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Ivy League just cancels all Winter Sports

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15 minutes ago, TheOhioState said:

That Covid virus is wet-your-pants kind of scary.

Interesting. My grandfather made it through WW2 but his daughter, my mother, didn’t make it through this pandemic. But you’re right, it’s nothing to worry about.

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22 hours ago, klehner said:

Your torture of the English language and use of logical fallacies renders this post unreadable.

Boy how many times have I called this type of response from people who get backed into a corner and are losing an argument...yep...first step call names, second step attack the grammar, final step say things like "I can't believe you think that, I am not even going to waste my breath on you anymore" (aka, I'm taking my ball and going home...).  You guys are entertaining and predictable to say the least.

I'll continue to wait for any sort of rational logical debate and/or data like I predicted I would have to in my post...oh wait...did I put the adjective in the wrong spot?  Damn...probably missed a coma somewhere...

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23 hours ago, Fletcher said:

I don't know why this isn't being considered, not for the ivy league, but across all NCAA wrestling. Illinois high school wrestling is doing this - it will get us out of cold/flu season and possibly past a point where most people are vaccinated. For NCAA, it also gets the NCAA tourney away from March Madness (and it's easier to cut weight in June than Feb.).

That is obviously the best way forward for wrestling this year.  I hope our State (CT) adopts that solution and I think that would be the best course in college also.  

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23 hours ago, dman115 said:

Holy crap...there it is...those darn bars and restaurants...they are the root cause of it all...SHUT THEM DOWN!!  But make sure we leave the Walmart's and Home Depot's open.  Don't stop the protests/looters/rioters.  Keep them grocery stores, casino's and strip clubs open.  But again shut those damn bars and restaurants down!!!!

Please...PLEASE...for the love of God someone show me ANY evidence that less people are wearing masks now than in March.  And please...PLEASE...show me the DATA (not inferences and opinions by someone who happens to have a PhD after their name) how masks are working to reduce the spread...I'll wait....

And I love the fact that you literally are suggesting we have a socialist system in this country...SMH...please leave and find a socialist country to live in and leave ours alone.

People wear masks at Home Depot.   I think the Great Clips example where 2 different symptomatic hairstylists failed to infect 100+ clients is a pretty good example of masks working - https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6928e2.htm

But people don’t wear masks at weddings/parties/family gatherings where there appears to be a lot of spread happening.

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2 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

People wear masks at Home Depot.   I think the Great Clips example where 2 different symptomatic hairstylists failed to infect 100+ clients is a pretty good example of masks working - https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6928e2.htm

But people don’t wear masks at weddings/parties/family gatherings where there appears to be a lot of spread happening.

Thanks 1032004...I have seen these examples...and again, I wear a mask and always have.  The bigger point I was trying to argue was around how some claim it is all about the "experts" and the "science" but then use conjecture and opinion as "science".  I believe masks work just based on logic...to a point...however, there has never been a true scientific blind controlled study of how well a CLOTH mask works for spreading it and/or protecting the wearer for contracting it.  They are using real life examples, see hairstylists example you mention above, and extrapolating those results to make week correlations and then call it "science.  Yes we scientifically know that N95 masks work when fitted properly to the individual...but to throw some cloth thing over ones face and claim they are now safe is a little concerning...wouldn't you agree?  I can get on board with a mask may make it a little SAFER but to say one is safe, no way (I know you aren't saying that).

The other point I was trying to make is the argument that the big box stores and other questionable establishments that are deemed "essential" can stay open and have been open this whole time while the small business, which would have had a MUCH easier time staying safe and clean, had to shut down and a lot of them lost their livelihoods.  That screams this isn't all about the virus...my opinion anyway.

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30 minutes ago, dman115 said:

Boy how many times have I called this type of response from people who get backed into a corner and are losing an argument...yep...first step call names, second step attack the grammar, final step say things like "I can't believe you think that, I am not even going to waste my breath on you anymore" (aka, I'm taking my ball and going home...).  You guys are entertaining and predictable to say the least.

I'll continue to wait for any sort of rational logical debate and/or data like I predicted I would have to in my post...oh wait...did I put the adjective in the wrong spot?  Damn...probably missed a coma somewhere...

comma* :)

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7 hours ago, dman115 said:

The other point I was trying to make is the argument that the big box stores and other questionable establishments that are deemed "essential" can stay open and have been open this whole time while the small business, which would have had a MUCH easier time staying safe and clean, had to shut down and a lot of them lost their livelihoods.  That screams this isn't all about the virus...my opinion anyway.

Spot on, dman. 

One more aspect to this "science". By closing all the smaller stores, all shoppers in a geographic region had to cram into fewer square feet of retail space. Had the smaller stores also been open from Day 1, the base of shoppers would have been spread out further. Scientifically it would seem obvious there would be less virus spread because people would have been further spread out. 

A case could also be made regarding curfews. Suppose 1000 people in a city want to go out to eat and drink tonite. Further suppose 500 of them tend to go out at 10pm and stay put until 2am. This fits the profile of many young people. But now let's model what happens with a 10pm curfew. Maybe those 500 young people, no longer able to party 10pm - 2am, go out and overlap the 6pm - 10pm crowd. Does that diminish the chance of spread, as intended by the curfew, or does it actually increase it? 

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7 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

A case could also be made regarding curfews. Suppose 1000 people in a city want to go out to eat and drink tonite. Further suppose 500 of them tend to go out at 10pm and stay put until 2am. This fits the profile of many young people. But now let's model what happens with a 10pm curfew. Maybe those 500 young people, no longer able to party 10pm - 2am, go out and overlap the 6pm - 10pm crowd. Does that diminish the chance of spread, as intended by the curfew, or does it actually increase it? 

If you are going to open the bars and restaurants, the curfew seems counterproductive, yes. I think the point of the curfew is less about the crowding and more about the increasingly suspect decision-making by people in bars as the clock moves from 10PM to 2AM.

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13 hours ago, ugarte said:

If you are going to open the bars and restaurants, the curfew seems counterproductive, yes. I think the point of the curfew is less about the crowding and more about the increasingly suspect decision-making by people in bars as the clock moves from 10PM to 2AM.

People who make "suspect" decisions are going to make them with or without curfews. They will just gather outside plain sight. Covid can then be transmitted out of plain sight and the curfew will have accomplished  little to nothing other than making life that much more difficult for struggling restaurant owners. 

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On 11/13/2020 at 7:34 PM, TheOhioState said:

That Covid virus is wet-your-pants kind of scary.

Total US deaths from WW2: 420,000

Total US deaths from Covid-19:   251,000 and increasing at >1,000 per day. 

 

I think it's safe to say that both are/were scary.

 

Edited by Billyhoyle

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34 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

People who make "suspect" decisions are going to make them with or without curfews. They will just gather outside plain sight. Covid can then be transmitted out of plain sight and the curfew will have accomplished  little to nothing other than making life that much more difficult for struggling restaurant owners. 

Keep fighting the good fight!

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1 hour ago, Billyhoyle said:

Total US deaths from WW2: 420,000

Total US deaths from Covid-19:   251,000 and increasing at >1,000 per day. 

 

I think it's safe to say that both are/were scary.

 

Covid deaths this year have, I am sure, passed single year deaths for WW2, and possibly for any year of the Civil war (600-750,000 deaths). I think WW2 Combat deaths were like 350,000, Covid will certainly pass that and even if several vaccines work, probably surpass 420,000.

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2 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

People who make "suspect" decisions are going to make them with or without curfews. They will just gather outside plain sight. Covid can then be transmitted out of plain sight and the curfew will have accomplished  little to nothing other than making life that much more difficult for struggling restaurant owners. 

It turns out that there are entire fields of research on design and behavioral psychology that show that policy and practice influence behavior and can reduce harm. Wild!

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1 hour ago, RichB said:

Covid deaths this year have, I am sure, passed single year deaths for WW2, and possibly for any year of the Civil war (600-750,000 deaths). I think WW2 Combat deaths were like 350,000, Covid will certainly pass that and even if several vaccines work, probably surpass 420,000.

It’s telling that the argument went from, “not worse than the flu” to “not worse than WW2.” 

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1 hour ago, nom said:

I’ve always been proud that the Ivy League has not let sports dominate their mission. Not surprised they are making this call.

Let's not get too holier than thou.  I doubt they would make this decision if Football/Basketball produced the type of revenue that it does at P5 schools.  Just look at the way every Ivy sells admission spots to the kids of big donors. 

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2 hours ago, RichB said:

Covid deaths this year have, I am sure, passed single year deaths for WW2, and possibly for any year of the Civil war (600-750,000 deaths). I think WW2 Combat deaths were like 350,000, Covid will certainly pass that and even if several vaccines work, probably surpass 420,000.

 

48 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

It’s telling that the argument went from, “not worse than the flu” to “not worse than WW2.” 

Are you saying RichB was suggesting low numbers? Please reread the post. He was suggesting they were higher than a year of WWII and maybe Civil War. And that after a year they would likely surpass WWII (the big one) in total.

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3 minutes ago, gimpeltf said:

 

Are you saying RichB was suggesting low numbers? Please reread the post. He was suggesting they were higher than a year of WWII and maybe Civil War. And that after a year they would likely surpass WWII (the big one) in total.

We are agreeing with each other.  A different poster brought up the comparison to WW2.  

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For those attempting to make a comparison of WW2 deaths and COVID, the advances in medical science/casevac technology make it impossible to do so (and they shouldn't be done in the first place).

If anything, Spanish flu is (at least) a virus. Go there,  not man-against-man against armed conflict (unless you're stating the CCP purposefully made COVID as an offensive weapon against humans, then you're data may be useful).

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2 hours ago, PSUSMC said:

For those attempting to make a comparison of WW2 deaths and COVID, the advances in medical science/casevac technology make it impossible to do so (and they shouldn't be done in the first place).

If anything, Spanish flu is (at least) a virus. Go there,  not man-against-man against armed conflict (unless you're stating the CCP purposefully made COVID as an offensive weapon against humans, then you're data may be useful).

Not diminishing the virus, but WW2 was pretty safe if you were in the continental US.  Not so safe if you were on the beaches of Normandy of June 6, 1944.  Or any number of horrible situations such as Stalingrad, Hiroshima, Bataan, etc, etc.  Lets get a grip here people.  

Edited by AHamilton

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On 11/15/2020 at 8:32 AM, Billyhoyle said:

Total US deaths from WW2: 420,000

Total World Wide deaths from Covid-19:   251,000 and increasing at >1,000 per day. 

 

I think it's safe to say that both are/were scary.

 

How scary is driving a car? 

Total World wideDeaths from Automobile Accidents: 1.25 million per year

Edited by TBar1977

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16 hours ago, AHamilton said:

Not diminishing the virus, but WW2 was pretty safe if you were in the continental US.  Not so safe if you were on the beaches of Normandy of June 6, 1944.  Or any number of horrible situations such as Stalingrad, Hiroshima, Bataan, etc, etc.  Lets get a grip here people.  

Same can be said for WW2 era Communist Oppression. Pretty safe if you lived under the blanket of freedom provided here in the US. Quite deadly to those who spoke out in favor of freedom and liberty in places like the USSR, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, the Balkans, China and then later in Cambodia, parts of Africa,  Cuba and parts of the Western Hemisphere. According to the Black Book of Communism (Harvard Press) you can add them all up and you have about 100 million lost lives. 

Estimated number of victims[edit]

According to the chapter, the number of people killed by the Communist governments amounts to more than 94 million.[8]:4 The statistics of victims include deaths through executions, man-made hunger, famine, war, deportations and forced labor. The breakdown of the number of deaths is given as follows:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Book_of_Communism#:~:text=The Black Book of Communism%3A Crimes%2C Terror%2C Repression is,deportations%2C killing populations in labor

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