing so.  That way, Flo can get some relief against Rokfin, although probably only a monetary award (if they can prove damages).

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5 hours ago, steelfrog said:

If you all think this really has anything to do with little ole Willie, you are smoking something good.  This is a strategy being employed by Flo bigwigs Paul Hurdlow and Mark Floreani to try and hamstring Martin Floreani and his fledgling company, Rokfin.  In the last hearing at the very beginning, Karen tried to pull Martin into the contempt part, and the judge wasn't having any of it because he personally isn't a party to the suit.  (side note, he is personally party to a suit brought by Flo against him in Delaware the same week Flo filed against Willie and Rokfin in Austin)  Hurdlow's strategy is to try and strangle Rokfin in the cradle before Martin can establish it enough in the industry to empower content owners to profit off their own events instead of having to sell out to Flo for nothing or very little in return for access to Flo's broadcast platform.  Witness, Carl and his event.

Flo's model is insidious.  They provide the content owners (Beast of the East, Ironman, etc.) an outlet to let their fans see events, but since they are virtually the only game in town (sorry Track) they pay the content owners very little to nothing for the content rights.  What if those content owners could directly take their events to the public through a platform like Rokfin and profit from it themselves?  That leaves Flo as merely a production company, and an expensive one at that when the opportunity cost is factored in.

Flo absolutely cannot sit idly by while Rokfin creates a platform that gives content owners an option to produce their own events, and have the profits go to the content owners rather than a faceless VC group.  So, Flo is trying to establish that Willie violated his non-compete and -- here's the critical component of this -- that Rokfin encouraged and assisted Willie in doing so.  That way, Flo can get some relief against Rokfin, although probably only a monetary award (if they can prove damages).

Has anyone else read this?!!?!?!?

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How is Rokfin any different than YouTube? The creators get paid?  Do they really?  How does it work?  Why doesn’t Jordan Burroughs continually add more content if it’s so lucrative?  Like I said earlier many Rokfin channels remain stagnant for months after they initially post. 
 

The way I see it as a wrestling fan is now I’ll have to pay for Flo and for Rokfin if I want to see what I saw at just Flo before.  It’s not competition that will lower cost, it’s another bill.  

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16 hours ago, steelfrog said:

If you all think this really has anything to do with little ole Willie, you are smoking something good.  This is a strategy being employed by Flo bigwigs Paul Hurdlow and Mark Floreani to try and hamstring Martin Floreani and his fledgling company, Rokfin.  In the last hearing at the very beginning, Karen tried to pull Martin into the contempt part, and the judge wasn't having any of it because he personally isn't a party to the suit.  (side note, he is personally party to a suit brought by Flo against him in Delaware the same week Flo filed against Willie and Rokfin in Austin)  Hurdlow's strategy is to try and strangle Rokfin in the cradle before Martin can establish it enough in the industry to empower content owners to profit off their own events instead of having to sell out to Flo for nothing or very little in return for access to Flo's broadcast platform.  Witness, Carl and his event.

Flo's model is insidious.  They provide the content owners (Beast of the East, Ironman, etc.) an outlet to let their fans see events, but since they are virtually the only game in town (sorry Track) they pay the content owners very little to nothing for the content rights.  What if those content owners could directly take their events to the public through a platform like Rokfin and profit from it themselves?  That leaves Flo as merely a production company, and an expensive one at that when the opportunity cost is factored in.

Flo absolutely cannot sit idly by while Rokfin creates a platform that gives content owners an option to produce their own events, and have the profits go to the content owners rather than a faceless VC group.  So, Flo is trying to establish that Willie violated his non-compete and -- here's the critical component of this -- that Rokfin encouraged and assisted Willie in doing so.  That way, Flo can get some relief against Rokfin, although probably only a monetary award (if they can prove damages).

TrackWrestling vs. Flo
TrackWrestling event organizers get money based on the number of the subscriptions they generate. Depending upon price and quantity it can be very good.

FloWrestling pays event organizers up front, so they are guaranteed money, but can also be capped if it is a big event.

Both have positives and negatives depending upon the event.

10 hours ago, AnklePicker said:

How is Rokfin any different than YouTube? The creators get paid?  Do they really?  How does it work?  Why doesn’t Jordan Burroughs continually add more content if it’s so lucrative?  Like I said earlier many Rokfin channels remain stagnant for months after they initially post. 
 

The way I see it as a wrestling fan is now I’ll have to pay for Flo and for Rokfin if I want to see what I saw at just Flo before.  It’s not competition that will lower cost, it’s another bill.  

Rokfins claim is that the content creators will make more(eventually) and are basically part owners. YouTube has changed their monetization lately that has irked many of their big names.

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23 hours ago, steelfrog said:

If you all think this really has anything to do with little ole Willie, you are smoking something good.  This is a strategy being employed by Flo bigwigs Paul Hurdlow and Mark Floreani to try and hamstring Martin Floreani and his fledgling company, Rokfin.  In the last hearing at the very beginning, Karen tried to pull Martin into the contempt part, and the judge wasn't having any of it because he personally isn't a party to the suit.  (side note, he is personally party to a suit brought by Flo against him in Delaware the same week Flo filed against Willie and Rokfin in Austin)  Hurdlow's strategy is to try and strangle Rokfin in the cradle before Martin can establish it enough in the industry to empower content owners to profit off their own events instead of having to sell out to Flo for nothing or very little in return for access to Flo's broadcast platform.  Witness, Carl and his event.

Flo's model is insidious.  They provide the content owners (Beast of the East, Ironman, etc.) an outlet to let their fans see events, but since they are virtually the only game in town (sorry Track) they pay the content owners very little to nothing for the content rights.  What if those content owners could directly take their events to the public through a platform like Rokfin and profit from it themselves?  That leaves Flo as merely a production company, and an expensive one at that when the opportunity cost is factored in.

Flo absolutely cannot sit idly by while Rokfin creates a platform that gives content owners an option to produce their own events, and have the profits go to the content owners rather than a faceless VC group.  So, Flo is trying to establish that Willie violated his non-compete and -- here's the critical component of this -- that Rokfin encouraged and assisted Willie in doing so.  That way, Flo can get some relief against Rokfin, although probably only a monetary award (if they can prove damages).

You're right, the Rokfin business model is great for content creators.  Rokfin gets paid in cash via subscribers and the content creators get paid in crypto currency issued by Rokfin. Clearly, the winners in this situation are the content creators.....

Yes, Flo is being absolutely ruthless with their frivolous lawsuits, and it is disgusting, but don't act for a second like Rokfin is some type of great or original idea. It's a cheap ripoff of youtube or patreon, except without the whole paying content creators in cash thing.  And those of us who have subscribed to flo have not forgotten just how poorly it was run in the past, when there were even more failures in delivering reliable streams.  We want a competent company to subscribe to, not the same people who created the mess that is flowrestling.  

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7 hours ago, BobDole said:

TrackWrestling vs. Flo
TrackWrestling event organizers get money based on the number of the subscriptions they generate. Depending upon price and quantity it can be very good.

FloWrestling pays event organizers up front, so they are guaranteed money, but can also be capped if it is a big event.

Both have positives and negatives depending upon the event.

Rokfins claim is that the content creators will make more(eventually) and are basically part owners. YouTube has changed their monetization lately that has irked many of their big names.

They pay out in crypto currency, not equity in the company. If they wanted them to be part owners, they would pay the content creators in equity.  Crypto provides zero value in terms of the value of the company-it profit millions a year and having crypto would give you exactly $0 in dividends. In all these crypto scams, the stock options always go to the executives, while the crypto currency goes to the marks.

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On 9/9/2020 at 5:53 PM, Billyhoyle said:

You're right, the Rokfin business model is great for content creators.  Rokfin gets paid in cash via subscribers and the content creators get paid in crypto currency issued by Rokfin. Clearly, the winners in this situation are the content creators.....

Yes, Flo is being absolutely ruthless with their frivolous lawsuits, and it is disgusting, but don't act for a second like Rokfin is some type of great or original idea. It's a cheap ripoff of youtube or patreon, except without the whole paying content creators in cash thing.  And those of us who have subscribed to flo have not forgotten just how poorly it was run in the past, when there were even more failures in delivering reliable streams.  We want a competent company to subscribe to, not the same people who created the mess that is flowrestling.  

So who do we want to win? Competition has to be good for the consumer and the overall product, right? Guess I’m rooting for Rokfin!

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If the NLWC really starts putting consistent content on their page, and other organizations follow suit, Flo is in real trouble. 

The first counter argument would be that clubs are just going to propagandize for themselves, so their content would lack something...but Flo refuses to become "journalists" so whats the difference? 

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2 hours ago, hammerlockthree said:

If the NLWC really starts putting consistent content on their page, and other organizations follow suit, Flo is in real trouble. 

The first counter argument would be that clubs are just going to propagandize for themselves, so their content would lack something...but Flo refuses to become "journalists" so whats the difference? 

They’ve never said they were journalists. They are like MTV in its early years, passion driven production led by people who had no clue what the hell they were doing and learned on the fly.  They could have went the more professional route a long time ago but by doing so they know they lose something else. 
 

And while this might put Flo in real trouble how does it help the consumer?  It still costs $10 a month.  So if you want both you’re paying double. It seems for the consumers of digital content competition doesn’t drive down costs it multiplies them.  

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18 minutes ago, AnklePicker said:

They’ve never said they were journalists. They are like MTV in its early years, passion driven production led by people who had no clue what the hell they were doing and learned on the fly.  They could have went the more professional route a long time ago but by doing so they know they lose something else. 
 

And while this might put Flo in real trouble how does it help the consumer?  It still costs $10 a month.  So if you want both you’re paying double. It seems for the consumers of digital content competition doesn’t drive down costs it multiplies them.  

the whole point of my post was that they said they aren't journalists. 

it helps the consumer because you would have clubs, teams coaches, etc. competing against each other to make compelling content. Flo has repeatedly dismissed criticism on the basis of their status as the #1 wrestling media outlet. 

Edited by hammerlockthree

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3 hours ago, Swayz said:

Are they suing at all for similarity of logo?

You mean is Rokfin suing right?  When Flo changed their logo last year is when IMO it did become pretty similar to Rokfin’s, which I noted in one of the threads about that - 

 

 

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