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uncle bernard

Fix suspended for doping

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13 minutes ago, LJB said:

The proof is that the supplements they send to USADA for testing had banned substances that were not in the list of ingredients...

Seems about as cut and dried as you can get...

the athletes did not knowingly put what they popped for in their system... 

now... start using kangaroo meat as an excuse and things start getting a little greasy...

It’s a better story than Fix’s, but damn what a coincidence.

 

A company is manufacturing supplements.  They accidentally mix up the ingredients.  The accidental ingredient happens to be an illegal PED.  A bunch of MMA fighters happen to take THAT supplement.  They happen to be very successful.  
 

I’ll choose to believe in the USADA process, but it’s pretty easy to see why people are skeptical.

Edited by madcat11

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1 minute ago, AHamilton said:

I'm wondering if someone was using a therapeutic dose to receive a benefit, how long would it take to clear from the body to the extent Fix tested for.  Like is it something that was being used two weeks before and then stopped? How long would you need to be off of it to leave those levels?

Well, according to the guys in the white lab coats, his levels were consistent with someone who had take one “gulp” of a water bottle...

this came up quite a bit when Jones popped for his peptides... the tests are getting so good they can potentially pick up levels of substances that would never appear in someone who was actually knowingly using...

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2 minutes ago, madcat11 said:

It’s a better story than Fix’s, but damn what a coincidence.

 

A company is manufacturing supplements.  They accidentally mix up the ingredients.  The accidental ingredient happens to be an illegal PED.  A bunch of MMA fighters happen to take THAT supplement.  They happen to be very successful.  
 

I’ll choose to believe in the USADA process, but it’s pretty easy to see why people are skeptical.

It’s a question of personality...

do you choose to look for the boogie man everywhere or not?

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24 minutes ago, madcat11 said:

I’m not arguing anything nor do I have an agenda.  I’m open to the explanation in the article.  I was expecting something a little more sturdy for the “proof” though.  That’s all.

The usual accidental usage excuse doesn't apply to Fix. The other cases are cut and dry where their legal supplements were tainted with an ingredient that isn't legal. They "prove" this by sending in the supplements they were taking and they get tested for contaminants. Fix attempted this initially, but none of his supplements tested as tainted, so he had to find another reason.

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3 minutes ago, LJB said:

It’s a question of personality...

do you choose to look for the boogie man everywhere or not?

Says the guy who blows up every other thread on here that mentions flo by accusing everybody of irrationally hating flo in bolded 100 pt. font.

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2 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

Says the guy who blows up every other thread on here that mentions flo by accusing everybody of irrationally hating flo in bolded 100 pt. font.

Salty dog, huh?

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4 hours ago, LJB said:

Well, according to the guys in the white lab coats, his levels were consistent with someone who had take one “gulp” of a water bottle...

this came up quite a bit when Jones popped for his peptides... the tests are getting so good they can potentially pick up levels of substances that would never appear in someone who was actually knowingly using...

Couple of problems with that though:

1) Fix lawyered up (smart).  The lawyers on this board will tell you that it isn't too hard to find a guy in a lab coat to say what you want.

2) 24 hour half life. A gulp yesterday tests the same as two gulps the day before that; 4 gulps from three days ago; 8 gulps from 4 days ago; 16 gulps from 5 days ago; 32 gulps from 6 days ago; and 64 gulps from a week ago.  That is my understanding.  So if he went off tow or three weeks prior to competition?  He could have had quite a bit in his body at that point. 

Chemists, please correct me if I am wrong.

I am happy that he is allowed to wrestle.  I want our best rep.  However, this is a little fishy.    

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7 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

Couple of problems with that though:

1) Fix lawyered up (smart).  The lawyers on this board will tell you that it isn't too hard to find a guy in a lab coat to say what you want.

2) 24 hour half life. A gulp yesterday tests the same as two gulps the day before that; 4 gulps from three days ago; 8 gulps from 4 days ago; 16 gulps from 5 days ago; 32 gulps from 6 days ago; and 64 gulps from a week ago.  That is my understanding.  So if he went off tow or three weeks prior to competition?  He could have had quite a bit in his body at that point. 

Chemists, please correct me if I am wrong.

I am happy that he is allowed to wrestle.  I want our best rep.  However, this is a little fishy.    

the only thing i will say is that the concentration levels came from USADA's lab... not just anyone...

the rest i could not possibly comment on with anything of value...

none of this leaves a very good taste in my mouth...

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15 hours ago, AHamilton said:

I'm wondering if someone was using a therapeutic dose to receive a benefit, how long would it take to clear from the body to the extent Fix tested for.  Like is it something that was being used two weeks before and then stopped? How long would you need to be off of it to leave those levels?

I will do my best to estimate, but these are all guestimates. The therapeutic dose for ostarine appears to be 10-25 mg/day.  What we don't know is how much of it is absorbed and what the concentration of it will be in urine on day 1 from a 25 mg intake (maybe this can be found from a publication somewhere online, but these are hard to find since scientists generally don't care about doping)-obviously the initial amount in the urine would be significantly smaller than 25 mg/mL since on average we excrete 800 to 2000 mL of urine per day. So let's make some assumptions that are undoubtedly exaggerated.  Let's say he was taking the maximum recommended dose of 25 mg/mL and not engaging in strategies like micro-dosing, and let's say 100% was absorbed upon intake, which is very unlikely, and let's say he produces 1500 mL of urine per day.  Given the 24 hr half life, on day 1 there would be (0.5*25/1500 mg/mL = 8333 ng/mL) in his urine.  His test was 0.065 ng/ml, so with a 24 hr half life it would take 17 days to go from 8333 ng/mL to 0.065 ng/mL.  In reality, the initial concentration was likely well below 8333 ng/mL, probably by 1 to 2 orders of magnitude (this is just a guess-if there is a pharmacist here who understands drug absorption please provide insight), meaning he probably had dosed 10 to 14 days prior to record a level of 0.065 ng/mL.  

 

The entire premise for Fix's defense is that he accidentally ingested a small amount of this designer anabolic (a couple gulps) 1-2 days before he received the random out of competition test.  That is some really bad luck right there.  

Edited by Billyhoyle

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Askren brought up a good point on FRL.  Especially with his dad being the RTC coach and all, shouldn’t they have explored this possibility more from the start?

According to the document, his dad did say initially that he was taking the stuff, but they basically just said nah that’s probably not it until supposedly exploring it again after sending all his supplements in?    If the dad knew he was keeping it in a fridge in his house, that should have been the first thing he thought of IMO.

The story is plausible, but it could also be a crock of you know what.

 

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39 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

The entire premise for Fix's defense is that he accidentally ingested a small amount of this designer anabolic (a couple gulps) 1-2 days before he received the random out of competition test.  That is some really bad luck right there.  

Wasn't the test done overseas, in Italy?  Did he take a swig from the refrigerator in the garage, then hop on a plane only to be tested 1-2 days later in Italy?

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9 minutes ago, klehner said:

Wasn't the test done overseas, in Italy?  Did he take a swig from the refrigerator in the garage, then hop on a plane only to be tested 1-2 days later in Italy?

It says out of competition test on 1/22 and he was home 1/20 or 1/21. I forget exactly-the document is in the other thread. 

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So an athlete who wrestled at 133 in large part due to having documented struggles reaching 125. Suddenly starts making 57kg with no apparent issues whatsoever on similar hour-2 hour weigh ins. Ok fine. Plausible but can make people who aren’t dummies or wrestling dads go hmm.

He pops for the exact substance someone cutting a bunch of weight and wanting to retain muscle mass and strength would take. 

None of his supplements were tainted so there is a very weird questionable and only somewhat plausible excu.. er story.

Then a contrarian wrestling dad who is associates or friends with Fix’s wrestling dad. Apparently knows Fix.(No conflict of interest there..) And has seen “Fix cut weight and wrestle other elementary kids and high schoolers”. “Knows” that there is no way Fix would need the exact supplement used for cutting weight.. to cut weight. Against other grown men mind you. Apparently this wrestling dad is an “expert”. Despite having never cut weight. 

Does that sum up the story and this thread? 

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13 minutes ago, jp157 said:

So an athlete who wrestled at 133 in large part due to having documented struggles reaching 125. Suddenly starts making 57kg with no apparent issues whatsoever on similar hour-2 hour weigh ins. Ok fine. Plausible but can make people who aren’t dummies or wrestling dads go hmm.

He pops for the exact substance someone cutting a bunch of weight and wanting to retain muscle mass and strength would take. 

None of his supplements were tainted so there is a very weird questionable and only somewhat plausible excu.. er story.

Then a contrarian wrestling dad who is associates or friends with Fix’s wrestling dad. Apparently knows Fix.(No conflict of interest there..) And has seen “Fix cut weight and wrestle other elementary kids and high schoolers”. “Knows” that there is no way Fix would need the exact supplement used for cutting weight.. to cut weight. Against other grown men mind you. Apparently this wrestling dad is an “expert”. Despite having never cut weight. 

Does that sum up the story and this thread? 

there is no "documented struggles" of fix making 25... you made that up... as per...

he wrestled 33 because of picc...

he has made 57kg on same day 2 day for several years with no issues with performance... won age level world medals doing it... won senior tournaments doing it... passed all testing while doing it up till the most recent...

those are facts and can not be disputed...

now... as to the red-assed comments that you continually throw out as if you are anybody...

i never said anything about "knowing" fix does or does not need a supplement to make weight... you made that up... as per...

i said i have watched him pull weight basically throughout his early age level career through HS and watched how he handled it...

i have never claimed to be an "expert"... you made that up... as per...

i have cut weight... you assume i haven't because you are ignorant... as per...

but for sure, keep chasing like the jilted lover... 

you are adorable...

 

for the record, i have a very hard time buying this story that was put before and accepted by the 3rd party non-biased independent panel of arbitrators... they decided there was enough evidence to prove to them that fix unknowingly ingested the banned substance and lowered his suspension to just one year...

if the story is true, at the very least it shows a level of irresponsibility that i would never have previously attributed to derek...

i have speculations that are only that...

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For someone who acts so smug. The way you get triggered seems to mean certain things hit home. I am somebody btw. I think therefore I am. 

My apologies though. I should have assumed you would have the intellectual dishonesty to “imply” your intelligence and knowledge of certain topics in a way that could be backtracked from if directly called out on. 

The situation stinks and the way you defended it until very recently in this thread was ignorant at best and suspect at worst. Especially in situations like this where often.. if there is the metaphorical smoke, there usually is the metaphorical fire. Especially when one considers how easy it is to microdose if you already know the supplement is “tainted” and have it ready to go. 

None of this is even considering rampant rumors about certain people and teams. Which obviously shouldn’t be used as evidence. But if you’re half as important as you say you are. Know they exist
 

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3 minutes ago, jp157 said:

For someone who acts so smug. The way you get triggered seems to mean certain things hit home. I am somebody btw. I think therefore I am. 

My apologies though. I should have assumed you would have the intellectual dishonesty to “imply” your intelligence and knowledge of certain topics in a way that could be backtracked from if directly called out on. 

The situation stinks and the way you defended it until very recently in this thread was ignorant at best and suspect at worst. Especially in situations like this where often.. if there is the metaphorical smoke, there usually is the metaphorical fire. Especially when one considers how easy it is to microdose if you already know the supplement is “tainted” and have it ready to go. 

None of this is even considering rampant rumors about certain people and teams. Which obviously shouldn’t be used as evidence. But if you’re half as important as you say you are. Know they exist
 

acts so smug?

you got the red-ass...

that is all...

once you get over that you may end up being a happier person...

my guess is you won't... people like you rarely are...

again, because you are so small, you read my comments in away that fits your own narrative... that is what tiny people do... you are not unique in that...

i have said from the very beginning that i do not necessarily believe the explanation put forth...

i don't feel good about any of it...

you can go back and check that record, but, you won't... 

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Kid wrestles a tournament comes home and then shows a residue amount - not surprising it was only trace a full week after the cut.

The father - a non-athlete - takes ostarine despite it causing gynecomastia, enlarged prostate, and shrinking of the testicles. (Source: US Pharmacist - Anecdotal evidence suggests that taking ostarine at these high doses over this extended time period can adversely lead to lowered testosterone levels.17 The side effects of decreased testosterone include reduced sex drive, erectile dysfunction, infertility, muscle weakness, loss of bone density, weight gain accompanied by increased body fat, insomnia, and depression.1) Makes perfect sense.  All of the guys at my club are on it.  Helps driver distance.  Not so good for the putter though :) 

No one puts these 2 things together.  Instead they lawyer up and blame it on any and all other supplements he's taking.  Good legal strategy but comes up empty.  "Hmmm - we're in trouble.  I wonder what my attorney would suggest?"   

Lightning bolt!!!  Dad says "Hey DF - remember that one swig of my garage stash you took just after you came home when the doorbell rang and the nice man from USADA was here?".  I wasn't there when you drank it so I have no knowledge but it was Mom's usual special juice, so it must have stuck in your mind." 

"Why yes Dad - i do.  It was sooooo tasty.  Didn't Mark Perry recommend that to you?    Glad I only took one very small swig.  I'm surprised you never mentioned you were storing and taking a drug that could cause me to lose my career and potentially destroy my health and ability to give you grandchildren.  You silly Dad you.  I love you big guy.  You really are ripped these days"  

Lawyer threatens USADA with protracted legal action.  They compromise.  All is quiet - Not a word from Dad, JS, or MP.   Maybe it will all just go away. "Remember when that bad man pulled my headgear?  Now that is worth crying to the newspapers about for sure!  This we will just stay mum on." 

Biggest crock of nonsense ever.  DF is a cheater and probably always has been.   I expect this is the beginning of the end.  He won't be able to pull weight again without risking a 2nd hit.  USADA will then burn him at the stake.   

Smith, Perry, Elder Fix and DF all gave the a sport a black eye.  

Edited by TFBJR
Source info. No conclusive trials have been held at doping levels.

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he will be at the trials at 57kg...

i would be willing to bet the salve for jp's ridiculously chapped ass he will be there...

and that is no small bet... that poor little fella NEEEEEEEEDS that relief more than RTC coaches need ostarine... 

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1 hour ago, TFBJR said:

 

The father - a non-athlete - takes ostarine despite it causing gynecomastia, enlarged prostate, and shrinking of the testicles.  Makes perfect sense.  All of the guys at my club are on it.  Helps driver distance.  

 

I agree with much of what you say.  However, I don't think those are the side effects of Ostarine and SARMs. One of the reasons they are attractive to athletes is fewer side effects.  I could be wrong.

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