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Burroughs vs Zahid Flo Event

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1 hour ago, IronChef said:

It will get forgotten because of the inappropriate mom talk, but Burroughs also said he didn't have enough horsepower at 74kg with same day weigh-ins. It was an interesting admission.

Is JB suggesting he will have to go up to 86 kg for the Olympics or just that making weight is tough for him?

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1 minute ago, NJDan said:

Is JB suggesting he will have to go up to 86 kg for the Olympics or just that making weight is tough for him?

I really doubt he wrestles Zahid and Taylor before trials if he had any thought of bumping up. I think there is less than zero chance he moves up. 

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32 minutes ago, NJDan said:

Is JB suggesting he will have to go up to 86 kg for the Olympics or just that making weight is tough for him?

No, he was just stating making same day 74kg takes the pop out of him.   In the interview after he arrived in Texas, he said he had really grown into 79kg, but 86kg was too big for him, and that the new weigh in rules really affected him (confirming what we all thought).  In calling out DT, he also said he would start the cut back down to 74kg after December.  

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Since Rofkin does not broadcast anything according to Martin, will JB insist on the match being streamed on his Rofkin channel, or will DT or NLWC get the match up.  Or will they actually do it on Flo, the biggest broadcaster but the least amount of "control" of the project and likely the most money for the event?

Edited by VakAttack

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1 minute ago, VakAttack said:

Since Rofkin does not broadcast anything according to Martin, will JB insist on the match being streamed on his Rofkin channel, or will DT or NLWC get the match up.  Or will they actually do it on Flo, the biggest broadcaster but the least amount of "control" of the project and likely the most money for the event?

Flo, but with technical difficulties during the match, leading to someone tweeting about it live.

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Didn’t  they basically say on FRL that they were trying to make it happen but it probably wouldn’t?  Unless they just meant not on Flo...  also didn’t Cael allude to the fact that NLWC had a big match for December?

Edited by 1032004

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16 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Didn’t  they basically say on FRL that they were trying to make it happen but it probably wouldn’t?  Unless they just meant not on Flo...  also didn’t Cael allude to the fact that NLWC had a big match for December?

Yes to both. But I believe it was Taylor who said on the last Rokfin broadcast that if Worlds did not happen the December NLWC event would be huge, or something like that. 

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I really enjoyed watching what happens when Echemendia goes up against someone several years older than him instead of vice versa.


There are at least 3 B1G 141s that will wreck him.

Lee, Eiermann, Rivera.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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10 hours ago, LJB said:

My guess is he is 74kg no matter what next year... 

but...

he is planning on another quad... 

this was a test...

I'm skeptical about 2024, but agree, he's going 74 next year.

As for the match, that was an impressive second period, and from my (admittedly distant) perspective, he broke Zahid.  Oddly enough, when Zahid could only convert that first single of the second period into a step out, I thought Jordan might well take it.  Valencia just looked exhausted.

Assuming Dake just ignores the second period, as any delusional champion would, I suspect his confidence will grow, and I cannot wait for Trials.  That series could well be the most watched, and eventually famous, wrestling match(es) in American history. 

Regarding the Echemendia match, I was really shocked by his lack of explosiveness, as well as the relative ease with which Henderson moved him around the mat.  Maybe Henderson's just better than I thought, but he certainly didn't look like a worldbeater against Alirez at Senior Nationals.

Was Echemendia over-trained, nursing a niggling injury, or just not quite as good as some of us assumed?  Who knows, but I still don't see Lee & Eierman walking through him (as someone claimed earlier), and if we get a folkstyle season, I suspect he'll be right there in March.

Since I only saw the "No Filler" re-broadcast, Gadsen's injury wasn't discussed, and I'm curious what happened.  It looked like a groin shot, or upper thigh injury in the moment, but his audible reaction afterwards, and subsequent, immediate match termination, suggest something potentially more serious.  He certainly looked to have made some key adjustments, and I hope he's not sidelined for too long.

Finally, Berger looked really impressive against Sasso.  I don't know who was generally favored, but I didn't expect him to finish so cleanly, and so often against such a defensively gifted wrestler like Sasso, and I'll be following his Senior level career pretty closely.

Although some of the scoring seemed way off, especially early, I really enjoyed the card, and am excited for whatever's next.

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Regarding Gadsen, at first it seemed like a knee to the groin but on replay that didn't happen.  Tweaked it without any direct contact from Moore, and he was in a lot of pain even well after the match ended.

I think Ech at 141 is the actual plan after that Henderson match, while obviously quite muscular he isn't all that big - Henderson was noticeably bigger/taller and moved him around the mat.   It's what a lot of people have been saying but I didn't believe it until yesterday.  

Agree about Berger, was really impressed with him.  Also handled McKenna, though obviously had a big size advantage there.  He's mentally tough as heck, keeps getting better and trains with JB every day. 

JB finally confirmed what we all knew about his weight - it's REALLY hard for him to get down to 74 and affects his performance.  I hope this win (no matter what happens with Dake) gets him back for another cycle or couple years up at 79.  Cutting weight sucks, cutting that much weight in your 30s even moreso.  Go up, have fun at a non-Olympic weight for a couple years and see where it takes you.

 

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They said JB weighed in at 178 right?

That’s “only” 15 lbs above 74kg, so if he claims he hasn’t “started cutting back down yet,” it appears he may not be cutting “a ton” of weight.  But I’m sure he basically has no body fat so it’s probably not easy

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9 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

They said JB weighed in at 178 right?

That’s “only” 15 lbs above 74kg, so if he claims he hasn’t “started cutting back down yet,” it appears he may not be cutting “a ton” of weight.  But I’m sure he basically has no body fat so it’s probably not easy

Mind, he was anything but a soft 178.

Nonetheless, I agree.  He's probably not J'Den Cox trying to make 86 kg with day of weigh-ins.

Edited by whaletail

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On 11/14/2020 at 9:03 PM, nhs67 said:

Berger is like Deakin Jr with the hollow bone stuff.  Sasso looked smaller than he is.  If he intends to try for 74kg then he needs to go 157.  If he intends to go for 65kg then he needs to go 149.  If he doesn't have Oly Aspirations then whatever weight he feel like going.  He'll contend at either weight this year.

149 will be a lot easier than 157 if Deakin and Carr remain at 157 not to mention Hidlay who would also be tough for Sasso.

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On 11/14/2020 at 9:29 PM, Class said:

Henderson is solid, nearly teched Eirman right?  But, some hype has to come off Echemendia 

I am not sure I would agree with that - AE is only an incoming freshman in college and is still very young.  Henderson has a lot of experience over him and it showed.  I am still very excited to see what AE can do going forward.

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On 11/14/2020 at 9:48 PM, Gantry said:

Nobody makes second period adjustments better than JB, like ever.

But unfortunately he's made some costly mistakes in the final 10-15 seconds of big time matches.

On 11/14/2020 at 10:09 PM, DocBZ said:

How can conditioning be addressed? It has ben his achilles heel for years and Zahis knows it...most likely it is somewhat genetic to Zahid. Google "Lung brick Zahid Zeke Bo Jordan"...

I'm sure there is still room for improvement on his conditioning, but you may be right about hitting a genetic limit. But he could also stand to refine his style quite a bit, which could conserve energy. He can overwhelm lesser opponents with volume, but against the best in the world, he needs to be able to pick his spots. He likes to take shots from distance and use his length to finish, but against great defensive wrestlers, you can't get caught underneath, especially when you are tired. JB would actually be a good guy to model his style off of. When JB was in his prime (and still now to some degree) he used lots of movement and fakes to set up his blast double. Zahid doesn't fake or set up anything, he just goes. It's an exhausting style and not one he will be able to win with against the best if his conditioning cannot be improved.

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4 hours ago, lu1979 said:

149 will be a lot easier than 157 if Deakin and Carr remain at 157 not to mention Hidlay who would also be tough for Sasso.

I do believe Sasso has owned the Carr matchups as they grew up, did he not?

The same can be said about Berge, which is why I think Flo was so high on him.

Hidlay really has no option but to stay at 157.  He'd put one of the Bullard twins out of the lineup if he wanted to go 165.  Deakin and Carr should be going 165 if they intend to try and make the team at 74 (163).  It showed when up against 74kg guys who were already used to the weight.  Massa is my boy, but it showed that he just waited out that match for a counter and used superior horse power to bring that 4 pointer.

I just don't see Sasso making 65kg, ever.  Means he needs to fill out to 74 or accept being a 70 guy for the rest of his life.  That means no Oly...

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3 hours ago, nhs67 said:

I do believe Sasso has owned the Carr matchups as they grew up, did he not?

The same can be said about Berge, which is why I think Flo was so high on him.

Hidlay really has no option but to stay at 157.  He'd put one of the Bullard twins out of the lineup if he wanted to go 165.  Deakin and Carr should be going 165 if they intend to try and make the team at 74 (163).  It showed when up against 74kg guys who were already used to the weight.  Massa is my boy, but it showed that he just waited out that match for a counter and used superior horse power to bring that 4 pointer.

I just don't see Sasso making 65kg, ever.  Means he needs to fill out to 74 or accept being a 70 guy for the rest of his life.  That means no Oly...

Well the rest of his life is a long time - He could easily spend one more year at 149 and fill out to 157 later.  He is still fairly young - he has plenty of time to put on size to move up to 74 kg eventually if that's where he wants to compete.  In the meantime compete at 70 kg which seems to be a comfortable weight for him and will give him a chance to improve his technique.  

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12 hours ago, lu1979 said:

I am not sure I would agree with that - AE is only an incoming freshman in college and is still very young.  Henderson has a lot of experience over him and it showed.  I am still very excited to see what AE can do going forward.

AE is 21. I don't know that Henderson has that much more experience than AE, given that AE is a six time national champion and a medalist at the senior level in Cuba.

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1 hour ago, Le duke said:

AE is 21. I don't know that Henderson has that much more experience than AE, given that AE is a six time national champion and a medalist at the senior level in Cuba.

I think people have determined that Echemendia is indeed a bit older than 21 based on his the timing of his six Cuban national championships.  It was very interesting to see how he did against an older more experienced opponent. He had a lot of fun beating younger less experienced opponents during his year of American high school.

His future success may also depend on his relationship with his 17 year old fiancee/insta model who was hovering over him during warmups and is all over his social media.  She does appear to have a really, really nice house though.

 

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18 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

I think people have determined that Echemendia is indeed a bit older than 21 based on his the timing of his six Cuban national championships.  It was very interesting to see how he did against an older more experienced opponent. He had a lot of fun beating younger less experienced opponents during his year of American high school.

His future success may also depend on his relationship with his 17 year old fiancee/insta model who was hovering over him during warmups and is all over his social media.  She does appear to have a really, really nice house though.

 

Yeah not on the AE train either.

I would combine this with my lack of belief in tOSU's ability to develop athletes. 

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2 minutes ago, hammerlockthree said:

Yeah not on the AE train either.

I would combine this with my lack of belief in tOSU's ability to develop athletes. 

I agree with much of what you say.  But why was Kyle Snyder better at freestyle when he was wrestling in college?

Edited by AHamilton

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1 minute ago, AHamilton said:

I agree with much of what you say.  But why was Kyle Snyder better at freestyle when he was wrestling in college?

Because as you improve your learning curve shallows, plus he was still at tOSU when he seemed to plateau.

Here is another good one, remember when our freestyle guys seemed to do better right out of college? Not quite the same since RTCs have taken hold, but they had the benefit of the college grind was the only sensical answer I have ever heard.

Anyway that's all guesses obviously.  

 

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