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The Stieber Ramos controversy explanation

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Two threads on www.ohiowrestling.net explore this topic:

 

1. http://ohiowrestling.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4479 (Fred Feeney is an NCAA referee himself.)

 

2. http://ohiowrestling.net/forum/viewtopi ... c&start=30 (James Kessen's response.)

 

Apparently the referee counted 1 1/2. The video review was not available, because Terry Brands was blocking the camera view.

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Wow! Terry Brands blocking the video?

 

That is horrible for Iowa to see that NF2 wasn't awarded because Terry actually blocked the video.

 

I would imagine the gut-wrenching feeling when Terry finds out that he was responsible for non-call on NF2.

 

I wouldn't be in Terry's shoe for that moment.

 

Feel bad for them.

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Logan still wins 7-6, as opposed to 7-4.

 

And there's no need for a lengthy explanation of how Ramos would have gone about things differently if the two points were awarded. That may be true, but Logan would have figured it out and won anyway, just like he did the other four times.

 

It's like McIlravy and Bono. Bono took him to OT, but Mac always figured out a way to win.

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Two threads on http://www.ohiowrestling.net explore this topic:

 

1. http://ohiowrestling.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4479 (Fred Feeney is an NCAA referee himself.)

 

2. http://ohiowrestling.net/forum/viewtopi ... c&start=30 (James Kessen's response.)

 

Apparently the referee counted 1 1/2. The video review was not available, because Terry Brands was blocking the camera view.

 

Would be nice to have an objective explanation, from someone who is NOT from Ohio?

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Logan still wins 7-6, as opposed to 7-4.

 

And there's no need for a lengthy explanation of how Ramos would have gone about things differently if the two points were awarded. That may be true, but Logan would have figured it out and won anyway, just like he did the other four times.

 

It's like McIlravy and Bono. Bono took him to OT, but Mac always figured out a way to win.

 

There you go. We'll just stop having Logan wrestle matches, just have him walk out and the refs raise his hand.

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Logan still wins 7-6, as opposed to 7-4.

 

And there's no need for a lengthy explanation of how Ramos would have gone about things differently if the two points were awarded. That may be true, but Logan would have figured it out and won anyway, just like he did the other four times.

 

It's like McIlravy and Bono. Bono took him to OT, but Mac always figured out a way to win.

 

There you go. We'll just stop having Logan wrestle matches, just have him walk out and the refs raise his hand.

 

That's fine, as long as Ramos is there to shake it.

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Terry is not in front of the camera. You can see him on the broadcast and you can see where the camera was. Terry wasn't even in the line of vision of the camera. Unless this is a camera that takes the weirdest angle of all time.

Can anyone provide the video or still picture that would show where Terry and the camera are?

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Terry is not in front of the camera. You can see him on the broadcast and you can see where the camera was. Terry wasn't even in the line of vision of the camera. Unless this is a camera that takes the weirdest angle of all time.

Can anyone provide the video or still picture that would show where Terry and the camera are?

 

http://espn.go.com/watchespn/player?id=833229

 

Go to the 1:46 mark and you can see Terry does go in front of the camera. Also the ref may have been in front of the camera.

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Terry is not in front of the camera. You can see him on the broadcast and you can see where the camera was. Terry wasn't even in the line of vision of the camera. Unless this is a camera that takes the weirdest angle of all time.

Can anyone provide the video or still picture that would show where Terry and the camera are?

 

http://espn.go.com/watchespn/player?id=833229

 

Go to the 1:46 mark and you can see Terry does go in front of the camera.

Thanks! I will take a look at it tonight. I'm quite curious about that.

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Not once during the coverage did the review show a replay in normal speed. Showing it in slowmotion does nothing when you are trying to judge if back points should be awarded. And slowmotion replays never indicate at what rate the action is slowed too. I would guess every machine would have a different rate...thereby distorting our view. Furthermore, slow motion is in fact a distortion of real-time events. Just like a record can be played back at different speeds, so too can action. And back points CAN NOT be started until control is given . Ramos' fans are awarding control before it could be reasonably given, because of bias....just as the Steiber fans are bias the other way. However, based on five times of wrestling prior, I predict Logan finds a way no matter what occurred during that flury, save for a fall.

 

In this circumstance, though, Logan forced a scramble, rather than give up a takedown ( I believe Logan can learn from that BIG-TIME)...he gambled and Ramos very nearly seized the opportunity, but Logan did in fact beat the back points, mostly because of the time lapse between a takedown and nearfall. Either way it wasn't remotely close to a fall,as Ramos couldn't hold it all, and it was far from 3 nearfall as others have suggested.

 

Either way, had 2 been awarded, I see Logan getting another takedown if he needed it. Ramos also had Logan in some very dangerous ties that Logan proved he could defend. He is just better. But I give tons of credit to Ramos for sure. I see Logan focused on getting better in order to win a world championship. I see Ramos only focusing on Steiber. This may help or hurt Ramos, but I admire his fight for sure.

 

I do not think that 2 should have been awarded, and even had they been, I'm quite confidant Logan would have won and collected another takedown. In fact Logans ability to avoid both the fall, and Nearfall, as well as his ability to avoid getting manned over earlier, speaks to an ability that should be given FAR more credit.

 

As far as the Oliver match...while that last disputed takedown is always mentioned....no one ever bring up the fact that Logan took Jordan down on a go behind where Oliver's hands did indeed briefly hit the mat, but 2 was not awarded....kinda sucks people only choose to see when Logan gets the lucky calls, but he gets some calls missed too.

 

As much as Iowa fans are complaining, and I understand; the refs did as good a job officiating as Tony or Logan did wrestling: they weren't perfect but the best we have around.

 

I predict that Logan will be better next year than this year as well; my reasoning is that the injury did effect Logans timing and technique on his feet. It did nothing to hurt his strength obviously. Anyway I believe that the better wrestler won and, really there is not much else to say.

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Two threads on http://www.ohiowrestling.net explore this topic:

 

1. http://ohiowrestling.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4479 (Fred Feeney is an NCAA referee himself.)

 

2. http://ohiowrestling.net/forum/viewtopi ... c&start=30 (James Kessen's response.)

 

Apparently the referee counted 1 1/2. The video review was not available, because Terry Brands was blocking the camera view.

 

How was Terry Brands in the way? Was this just an unfortunate accident, or was he standing in a place where he wasn't supposed to be?

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The official swipes once with each hand, that's two counts to me! Watch the video, I watched it several times to make certain there were 2 swipes.

 

You cannot say they match would have certainly ended 7-6 even with the nearfall.....the match may have been wrestled differently from the time of the N2 forward.

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Two threads on http://www.ohiowrestling.net explore this topic:

 

1. http://ohiowrestling.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4479 (Fred Feeney is an NCAA referee himself.)

 

2. http://ohiowrestling.net/forum/viewtopi ... c&start=30 (James Kessen's response.)

 

Apparently the referee counted 1 1/2. The video review was not available, because Terry Brands was blocking the camera view.

 

How was Terry Brands in the way? Was this just an unfortunate accident, or was he standing in a place where he wasn't supposed to be?

Brands was helping the ref with counting to two and thus was in front of the camera. Watch the link that was posted, it will help you.

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I still think Stiebe would've won but am I the only one who saw the official swipe with one hand, instantly shift to the same hand and then swiped with the other hand and put two fingers to the mat?

You swipe with the same hands folks. If you use a different hand, then you are indicating to everyone that a new count is starting. How many time do you see a ref do backs using a back and forth wave with both hands? Never saw the two fingers either.

 

There is no reason for Vegas to help decide bets here either. Why would a ref screw an Iowa wrestler over in Iowa? Brands was allowed to run over...and a point too could have been awarded to Logan for the extra coach. Tom Ryan didn't try to intervene either. The Brands' tried to show up the refs there IMO.

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The official swipes once with each hand, that's two counts to me! Watch the video, I watched it several times to make certain there were 2 swipes.

 

You cannot say they match would have certainly ended 7-6 even with the nearfall.....the match may have been wrestled differently from the time of the N2 forward.

True...Likely Logan would have avoided another stupid mistake and would have taken Tony down another couple of times. The first two takedowns were very nice. Unless you are counting on another huge Logan mistake: I don't see it. Plus no matter that call. It was at the half point in the match. And Tony couldn't make up any ground.

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Logan still wins 7-6, as opposed to 7-4.

 

And there's no need for a lengthy explanation of how Ramos would have gone about things differently if the two points were awarded. That may be true, but Logan would have figured it out and won anyway, just like he did the other four times.

 

It's like McIlravy and Bono. Bono took him to OT, but Mac always figured out a way to win.

 

There you go. We'll just stop having Logan wrestle matches, just have him walk out and the refs raise his hand.

 

That's fine, as long as Ramos is there to shake it.

 

+1

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Vak, I just watched the cradle sequence again and you can clearly see Brands legs and feet in front of the cameraman. As soon as Stieber was in trouble you can see Brands already over there. With that said, when I saw it live and on tape--it was two.

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Watching the replay above the only thing you can see is that Terry does go in the area. Doesn't show whether he was or was not blocking the camera. Really, Really close to a two count imo. This is why it's controversial, it's really hard to tell when the ref was starting his count. If he starts immediately, there's no question it was a two count. If there is hesitation at all.... it's a close call. Ramos should have just stuck him and ended it all ;)

 

If these guys meet again, which I don't think will happen, Steiber will not wrestle so open. He will tighten up and it will be a boring low scoring decision.

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I'm not a forensic guy, or a detective.... but your photo above still shows the camera in view. Vaks photo shows the camera directly above the cord and cup... the cord and the cup are at least in that photo still in view. If you draw a straight line from the hips of the ref to the cup, then they seem to still be in view.

 

Maybe later he goes further?

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