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Zahid vs Burroughs

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9 minutes ago, rpm002 said:

Lee vs any of the top 61 kg guys (Graff, Colon, Gross, etc.) would have been really interesting.  I think all of those could have gone either way.

Sanders did hit a pretty nice arm throw for 4 against Ramos once.  Doubt he can do anything like that against Lee though.

Aside for Gilman, Fix, and MAYBE Suriano I just don't see anyone keeping it close at 57 or 61 

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On 10/8/2020 at 3:15 PM, nhs67 said:

Aside for Gilman, Fix, and MAYBE Suriano I just don't see anyone keeping it close at 57 or 61 

I mean, Graff has very rarely been blown out by anyone domestically (the couple where he did lose big such as to Nico and Steiber were vs guys he has also defeated).

  He lost to Gilman 1-1 in their only meeting and that was at 57kg and I think he's clearly better at 61kg.  So not sure why he wouldn't keep it close.  I think Colon would be right there with Lee as well.  Lee will keep getting better and those guys are towards the end of their careers, so that may not be true for long, but I think it is true for now.

Edited by rpm002

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1 hour ago, rpm002 said:

I mean, Graff has never been blown out by anyone domestically (except Steiber several years ago).  He lost to Gilman 1-1 in their only meeting and that was at 57kg and I think he's clearly better at 61kg.  So not sure why he wouldn't keep it close.  I think Colon would be right there with Lee as well.  Lee will keep getting better and those guys are towards the end of their careers, so that may not be true for long, but I think it is true for now.

Wrong.  He's got slew 6-2/7-2 type losses over the course since 2016 as well as a 10-0 drubbing to Nico.

 

Where are you getting your info from?

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5 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Aside for Gilman, Fix, and MAYBE Suriano I just don't see anyone keeping it close at 57 or 61 

Suriano always wrestles tight matches because he has top-flight head-hands defense. I'm going to say, with the qualifier of at the senior world elite level, Suriano may get blown out of matches but will not get blown out on the scoreboard. He has a great Eastern Euro-tactic match style but has a US gas tank where he has heavy hands, doesn't get opened up, and waits for the one or two perfect openings to look like he gives a $hit and take a real shot; he can also sprawl, scramble, square his hips, and continually motion and try to find a good opening. I wish he could put it all together and represent Italy because he most likely will not ever rep the US but could bring in multiple world medals.

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29 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

Suriano always wrestles tight matches because he has top-flight head-hands defense. I'm going to say, with the qualifier of at the senior world elite level, Suriano may get blown out of matches but will not get blown out on the scoreboard. He has a great Eastern Euro-tactic match style but has a US gas tank where he has heavy hands, doesn't get opened up, and waits for the one or two perfect openings to look like he gives a $hit and take a real shot; he can also sprawl, scramble, square his hips, and continually motion and try to find a good opening. I wish he could put it all together and represent Italy because he most likely will not ever rep the US but could bring in multiple world medals.

Precisely why I said MAYBE Suriano.  It could be a 4-2 style match against Lee and it might not even be close.

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19 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Precisely why I said MAYBE Suriano.  It could be a 4-2 style match against Lee and it might not even be close.

Definitely on the same page, just wanted to steal your thunder and give the ol' Adam Schefter expansion of the main point to get some clicks

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12 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Also: BIG fan of seeing him rep Italy.

Does he has recent ancestry from Italy or just an Italian sounding last name?

I know that a lot smaller countries without any real presence in the a sport (Lebanon, San Marino, etc.) will allow someone to represent them at the worlds without strong ancestral ties. Is this true of Italy as well, that does not have a strong wrestling tradition, but certainly is world class in other Olympic sports?

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4 minutes ago, Jim L said:

Does he has recent ancestry from Italy or just an Italian sounding last name?

I know that a lot smaller countries without any real presence in the a sport (Lebanon, San Marino, etc.) will allow someone to represent them at the worlds without strong ancestral ties. Is this true of Italy as well, that does not have a strong wrestling tradition, but certainly is world class in other Olympic sports?

I'm ignorant as to the possibility of it or of Suriano's actual heritage.

Flo as well as a few other bloggers went nuts when he was the one escorting Chamizo around NYC a couple years back as well as Chamizo escorting him around Rome esrlier this year.

Edited by nhs67
Fat fingers

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14 hours ago, Jim L said:

Does he has recent ancestry from Italy or just an Italian sounding last name?

I know that a lot smaller countries without any real presence in the a sport (Lebanon, San Marino, etc.) will allow someone to represent them at the worlds without strong ancestral ties. Is this true of Italy as well, that does not have a strong wrestling tradition, but certainly is world class in other Olympic sports?

Have you heard of Frank Chamizo?

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On 10/10/2020 at 8:41 AM, nhs67 said:

The guy that emigrated from Cuba and isn't Italian?

He is Italian now, considering he has citizenship.

However, you feel about athletes competing for other countries, he does not fit any of stereotypes. He did get "pseudo" citizenship just to compete because he could not make the Cuban national team

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33 minutes ago, Jim L said:

He is Italian now, considering he has citizenship.

However, you feel about athletes competing for other countries, he does not fit any of stereotypes. He did get "pseudo" citizenship just to compete because he could not make the Cuban national team

What?

You're new here. Obviously.

I am all for Americans seeking citizenship to compete elsewhere, if they can.

I am all for Chamizo competing for Italy.

If they follow the rules to get to where they are, then why not?

That said, Myles Amine and Stevan Micic are American.

Chamizo is Cuban.

Just because you put a goose in the henhouse it doesn't make it a chicken.  It still hatched from a goose egg.

Additionally Chamizo'a reason for leaving Cuba was as as you get.  It's well known and documented.

Edited by nhs67
Added end bit about Nah Bro

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You don't need ancestral ties to change wrestling federations. you just need the federation to get you a passport from that country. Adam Batirov is from Dagestan and has no ancestral ties to Bahrain. There are lots of examples of Russian wrestling for other countries without familial connections. Dagestanis in Macedonia, Ossetians in Slovakia, Opan Sat to Turkey, etc etc. The way it the often works is the folks in charge of olympic sports in whatever countries hires a coach from Russia who brings several wrestlers with him and they all get passports. 

That said, all the Michigan guys do have strong family connections to the countries they now wrestle for. 

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10 hours ago, nhs67 said:

What?

You're new here. Obviously.

I am all for Americans seeking citizenship to compete elsewhere, if they can.

I am all for Chamizo competing for Italy.

If they follow the rules to get to where they are, then why not?

That said, Myles Amine and Stevan Micic are American.

Chamizo is Cuban.

Just because you put a goose in the henhouse it doesn't make it a chicken.  It still hatched from a goose egg.

Additionally Chamizo'a reason for leaving Cuba was as as you get.  It's well known and documented.

He is an Italian citizen from Cuba. I don't know, but strongly doubt he has dual citizenship. I agree that Micic and Amine are American and I am happy to see that they can compete internationally and I root for them as much as if they were wearing a team USA singlet

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Italy also has Abraham Conyedo and Givi Davidovi on their team. Davidovi is from Georgia and Conyedo is from Cuba. I don't know their stories, but like Chamizo, they both represented other countries before wrestling for Italy, so it would appear that the federation doesn't have a problem with importing starters. 

Edited by Jaroslav Hasek

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1 hour ago, Plasmodium said:

Is the rule that a competitor has to be a citizen for two years? 

I don't see anything in the rules about having to be a citizen for any amount of time, just that you need a passport. You do have to sit out 3 years if you wrestled in a world or continental event or an Olympics or Olympic qualifying event (if I'm reading the rules correctly). It also costs the new federation 10,000 swiss francs (usually around 1 to 1 with the US dollar) minimum per transfer altho the host nation has to pay more depending on the accolades already earned by the transferring wrestler. 300,000 francs for an Olympic gold medalist. A federation can also only accept one transfer per style per age division per year.

If you can get a wrestler a passport and have 10K and he or she hasn't competed in any major events for the original federation and you haven't received any other transfers that year, I believe you can submit your paperwork in December and have the wrestler eligible on January 1 the next month. 

I think that's all the major restrictions but there may have missed something in the rules. 

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