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IronChef

Grounded vs Step Out

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Here are two situations from Saturday night. To me, they are strikingly similar, but the first was ruled grounded, while the second is a step out. Either the officials made a mistake, or I don't understand the rule as well as I thought. Can anyone explain why these two situations were scored differently?

#1 - No points

https://gfycat.com/shinyoldafricanrockpython

#2 - 1 point confirmed

https://gfycat.com/dangeroussleepykite

Edited by IronChef

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2 minutes ago, IronChef said:

Here are two situations from Saturday night. To me, they are strikingly similar, but the first was ruled grounded, while the second is a step out. Either the officials made a mistake, or I don't understand the rule as well as I thought. Can anyone explain why these two situations were scored differently.

#1 - No points

https://gfycat.com/shinyoldafricanrockpython

#2 - 1 point confirmed

https://gfycat.com/dangeroussleepykite

 

I would be interested in an explanation too, as I did not see any substantive difference between the two at the time, and I see even less difference with the passage of time.

I remember thinking at the time that it was a miss on the first call and the second call was an acknowledgement that the first call was missed. But as my screen name implies, what do I know?

Edited by Wrestleknownothing

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it is poor officiating...

they allowed both JB and Valencia to wrestle off their knees (passive) entirely too much which resulted in those scenarios... 

they allowed it and then called the resulting action inconsistently...

they damn sure didn't know what a leg foul in greco is...

 

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38 minutes ago, gimpeltf said:

Not suggesting this as a definitive answer but the second one involved Valencia going pretty straight back and the first was circling.

attempting to circle or not has no bearing on a step out...

going straight back can be viewed as fleeing the hold and that becomes a caution and 1 and the action is restarted in whatever position the fleeing occurred...

but, that was not the call...

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1 hour ago, LJB said:

attempting to circle or not has no bearing on a step out...

going straight back can be viewed as fleeing the hold and that becomes a caution and 1 and the action is restarted in whatever position the fleeing occurred...

but, that was not the call...

What should the calls for each of those 2 clips have been?

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7 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

What should the calls for each of those 2 clips have been?

No points, but, it is the refs fault for allowing them to wrestle on their knees...

both should have been warned for that early and if they continued to drop down, they should have been hit for passivity...

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Thanks for the original post on this.  I’d love to have more like it.
 

This type of video review, done by those in some position of authority, should be done more often.  This way they can be more clear - across the community - on what the rules are and how to interpret them.  

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In the first one ZV’s initial attack started grounded, JB’s reattack came from ground, the scrambled a little bit on the mat and went out. 
 

In the second one JB’s initial attack started from the feet and it was the continuation of the initial attack through a straight line to out of bounds. 
 

It’s a thin line but that’s the difference of the two. 

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1 hour ago, Lurker said:

In the first one ZV’s initial attack started grounded, JB’s reattack came from ground, the scrambled a little bit on the mat and went out. 
 

In the second one JB’s initial attack started from the feet and it was the continuation of the initial attack through a straight line to out of bounds. 
 

It’s a thin line but that’s the difference of the two. 

it is still on a "grounded" opponent...

it is no different than when we see hand fighting to the protection zone and then one wrestler dropping down while clinched to avoid giving up a step out...

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36 minutes ago, LJB said:

it is still on a "grounded" opponent...

it is no different than when we see hand fighting to the protection zone and then one wrestler dropping down while clinched to avoid giving up a step out...

Not saying I think it was right or wrong call. Just saying why I thought they called it the way they did, the difference in the two scenarios. Seeing a 1 on that second scenario is not all that uncommon, when the initial attack goes in a straight line like that. That’s why you often see officials wave their hand at the ground in a circular motion when not giving the one. 

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38 minutes ago, LJB said:

it is still on a "grounded" opponent...

it is no different than when we see hand fighting to the protection zone and then one wrestler dropping down while clinched to avoid giving up a step out...

It is a difference in what you described in that they weren’t hand fighting to the zone. It was a direct attack into and through the zone.  Again not saying the call(s) were right or wrong, just that the situations were different, as is the situation you described. 

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1 minute ago, Lurker said:

It is a difference in what you described in that they weren’t hand fighting to the zone. It was a direct attack into and through the zone.  Again not saying the call(s) were right or wrong, just that the situations were different, as is the situation you described. 

yes, the situations were different in the way you describe...

yes, that might have been why the below average ref called it like he did...

it still does not make it right, which, is the real issue at play...

a caution and 1 is the only legitimate way to award points in the second situation...

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4 hours ago, LJB said:

a caution and 1 is the only legitimate way to award points in the second situation...

Definitely agree in that I think it’s the better way to call that action, but then again like I’ve said I’ve seen that call on that action a bit, by some pretty good refs. Guessing it’s a lesser of two evils type of thing. Honestly to me the two calls on the two actions...nothing really notable. Can see people asking why one and not the other. Can definitely see your point on the C-1 on the second sequence. Just as much, can see why they went the way they did. No biggie. And certainly wasn’t a factor in the match. 

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1 hour ago, Lurker said:

Then I guess they didn’t bother you that much.

or...

it just never happened...

or...

I just have come to accept how bad the reffing is in this country overall...

and how poor the overall knowledge is on the rule set...

either way...

when I saw the refs for the FLO event I didn’t have much faith in an evening without “controversy”...

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On 11/18/2020 at 8:08 PM, LJB said:

No points, but, it is the refs fault for allowing them to wrestle on their knees...

both should have been warned for that early and if they continued to drop down, they should have been hit for passivity...

Personally, I think JB was forced to stay that low, because Valencia was....I don't think JB really wanted to be down there.....It was addressed a little in his interview after the match.

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Refs evaluate how they got to the mat.

Was it an attack that got the wrestler(s) to the mat (a sprawl perhaps or a snap down) then the same attack continued / followed through and drove the wrestler out?  That is more likely to be a 1 point for step out.

Was it an attack that got the wrestler(s) to the mat, there was a lot of scrambling and circle action, then someone went out?  That is more likely to be called grounded and no points.

 

Edited by neutralpositionref

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