195 Bracket...

[Class 67]

Not to belabor my rant too much here but Flo and their response to out of the box ideas reminds me of pro golf when the sport was being reintroduced to the olympics.  They sent surveys to key players about what they could do to drive interest and what format they should use.  The players came back saying "how about 4 rounds of stroke play, 72 holes total" and the outcome was an event that drew perhaps a touch more interest than a normal PGA tour event that is a non-major.

Flo gets an A on the great concept, structure and potential of this event and then they falling back on basic wrestling tournament limitations and norms to defend in the box policies for entries and rules.  This could be the event of the year, or similar to golf and the olympics it could be another wrestling tournament bracket with perhaps a touch more interest than the normally scheduled ones.

When CP dismisses someone like Downey being in the bracket (and trust me, no Downey fan here) it shows that either he has no situational awareness at all about promotion or it shows that Flo is unable to make the right decisions from the top down.  Because right now, for a small point in time, Downey is a hell of a draw and why on earth would you not make that happen?!?!  If that means changing a sanctioning body then do it.

Edited September 22, 2020 by Class

[Class 67]

Gabe Dean is a fine draw.  His NCAA finishes were impressive.  His small career in freestyle was not great and it was short lived.  Certainly a great wrestler, but not going to draw viewership.

[Wrestleknownothing 349]

35 minutes ago, Class said:

Not to belabor my rant too much here but Flo and their response to out of the box ideas reminds me of pro golf when the sport was being reintroduced to the olympics.  They sent surveys to key players about what they could do to drive interest and what format they should use.  The players came back saying "how about 4 rounds of stroke play, 72 holes total" and the outcome was an event that drew perhaps a touch more interest than a normal PGA tour event that is a non-major.

Flo gets an A on the great concept, structure and potential of this event and then they falling back on basic wrestling tournament limitations and norms to defend in the box policies for entries and rules.  This could be the event of the year, or similar to golf and the olympics it could be another wrestling tournament bracket with perhaps a touch more interest than the normally scheduled ones.

When CP dismisses someone like Downey being in the bracket (and trust me, no Downey fan here) it shows that either he has no situational awareness at all about promotion or it shows that Flo is unable to make the right decisions from the top down.  Because right now, for a small point in time, Downey is a hell of a draw and why on earth would you not make that happen?!?!  If that means changing a sanctioning body then do it.

It has nothing to do with a sanctioning body. Last week CP made it clear on FRL that his lack of USAW membership had nothing to do with PDIII not being welcome.

CP expanded on that this morning on FRL. He went through the timeline of support that Flo showed to PDIII. That included the statement that there has not been a more supportive media entity of PDIII than Flo. They view PDIII the person as endearing and PDIII the social media entity as doing himself no favors. Prominent coaches even contacted them to tell them not to get involved with PDIII. But they pushed forward with films, paying him to appear at Who's Number One, and including him on their initial Flo card.

What really set CP off, and the stated reason for not including PDIII this time, was that two weeks prior to the event PDIII tweeted he was withdrawing because there were no woman's or greco matches 3 days after going to war with women's wrestling. They were angry that two weeks before their first event they were having to replace him in their main event. That kind of instability means they have no desire to go down that road again.

So basically, Flo feels betrayed after showing loyalty that was not shown back.

[Mokoma 268]

50 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I think Gabe Dean is a good name (3-1-1-2).   Has he wrestled Bo since his NCAA finals loss?

Yes Bo beat him in freestyle after.

[Class 67]

2 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

It has nothing to do with a sanctioning body. Last week CP made it clear on FRL that his lack of USAW membership had nothing to do with PDIII not being welcome.

CP expanded on that this morning on FRL. He went through the timeline of support that Flo showed to PDIII. That included the statement that there has not been a more supportive media entity of PDIII than Flo. They view PDIII the person as endearing and PDIII the social media entity as doing himself no favors. Prominent coaches even contacted them to tell them not to get involved with PDIII. But they pushed forward with films, paying him to appear at Who's Number One, and including him on their initial Flo card.

What really set CP off, and the stated reason for not including PDIII this time, was that two weeks prior to the event PDIII tweeted he was withdrawing because there were no woman's or greco matches 3 days after going to war with women's wrestling. They were angry that two weeks before their first event they were having to replace him in their main event. That kind of instability means they have no desire to go down that road again.

So basically, Flo feels betrayed after showing loyalty that was not shown back.

Do not listen to FRL so thank you.  If that was the case it is understandable.

[Jon_Kozak 219]

1 hour ago, Mokoma said:

Yes Bo beat him in freestyle after.

When? I don't remember them wrestling in Freestyle after their NCAA finals match in 2017.

They were both at the Open that year, but Gabe lost to Pat Downey 7-6. Then Downey lost his next match to Nickal 12-2. So, Nickal took 4th at the 2017 Open and Dean took 7th. 

[DuckFor2 176]

sounds to me like Nickal is making his transition to MMA reading some reports this summer. Perhaps he makes 1 serious attempt at the Olympics and that's the last we see from him. 

[Mokoma 268]

1 hour ago, Jon_Kozak said:

When? I don't remember them wrestling in Freestyle after their NCAA finals match in 2017.

They were both at the Open that year, but Gabe lost to Pat Downey 7-6. Then Downey lost his next match to Nickal 12-2. So, Nickal took 4th at the 2017 Open and Dean took 7th. 

Could be what I’m remembering I guess.

[1032004 809]

1 hour ago, DuckFor2 said:

sounds to me like Nickal is making his transition to MMA reading some reports this summer. Perhaps he makes 1 serious attempt at the Olympics and that's the last we see from him. 

I’m sure he wouldn’t mind an extra $20k though

[hammerlockthree 1,961]

13 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

On FRL last week they said Downey will not be in it. Askren asked if it was because he didn't have his card. Pyles said no, even if he had his card he wouldn't be welcome and then wanted to change the subject immediately. 

stuff like this is why I can't believe anyone listens to FRL....

[BobDole 967]

I hope Ben eventually gets his way with the "pick your spot" method. This will add intrigue and strategy that you don't usually see. 

If I know a guy will be pulling a lot of weight, why not get him early to knock him off? If I know someone's conditioning is suspect why not go after him on short rest?  There is a lot to consider when picking your spot in the bracket, especially when all 8 competitors will be fairly equal.

Faux-seeding it is a lame way to organize the event, add a little spice and get the competitors involved. How much fun would a show be with all 8 guys picking their spots and seeing their reactions when someone says they want the other guy first round? 

Edited September 22, 2020 by BobDole

[Wrestleknownothing 349]

13 minutes ago, hammerlockthree said:

stuff like this is why I can't believe anyone listens to FRL....

I was a little frustrated by that too.

The good news they apparently listen to you, the fan. CP references the amount of blow back he got from "Pat Downey's Lizard Warriors" thanks to Askren inciting them as the reason he expanded on his logic today.

[Wrestleknownothing 349]

5 minutes ago, BobDole said:

I hope Ben eventually gets his way with the "pick your spot" method. This will add intrigue and strategy that you don't usually see. 

If I know a guy will be pulling a lot of weight, why not get him early to knock him off? If I know someone's conditioning is suspect why not go after him on short rest?  There is a lot to consider when picking your spot in the bracket, especially when all 8 competitors will be fairly equal.

Faux-seeding it is a lame way to organize the event, add a little spice and get the competitors involved. How much fun would a show be with all 8 guys picking their spots and seeing their reactions when someone says they want the other guy first round? 

I second that emotion.

[jross 279]

How many wrestlers have asked to participate and were declined?  Is this a first-come, first-serve bracket based on a known set past result requirements?  

[Lurker 1,382]

15 minutes ago, BobDole said:

I hope Ben eventually gets his way with the "pick your spot" method. This will add intrigue and strategy that you don't usually see. 

If I know a guy will be pulling a lot of weight, why not get him early to knock him off? If I know someone's conditioning is suspect why not go after him on short rest?  There is a lot to consider when picking your spot in the bracket, especially when all 8 competitors will be fairly equal.

Faux-seeding it is a lame way to organize the event, add a little spice and get the competitors involved. How much fun would a show be with all 8 guys picking their spots and seeing their reactions when someone says they want the other guy first round? 

love it!

[1032004 809]

11 minutes ago, jross said:

How many wrestlers have asked to participate and were declined?  Is this a first-come, first-serve bracket based on a known set past result requirements?  

Yeah I'm confused by this as well unless they already know who the other 4 are.

I don't see the issue with not allowing Downey though.   As many such as myself argue, they're a business, they can pretty much choose who they want for this.  Agree or not but they removed him from the 7/25 card, has anything since then really changed?   

[Wrestleknownothing 349]

4 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Yeah I'm confused by this as well unless they already know who the other 4 are.

I don't see the issue with not allowing Downey though.   As many such as myself argue, they're a business, they can pretty much choose who they want for this.  Agree or not but they removed him from the 7/25 card, has anything since then really changed?   

Interestingly, they claim he removed himself without while trying to blame Flo. Once burned, twice cautious.

I don't know that anyone has an issue per se with excluding Downey. I think it has to do with disappointment with not getting to see Downey get beaten on by Taylor, or whoever signs up.

[bnwtwg 422]

1 hour ago, BobDole said:

I hope Ben eventually gets his way with the "pick your spot" method. This will add intrigue and strategy that you don't usually see. 

Would be awesome to make it white elephant-style and everyone trades spots (with the first person also going last). Might as well make a fun hype event out of it and bring in viewers for an hour. 

[AnklePicker 521]

I’ll take Sammy Brooks to come out of the top half. Who y’all got?

Edited September 22, 2020 by AnklePicker

[Mokoma 268]

2 hours ago, AnklePicker said:

I’ll take Sammy Brooks to come out of the top half. Who y’all got?

That’s unlikely to be the top half.  It’s probably just the first half of the commitments. 

[AnklePicker 521]

2 hours ago, Mokoma said:

That’s unlikely to be the top half.  It’s probably just the first half of the commitments. 

Oh duh, thanks. 

[hammerlockthree 1,961]

11 hours ago, Mokoma said:

Could be what I’m remembering I guess.

yeah respectfully i doubt it.

Bo had a close freestyle match with dean after Dean's first college season (we knew he was good), and he also teched downey after downey knocked off dean.

the combination of those 2 results might be what you are remembering.   

[DanGerMan 44]

16 hours ago, Class said:

Gabe Dean is a fine draw.  His NCAA finishes were impressive.  His small career in freestyle was not great and it was short lived.  Certainly a great wrestler, but not going to draw viewership.

Gabe Dean draws this viewer.

[Mokoma 268]

3 hours ago, hammerlockthree said:

yeah respectfully i doubt it.

Bo had a close freestyle match with dean after Dean's first college season (we knew he was good), and he also teched downey after downey knocked off dean.

the combination of those 2 results might be what you are remembering.   

You respectfully doubt what I remember?

[nhs67 897]

4 hours ago, Mokoma said:

You respectfully doubt what I remember?

I believe all he is saying is he believes it makes more sense that you're actually remembering what he had said in his response.