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nhs67

No worlds...

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I only listened to the first 10 minutes of that press conference so far but they did address the "survey."   They also offered up that the recipients were only given 3 days to respond.     Yes, of the respondents she quoted about 30% yes/30% no.   However seems like it's a strong possibility that many did not see it or weren't quick enough to respond within the 3 day window given.

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14 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I only listened to the first 10 minutes of that press conference so far but they did address the "survey."   They also offered up that the recipients were only given 3 days to respond.     Yes, of the respondents she quoted about 30% yes/30% no.   However seems like it's a strong possibility that many did not see it or weren't quick enough to respond within the 3 day window given.

I'm going to take a wild guess here. about 40%?

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7 minutes ago, gimpeltf said:

I'm going to take a wild guess here. about 40%?

No my understanding was the 30% yes and no was only among people that responded.    I forget the exact terminology but I think the remaining was either not sure or "need more info"

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1 minute ago, 1032004 said:

No my understanding was the 30% yes and no was only among people that responded.    I forget the exact terminology but I think the remaining was either not sure or "need more info"

  • Could be. Gotcha. Spoilsport! I enjoyed it for a while! 

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1 hour ago, Lurker said:

I've seen the twitters etc.  There is no proof their process was bogus.  There was proof not everyone agreed with this decision (which they stated in the teleconference), but that is not at all proof the process was bogus.  People who have nothing to do with the process bitching about the decision is not proof the process is bogus.

Enjoy the pool with the kiddos.  Great times!

I, admittedly, may still just be peeved to the point of irate still to view this as level headed as quite a few of you.

I am also of the mind this has all been a 'plandemic' as someone previously posted here, which pissed me off even more.  Our sport was on the up and up.  Now it seems even the highest authority we have, in USAW, doesn't give two $HlT$ about saving our sport.  So they bit recall nearly having it cut a few years back by the IOC?

Fight for what you believe in.  I believe in wrestling.  To any and all lacking the testicular fortitude to prove they're the better men or women at worlds: You don't deserve to be there.

These are my opinions.

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1 hour ago, nhs67 said:

 Now it seems even the highest authority we have, in USAW, doesn't give two $HlT$ about saving our sport.  So they bit recall nearly having it cut a few years back by the IOC?

These are my opinions.

I’m not saying this to continue to be argumentative, but if you’ve had personal interaction and conversations with those involved in the decision, you’d know this statement couldn’t be further from the truth.  There is so much more that goes into these decisions that people on the outside don’t see/don’t want to see. But I can guarantee you, not giving two ****s about saving our sport couldn’t be further from accurate. 

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20 minutes ago, Lurker said:

But I can guarantee you, not giving two ****s about saving our sport couldn’t be further from accurate. 

With where we were a few years ago in worrying about not having a spot at the Olympics, I feel I have no choice but to disagree wholeheartedly.

If we're canceling ourselves from our biggest events... why have them at all?

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16 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

With where we were a few years ago in worrying about not having a spot at the Olympics, I feel I have no choice but to disagree wholeheartedly.

If we're canceling ourselves from our biggest events... why have them at all?

Well like I said, if you’ve ever had any personal interaction with them....

And this is not cancelling ourselves from our biggest eventS. This is ONE event, which is an impromptu tournament put together after the Olympics were cancelled, a defacto astericks world championship that is not going to see the worlds very best, IF it happens at all, in an arena that has just been made to into a makeshift hospital to cope with the host countries surging status with the pandemic. Let’s look at this potential, potential, tournament for what it really is, and not for what it’s not. This years world is not one of USAW or UWW’s biggest event. It’s been given that label, but in reality it’s not. 
 

Like I said, there is so much that goes into these decisions that the general public does not see or chooses not to see. But those aspects are very important. It’s so much more than, well you hosted a national tournament so what’s the problem. I get the disappointment. I’m disappointed as well. But to take it to the extreme of they just don’t give a **** about saving wrestling?  It’s literally their life, their careers, careers they’ve worked very hard at for a very long time. You can honestly sit there and say you don’t think Bruce Baumgartner gives a **** about saving wrestling????  Come on man. 

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What doesn't make sense is that the International Judo Federation is holding a Grand Slam event in Hungary starting tomorrow.  USA Judo is sending 13 athletes to compete.  If USA Judo is sending athletes and a delegation to compete in Europe, it does not make sense that USA Wrestling would skip the World Championships. 

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54 minutes ago, ShakaAloha said:

What doesn't make sense is that the International Judo Federation is holding a Grand Slam event in Hungary starting tomorrow.  USA Judo is sending 13 athletes to compete.  If USA Judo is sending athletes and a delegation to compete in Europe, it does not make sense that USA Wrestling would skip the World Championships. 

Worlds isn’t going to happen

December numbers are going to be very high. No chance they allow people to fly in from all over the world. 

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3 hours ago, ShakaAloha said:

What doesn't make sense is that the International Judo Federation is holding a Grand Slam event in Hungary starting tomorrow.  USA Judo is sending 13 athletes to compete.  If USA Judo is sending athletes and a delegation to compete in Europe, it does not make sense that USA Wrestling would skip the World Championships. 

It makes sense in the sense that it’s not the same people making the separate decisions. Can you provide any information as to how USA judo went through processes to make this decision? The ‘makes sense’ part isn’t in the finality, but in the process. 

Edited by Lurker

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10 hours ago, Lurker said:

Well like I said, if you’ve ever had any personal interaction with them....

And this is not cancelling ourselves from our biggest eventS. This is ONE event, which is an impromptu tournament put together after the Olympics were cancelled, a defacto astericks world championship that is not going to see the worlds very best, IF it happens at all, in an arena that has just been made to into a makeshift hospital to cope with the host countries surging status with the pandemic. Let’s look at this potential, potential, tournament for what it really is, and not for what it’s not. This years world is not one of USAW or UWW’s biggest event. It’s been given that label, but in reality it’s not. 
 

Like I said, there is so much that goes into these decisions that the general public does not see or chooses not to see. But those aspects are very important. It’s so much more than, well you hosted a national tournament so what’s the problem. I get the disappointment. I’m disappointed as well. But to take it to the extreme of they just don’t give a **** about saving wrestling?  It’s literally their life, their careers, careers they’ve worked very hard at for a very long time. You can honestly sit there and say you don’t think Bruce Baumgartner gives a **** about saving wrestling????  Come on man. 

I understand what you are saying.  I am reading the tea leaves quite differently, so I disagree on many parts.  Yes that means it appears they don't care about their own sport they put all this effort towards for so long.  It's cowardice.

9 hours ago, ShakaAloha said:

What doesn't make sense is that the International Judo Federation is holding a Grand Slam event in Hungary starting tomorrow.  USA Judo is sending 13 athletes to compete.  If USA Judo is sending athletes and a delegation to compete in Europe, it does not make sense that USA Wrestling would skip the World Championships. 

Rather my point.  These other sports that we put so much less effort towards as a country are sending teams to their pinnacle event.  Yet we balk.  It's cowardice.

Edited by nhs67
Added stuffs for dramatix

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27 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

I understand what you are saying.  I am reading the tea leaves quite differently, so I disagree on many parts.  Yes that means it appears they don't care about their own sport they put all this effort towards for so long.  It's cowardice.

Rather my point.  These other sports that we put so much less effort towards as a country are sending teams to their pinnacle event.  Yet we balk.  It's cowardice.

I'll just say I'm sorry you feel that way, and agree to disagree

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10 hours ago, ShakaAloha said:

What doesn't make sense is that the International Judo Federation is holding a Grand Slam event in Hungary starting tomorrow.  USA Judo is sending 13 athletes to compete.  If USA Judo is sending athletes and a delegation to compete in Europe, it does not make sense that USA Wrestling would skip the World Championships. 

Interesting data point.

Have there been many other amateur international events actually happen with competitors coming from all over the world?  I did a brief search and didn’t find much (although apparently it seems track & field only hold championships every other year and did in 2019).  

The weightlifting championships will be online apparently - https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1097734/iwf-youth-world-championships-cancelled

Swimming was moved to 2021 (although I think was scheduled for earlier this year) - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-swimming-idUSKBN22X1IZ

Edited by 1032004

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15 hours ago, Lurker said:

It makes sense in the sense that it’s not the same people making the separate decisions. Can you provide any information as to how USA judo went through processes to make this decision? The ‘makes sense’ part isn’t in the finality, but in the process. 

The reason we are sending athletes to the Grand Slam in Hungary is because they can earn qualifying points for the Olympics.  Currently we have 1 out of 7 weights qualified for men, and 2 out of 7 for the women.  If USA Judo were to prohibit our athletes from going to the IJF Olympic qualifying events and other countries allowed their athletes to compete, the ranking of the 3 American judo athletes that are presently qualified for the Olympics would slip and we might have no athletes representing us in judo at the Olympics.  

Qualification for judo is different than wrestling.  An athlete qualifies him or herself individually for the Olympics by earning placement points at IJF Olympic qualifying events. Top-32 at each weight qualify for the Olympics, but only one rep per country.  If a country has 2 guys in the top-32, then it is up to the country's NGB to select the athlete that they want to send.  The spot for the athlete being left home would go to the athlete with the next highest point total on the ranking list.

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8 minutes ago, ShakaAloha said:

The reason we are sending athletes to the Grand Slam in Hungary is because they can earn qualifying points for the Olympics.  Currently we have 1 out of 7 weights qualified for men, and 2 out of 7 for the women.  If USA Judo were to prohibit our athletes from going to the IJF Olympic qualifying events and other countries allowed their athletes to compete, the ranking of the 3 American judo athletes that are presently qualified for the Olympics would slip and we might have no athletes representing us in judo at the Olympics.  

Qualification for judo is different than wrestling.  An athlete qualifies him or herself individually for the Olympics by earning placement points at IJF Olympic qualifying events. Top-32 at each weight qualify for the Olympics, but only one rep per country.  If a country has 2 guys in the top-32, then it is up to the country's NGB to select the athlete that they want to send.  The spot for the athlete being left home would go to the athlete with the next highest point total on the ranking list.

Thank you for that information, I appreciate it.  And I can see why one decision is totally irrelevant to the other. 

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Greco team member comments - https://fivepointmove.com/usa-greco/national-team-not-going-20-worlds/?fbclid=IwAR2KCOIKC24xJ6HlnRc7EyCU0JMKXS3wA7Wg73FjVEYWxtnnFkM8F2ZuaEo

Brady Koontz (60 kg, TMWC/Ohio RTC, 5PM #12) — 2019 World Team Trials Champion, ’19 Final X runner-up, ’19 U23 World Team, ’18 Junior World Team

“When I first saw it I was pretty upset. I know that as long as UWW (United World Wrestling) is taking the right precautions with COVID that everyone should be fine. I don’t think there were any issues at Senior Nationals or any tournaments that are going on. I was upset that they decided not to send anyone because I know that we’re starting to do better in Greco-Roman internationally, starting with Max (Nowry) getting fifth at the Worlds last year. I think it’s disappointing that USA Wrestling decided not to send anyone because I think it is important for us to get that international competition instead of just wrestling other Americans all of the time. And it is a lot harder to do that when you can’t go overseas.”

Max Nowry (60 kg, Army/WCAP, world #3 at 55 kg, 5PM #3) — 2019 World Team, two-time US National Champion, three-time Pan-Am Championships gold, ’12 University World Champion

“When we received the email with the survey asking us about this year’s Worlds and if we would participate, I wrote a clear ‘strongly disagree’ across the board. Whether I’m injured or not injured, with Serbia’s (COVID case) numbers spiking, I don’t think wrestling needs to jump into that. If Tokyo is a big thing in everyone’s minds, then I do not think we should be jumping into this as a sport.

“We just had a tournament that was done domestically and USA Wrestling did a very good job of controlling a lot of factors to ensure there was no spread and that everything went smoothly; but when you are talking about an international competition, there is travel and a lot of other things USA Wrestling and UWW can’t control. It wasn’t safe for our athletes. It would suck if it did go on and our athletes can’t compete in it, but I think down the road the bigger picture is Tokyo and that is what we should be looking to make sure happens instead of a World Championships that happens between now and then.

"The biggest thing is the travel. When USA Wrestling held the US Nationals, they controlled a lot of factors and it was a smaller setting. This whole situation sucks. Everyone wants to wrestle. The US Open was the first (Senior) tournament since the Pan-Am Olympic Qualifier. People are starting to go crazy, and hopefully, this sh*t comes to an end.”

Ray Bunker (67 kg, Marines, world #11 at 72 kg, 5PM #3) — 2019 World Team, ’19 US National Champion, ’20 Pan-Am Championships gold

“I really didn’t think about it. I had a feeling that the rest of this year would be cancelled. Something that we learn in the Marine Corps is to hope for the best but always expect the worst. That is kind of how I live my life, regardless of the circumstances with COVID-19. I appreciate USA Wrestling’s decision because they are looking out for the health and wellbeing of the athletes and the coaches. It is upsetting, but I do feel that they made the right decision.”

Ellis Coleman (67 kg, Army/WCAP, 5PM #1) — Four-time World Team, five-time US National Champion, ’12 Olympian)

“I thought it was a pretty good decision for USA Wrestling to not send a Team to Serbia. I think it is the fairest way across the board. Everyone has a fair chance. There were a lot of people pushing for it (to go) for different reasons and from different perspectives, and I can see why. I feel for those people, too, who want to have the chance to go to a World Championship and try to earn a belt. But — we left off at Olympic Trials. That was the most important thing at the time before COVID took off, and that is where we should pick it back up. When the NBA, MLB, and NFL started their seasons back up, they didn’t start their seasons with the intent for teams that didn’t have great records to have a better record just so they could make the playoffs. They started their seasons back up with everyone having a chance. Baseball even shortened their playoffs in the first few rounds.

“We left off at the Olympic Trials. I would love for people to have the opportunity to earn a World title, and I wouldn’t mind doing that, too. On behalf of those people, it is tough to find a middle ground because there are a lot of athletes who just very recently got back on the mat. Even if there were a World Team Trials tournament, it would be tough because people haven’t been training. Like us (Army), for example. We just got back on the mat, and I am sure there are other athletes who have been dealing with the same thing; and then there are other athletes who have been training the whole entire time and competed at the Nationals. I feel for those athletes.

“But the most solid ground for everyone would be the Olympic Trials. That’s where we left off, and it would give everyone enough time to see how COVID goes and how it responds within these next few months coming up, how well our economy is doing, and how all of these other countries across the world are doing. That way, we won’t get caught off guard like we did when it first happened. We will definitely be better prepared for it and all of the athletes will have more time to train and prepare for the Olympic Trials.”

Jamel Johnson (67 kg, Marines, 5PM #4) — 2019 World Team Trials Champion, ’19 Final-X runner-up, ’12 University World bronze

“To be honest, and this could be seen as arbitrary or uncommitted to the survey, I voted ‘neutral’ on just about everything. My opinion on the decision not to go is still neutral. Because, what did they say? They said if they decided to send someone that it wouldn’t count for anything; they said if they decided to send a Team and someone earned a medal, there wouldn’t be a Living the Dream medal fund bonus. Of course, yes, yes, everyone who wrestles does so for the pure love of the sport. But at the same time, wrestling is like the ‘gentleman’s poor man’s sport’. Like, yes, we love it, we love the fight; but we’re also trying to feed our families, we are trying to sustain our lives.

“During this weird time of COVID, when you say things like that, when that is the deciding factor whether or not we go to this tournament? Then it’s like, Fine, if that’s the case then I don’t really want to go. Yes, everyone would love to win a World title. Everyone. Everyone would love to bring back a medal, whatever it may be. But when they say things like that, it takes away from the glory of winning it, and the incentive of winning it because, again, this is the gentleman’s poor man’s sport. People are trying to support themselves right now, and I don’t know if they know, but people aren’t doing so well right now. Of course, we, the military, have a different lifestyle and we get paid on the 1st and the 15th. But I’m definitely not going to jeopardize my health on top of not having any type of incentive for going to this tournament.”

Ben Provisor (77 kg, NYAC/BVRTC, 5PM #3) — Two-time Olympian, two-time World Team, three-time US National Champion

“I understand the decision but I think it sucks. I think it became political as far as what we were going to do, and I don’t like that just because everything, especially now, has become political with the election going on. There is just a big divide in our country and I think if we would have had the chance to wrestle, it would have provided the chance for Americans to be together on something, especially during COVID, instead of apart. Not only is it COVID, there is also the election. I haven’t seen a split like this in America during my life, and I am sure not in a lot of people’s lives.

“So, I think that would have been good. But I also saw an article that John Stefanowicz posted and I guess the arena for the Worlds in Serbia was made into a COVID quarantine station. If they are quarantining people in that building who have COVID, then I understand USA Wrestling’s decision not to do it. It obviously still sucks not being able to wrestle and make some money for my family. I’m not going to say it doesn’t.”

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Provisor is right, or I guess Stefanowicz is right, the arena where the Worlds were supposed to take place is now a COVID quarantine. About 66 patients with mild symptoms have been moved there. If their situation worsens they`ll be transferred to hospitals.

Edited by Workers` Wrestling

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On 10/21/2020 at 3:59 PM, jp157 said:

I’m sorry you are scared of the hipsters playing at wannabe revolutionary. 
 

My brief double check of the DHS focused on their saying right wing terrorists were a greater threat, especially this year. 
 

People really need to get outside their bubbles and actually interact with different groups.. it would massively fix half of these issues. 

 

Let's revisit this gem. Both Philly police, National Guard and local residents claim outside agitators moved in to Philly the past 2 nights. All that violence there in Philly the past 2 nights that caused the National Guard to be called in, right wing terrorists huh? 

It does not have to be right wing terror (which does exist, never claimed otherwise) to be terror. Just ask those that live and work in those neighborhoods. They may lose the store owners over this. This isn't a bunch of "hipsters" just playing games. 

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3 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

 

Let's revisit this gem. Both Philly police, National Guard and local residents claim outside agitators moved in to Philly the past 2 nights. All that violence there in Philly the past 2 nights that caused the National Guard to be called in, right wing terrorists huh? 

It does not have to be right wing terror (which does exist, never claimed otherwise) to be terror. Just ask those that live and work in those neighborhoods. They may lose the store owners over this. This isn't a bunch of "hipsters" just playing games. 

I am NOT saying there is no right wing threat to our security.  There is.

However keep in mind that Iran, China, Russia have been playing games pretending to be right wingers and manipulating our election system.  Also some of the right wing threat and the antifa (or other left wing threats) are being manipulated by foreign actors (possibly financially and logistically)  to destabilize our nation and create a distrust in our democratic process.  They want us at each others throats.  And this isn't a conspiracy theory, it is fairly available info and I am paraphrasing a counter-insurgency expert.

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