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Can Dake win 4 titles at 4 weights?

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Would someone take an Olympic red-shirt if they don't make the team? Assume Howe doesn't get past Burroughs, or Schlatter, or one of the Paulson brothers, would he then decide not to take a red-shirt?

 

If you win the world team trials this year, isn't that for a spot on the 2012 Olympic team?

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Man, you guys have your panties, in a bunch, no one is saying it's luck. He's an exceptional wrestler and talent, I simply think that if he ran into say someone like Burroughs, I'm sorry, eh's not winning, if Caldwell wssn't injured, he's not winning, it's not a matter of luck, it's just a matter of things falling in place. Whether it was Cael's 4 titles, who would have that DS would never have one another title, who would have thought after the way Caldwell dismantled Metcalf , that CAldwell would wrestle only 14 more matches in 2 years? Dake , god forbid, step on a nail at a restaurant and get a blood clot, who knows. All I'm saying regardless of how talented you happen to be, alot of things have to fall in place to win 4 straight titles, better wrestlers IMHO did not, history would be on the side of it's alot more likely he doesn't win 4 titles than he is, your work ethic is the one thing you can control but their are alot of factors you can't. I think Teyon Ware and Kyle Dake are equally as good, both one as true frosh, Teyon only finished with 2 titles. The point being number 1) his road is now easier with some of the guys that are good enough to beat him clearing out 2) well that leaves it up to luck, hopefully, stays healthy, and a slew of other factors.The answer was yes, he has a greater chance now, all things being equal as a talent has cleared out, and the one guy I believed could pretty easily major him along with anyone else in the weight class Caldwell graduated. And at '57 it's just D. Taylor who I think Dake can beat , but would be a good match. And Jenkins well he's gone.

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I think it is particularly hard for fanboy (Acadia) to accept that Caldwell will forever be a 1xer. He hates it so much that he has to come on here and use statements like IF to diminish other wrestlers careers and achievements. Wasn't it you that said that 60-70% of Caldwell is good enough to destroy everyone at nationals?! Feel sorry for ya mate. I know it probably has to sting a bit. Please, have enough decency to come on here and post and not diminish other individual's achievements at every opportunity you get.

Well, considering, he broke his arm, yeah, I still stand by it, a 60-70% CAldwell is better than DAke. I like Dake, he's not on that level. Metcalf better than dake , CAldwell ahealthy Caldwell better than Metcalf, Bubba, Palmer, O'Connor, so many guys from that '08 2008 149 IMHO are tougher than Dake, it's not to say DAke isn't a beast, he is. He's just a notch below. IMHO. He has 2 titles you can't argue with that, do you think Dake would beat Cooperman, who never won a title?

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Assuming Cooperman makes weight, Dake would beat him.

A healthy Caldwell is the third best of the 2008 149ers. Burroughs is clearly the best. Caldwell, Metcalf and Jenkins are in a triangle for who is second best. Caldwell better than Metcalf, Metcalf better than Jenkins, Jenkins better than Caldwell - I'll take Jenkins for second.

He is not better than the fourth most accomplished of that 2008 group.

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It would be interesting, sincei f he keep growing it seems like he'd inevitably run into David Taylor and possibly Andrew Howe.

 

 

Howe has one year left, if Dake "keeps going up" it wouldn't matter when people are gone. Taylor is also expected to go up next year and then beyond.

 

157 is the most cleared out weight class for next year, so perfect for Dake to move in to.

 

Most people seem to be operating under the assumption that HOwe will be taking an Oly RS.

 

Ahhh.

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If Dake is so great, why didn't he go 157 this year and Villalonga 149? Because 149 was an empty weight class.

 

You can't say it was empty before Caldwell's injury. Even though he has only 1 title and 2 AAs, he'll go down as one of the all time greats for the beatings he put on top guys. Especially Metcalf (and Schlatter, Palmer, JPOC)

 

Dake didn't dodge a bullet when Caldwell went down, he dodget a missile. Jeje

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If Dake is so great, why didn't he go 157 this year and Villalonga 149? Because 149 was an empty weight class.

 

You can't say it was empty before Caldwell's injury. Even though he has only 1 title and 2 AAs, he'll go down as one of the all time greats for the beatings he put on top guys. Especially Metcalf (and Schlatter, Palmer, JPOC)

 

Dake didn't dodge a bullet when Caldwell went down, he dodget a missile. Jeje

 

After Caldwell left the match with Grajales, I kinda figured Grajales might be good enough to advance to wrestle Dake. I was surprised when that didn't even happen.

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If Dake is so great, why didn't he go 157 this year and Villalonga 149? Because 149 was an empty weight class.

 

You can't say it was empty before Caldwell's injury. Even though he has only 1 title and 2 AAs, he'll go down as one of the all time greats for the beatings he put on top guys. Especially Metcalf (and Schlatter, Palmer, JPOC)

 

Dake didn't dodge a bullet when Caldwell went down, he dodget a missile. Jeje

 

 

sure, no one beats the Caldwell that hammered Metcalf a couple years ago. But you guys are being silly if you think Darrion maintained that level of performance over his career. A lot of it was due to injury, sure, but Dake certainly beats the Caldwell that lost to Mike Roberts, from Boston, or the App state guy. He's also more than capable of beating the injured 2010 version.

 

It's like me saying that a healthy Troy Nickerson would definitely have won 3 titles. It's disrespectful to the guys who won on the mat.

 

Staying healthy is part of it- like it or not

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^^^SCRIBE My Friend, You thought Grajales could beat Sanjaa?!?! Just as crazy, I thought Sanjaa might upset Dake.

 

I hear ya, AB. It's too bad Caldwell couldn't wrestle up to his potential. Having good parts is just one set of tools for a great wrestler.

 

I was curious to see how Sanjaa might do, too. Looked like he was tentative to go takedowns with Dake, for whatever reason. Never seemed to get it going.

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If Dake is so great, why didn't he go 157 this year and Villalonga 149? Because 149 was an empty weight class.

 

You can't say it was empty before Caldwell's injury. Even though he has only 1 title and 2 AAs, he'll go down as one of the all time greats for the beatings he put on top guys. Especially Metcalf (and Schlatter, Palmer, JPOC)

 

Dake didn't dodge a bullet when Caldwell went down, he dodget a missile. Jeje

 

 

sure, no one beats the Caldwell that hammered Metcalf a couple years ago. But you guys are being silly if you think Darrion maintained that level of performance over his career. A lot of it was due to injury, sure, but Dake certainly beats the Caldwell that lost to Mike Roberts, from Boston, or the App state guy. He's also more than capable of beating the injured 2010 version.

 

It's like me saying that a healthy Troy Nickerson would definitely have won 3 titles. It's disrespectful to the guys who won on the mat.

 

Staying healthy is part of it- like it or not

 

Caldwell lost to Roberts, what 4 years ago?

 

You do realize that Caldwell was 51-1 over the last 2 years, the only loss being an injury default. Dake dodged a freaking nuclear warhead.

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I agree with otter. Injuries are part of the deal. What made Walter Payton the greatest running back in history? The fact that after 13 years he missed ONE game and that was in his last year. The man took punishment beyond words over a decade. Bo Jackson had the POTENTIAL to being the best ever....only thing was that Bo got injured and his career ended. Sucks but woulda coulda shoulda doesn't make the record books now does it?

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Caldwell lost to Roberts, what 4 years ago?

 

You do realize that Caldwell was 51-1 over the last 2 years, the only loss being an injury default. Dake dodged a freaking nuclear warhead.

 

What happened Caldwell's first two years? Did he win any titles?

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Caldwell lost to Roberts, what 4 years ago?

 

You do realize that Caldwell was 51-1 over the last 2 years, the only loss being an injury default. Dake dodged a freaking nuclear warhead.

 

What happened Caldwell's first two years? Did he win any titles?

 

So who was better during their first two years, Dake or Caldwell? I think scribe has a good point here. Is it possible that Dake hasn't peaked yet, just like Caldwell hadn't during his first two years? Maybe, and this is the scary part, Dake isn't anywhere near his potential? Just look at when Dake was in high school, he couldn't beat Ian Paddock for anything. Now look at the two. Dake has far surpassed Paddock, who is a very good wrestler BTW for Tom Ryan. Also, look at high school again when Dake lost to Grajales at Nationals. Everyone (outside NY) thought Dake was overrated and that Grajales was the second coming. Now Grajales is a fantastic wrestler and I like the kid, but it seems like Dake has just been getting better and better at a much faster rate than his peers. At this rate, who knows?

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If I have learned anything from watching wrestling is that no matter how good a kid is nothing is a guarantee. I don't care how good someone appears anything can happen. Injury, bad tournament, get worse as a wrestler, etc.

 

Before this tourney there was a lot of people thinking that Dake was gonna be more like Dustin Schlatter than Pat Smith. That is why it is silly to talk about but hey the season is over, wtf else we gonna talk about.

 

My two cents is that he will not be a 4 timer. I see him getting beat by Taylor at 57 next year. I know people have been saying Taylor his going 65 but he did not seem to me to be a big 57 pounder. I think Bubba proved that once he locked that cradle up. He could have held him there for the whole 7 minutes.

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I don't think it makes much sense to say Caldwell didn't win any titles his first two years and then say that makes Dake better than Caldwell was as a freshmen and sophomore.

 

Would Dake beat Ryan Lang and Derek Moore as a true freshmen? Dake is very good, and has 2 titles, but he didn't have to wrestle anyone as good as either one of those two last year at 141.

 

Would Dake have beaten Metcalf, Palmer, Jenkins, or Burroughs as a sophomore at 149, which is who Caldwell had to deal with? Certainly can make the argument he probably does not.

 

It's all relative to the competition at hand. Caldwell seems to have had tougher competition at his weights his first two years when compared to Dake. That doesn't take anything away from Dake, it is just facts.

 

It can also be argued, if Caldwell doesn't get hurt, we aren't even talking about Dake right now having two titles. I know scribe will probably have some sarcastic comeback for this because he takes offense, but it is what it is.

 

No one can take his 2 NCAA titles away from him, but we can all talk about what if's.

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We can talk about what if's all day long about countless topics can't we? Mario Lemiux (sp?) could have been the greatest hockey player of all time had he not been diagnosed with cancer. Unfortunately, he was diagnosed. Also, you never know. Some people peak early, some late. I'm a huge boxing fan and I remember Terry Norris who had a number of losses during the early part of his career. Toward the middle and later points of his career he was considered one of the best pound for pound fighters in the world. Some guys, like Donald Curry was seen as the next best thing and got KO'd by Mike McCallum and Curry was never the same again. The point is just because Caldwell had a great season during his Jr. year doesn't mean that he would have kept up that momentum OR that nobody else would have risen up just like he did when he was a Jr. All that is being talked about here is pure SPECULATION. That is it. Sorry, but speculation doesn't count of your record. Upsets happen as well. The Colts lost to the Jets with Namath (Supuer Bowl 3), The United States Hockey Team defeated the Russians in 1980 (Miracle on Ice), Rulon Gardner beats Alexander Karelin (2000 Olympics), Appalacian St. beat Michiagan, Tyson lost to Douglas, I mean I can go on. So please with this notion that Caldwell would have DEFINETLY defeated Dake. We just don't know. Upsets happen all the time. BTW, I wish Caldwell all the best, God Bless you man aand I hope he will get to represent the US internationally.

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I don't think Caldwell would have fared well against a healthy Corey Jantzen. Can you imagine if Schlatter never got hurt?

 

If I didn't blow out my knee, and was not generally a bad wrestler, I could have won 5 D1 NCAA titles. That's never been done before!

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I don't think Caldwell would have fared well against a healthy Corey Jantzen. Can you imagine if Schlatter never got hurt?

 

I don't know considering Caldwell be Schaub the oly representative in his first tournament in free style in almost 4 years, and the fact that he only did 2 years in free anyway, I would say yes, Caldwell could beat Jantzen. I think all those guys Caldwell, Metcalf, DS (when healthy), Burroughs, are all abetter than Jantzen. Heck DS as a frosh beat Zack Esposito worse than a Sr, Jantzen did. I have to agree if DS never got hurt he was going to be a beast, although, he wasn't hurt his sophomore year when he lsot to Gregor, so I don't know.

 

Either way, that '08 149 class was just sick with talent. I think Dake is good , but he's still never faced competition that sick, Hell Burroughs in winning his 157 crown 2 years ago had to beat 2 NCAA champs, and a 2x runner up. Dake to me is almost as good as say Lance Palmer, I think he's great, but I still think that he'd have been humbled by Caldwell, was granted good fortune with a RS Russell and won the weakest class at NCAA's at 141. This is not saying that Dake isn't great, but touting him as the 2nd coming, is overboard simply put he hasn't been tested. Metcalf was tested, the guy dismantled NCAA champions to win his title, Caldwell dismantled champs and AA's, Burroughs dismantled NCAA champs on route to his titles, Jenkins well ....???? ... I think the Unicorn ran into a beast, who was alot more tested than what he could throw at him. Dake is great, I still think he's a notch below those guys, simply because they had to beat so many superb wrestlers to win their titles. YOu are comparing him to guys who may have only 1 or 2 titles and will go down as all time greats, I think Dake can get there, will see, but he needs his Frazier to prove it. Either that or do something exceptional , people, don't talk about Pat Smith as being an all-time great even though he won 4 NCAA championships, is my point.

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I don't think Caldwell would have fared well against a healthy Corey Jantzen. Can you imagine if Schlatter never got hurt?

 

I don't know considering Caldwell be Schaub the oly representative in his first tournament in free style in almost 4 years, and the fact that he only did 2 years in free anyway, I would say yes, Caldwell could beat Jantzen. I think all those guys Caldwell, Metcalf, DS (when healthy), Burroughs, are all abetter than Jantzen. Heck DS as a frosh beat Zack Esposito worse than a Sr, Jantzen did. I have to agree if DS never got hurt he was going to be a beast, although, he wasn't hurt his sophomore year when he lsot to Gregor, so I don't know.

 

Either way, that '08 149 class was just sick with talent. I think Dake is good , but he's still never faced competition that sick, Hell Burroughs in winning his 157 crown 2 years ago had to beat 2 NCAA champs, and a 2x runner up. Dake to me is almost as good as say Lance Palmer, I think he's great, but I still think that he'd have been humbled by Caldwell, was granted good fortune with a RS Russell and won the weakest class at NCAA's at 141. This is not saying that Dake isn't great, but touting him as the 2nd coming, is overboard simply put he hasn't been tested. Metcalf was tested, the guy dismantled NCAA champions to win his title, Caldwell dismantled champs and AA's, Burroughs dismantled NCAA champs on route to his titles, Jenkins well ....???? ... I think the Unicorn ran into a beast, who was alot more tested than what he could throw at him. Dake is great, I still think he's a notch below those guys, simply because they had to beat so many superb wrestlers to win their titles. YOu are comparing him to guys who may have only 1 or 2 titles and will go down as all time greats, I think Dake can get there, will see, but he needs his Frazier to prove it. Either that or do something exceptional , people, don't talk about Pat Smith as being an all-time great even though he won 4 NCAA championships, is my point.

Joe Frazier (before the 15th round in Manilla): "I want him, boss."

Eddie Futch: "It's all over. No one will forget what you did here today."

If Futch had allowed Frazier to go out for the 15th round, he'd be 2-1 over Clay Ali. Admit it, Acadia! ;)

.

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