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Bajrang training at CLWC

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11 minutes ago, hammerlockthree said:

I'm not a fan of exporting his wrestlers to other countries, if he gets bajrang to emigrate from india I guess that cancels out.

has bajrang ever wrestled retherford?

Yes I believe they wrestled once before with Bajrang winning a tight one. 
 

Bormet isn’t exporting out his athletes. It’s not like he’s shopping them out to the highest bidder.  A few of his athletes have opportunities, and Bormet as their coach is fully supporting them in pursuing those opportunities. As any athlete would want their coach to do, and any coach should want to do for their athlete. Hard to knock him for that. Addition to that, none of these guys are/would be even on the US ladder, let alone a world team. So they are gaining training and competitive experiences they otherwise wouldn’t be getting, which pays out in the American rooms they’re training in....i.e. CKWC....thereby benefiting American wrestling. What’s not to like? 
EDIT: Sorry, just saw you answered your own question. 

Edited by Lurker

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1 minute ago, Lurker said:

Yes I believe they wrestled once before with Bajrang winning a tight one. 
 

Bormet isn’t exporting out his athletes. It’s not like he’s shopping them out to the highest bidder.  A few of his athletes have opportunities, and Bormet as their coach is fully supporting them in pursuing those opportunities. As any athlete would want their coach to do, and any coach should want to do for their athlete. Hard to knock him for that. Addition to that, none of these guys are/would be even on the US ladder, let alone a world team. So they are gaining training and competitive experiences they otherwise wouldn’t be getting, which pays out in the American rooms they’re training in....i.e. CKWC....thereby benefiting American wrestling. What’s not to like? 

You make great points, and I maybe I am too puritanical, but there is something sneaky and gross about it to me. 

Also, and please remember my history of hyper cynical posts, but I really do believe in the US and think there is an element of ingratitude to casually running off to wrestle for another country at the Olympics.   

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12 hours ago, hammerlockthree said:

You make great points, and I maybe I am too puritanical, but there is something sneaky and gross about it to me. 

Also, and please remember my history of hyper cynical posts, but I really do believe in the US and think there is an element of ingratitude to casually running off to wrestle for another country at the Olympics.   

You do know that athletes from a lot of different sports train and live in different countries(that they weren't born in or represent), right?

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13 hours ago, Lurker said:

Yes I believe they wrestled once before with Bajrang winning a tight one. 
 

Bormet isn’t exporting out his athletes. It’s not like he’s shopping them out to the highest bidder.  A few of his athletes have opportunities, and Bormet as their coach is fully supporting them in pursuing those opportunities. As any athlete would want their coach to do, and any coach should want to do for their athlete. Hard to knock him for that. Addition to that, none of these guys are/would be even on the US ladder, let alone a world team. So they are gaining training and competitive experiences they otherwise wouldn’t be getting, which pays out in the American rooms they’re training in....i.e. CKWC....thereby benefiting American wrestling. What’s not to like? 
EDIT: Sorry, just saw you answered your own question. 

I fully agree with you on supporting what Coach Bormet is doing for his athletes.  I do have to disagree with your statement that "none of these guys are/would be even on the US ladder, let alone a world team."  I know that none of them would be odds on favorites in the the US but S Micic would definitely be in contention to make the US  team.  Also Myles Amine would have to be considered someone who "would be on the ladder" after the performance he had in 2019.  Had he been competing for that team in the field that PD3 won there is a good chance that he would have repped the US in 2019.  Still I fully support those guys following the path they choose and wish them great success (unless they hit a US guy in competition - then I'm pulling for our guy).  

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53 minutes ago, lu1979 said:

I fully agree with you on supporting what Coach Bormet is doing for his athletes.  I do have to disagree with your statement that "none of these guys are/would be even on the US ladder, let alone a world team."  I know that none of them would be odds on favorites in the the US but S Micic would definitely be in contention to make the US  team.  Also Myles Amine would have to be considered someone who "would be on the ladder" after the performance he had in 2019.  Had he been competing for that team in the field that PD3 won there is a good chance that he would have repped the US in 2019.  Still I fully support those guys following the path they choose and wish them great success (unless they hit a US guy in competition - then I'm pulling for our guy).  

Hard to disagree with what you are saying, particularly Amine you make a real good point in regards to '19 and the way things played out.  But...... Do you think heading into this trials, with Taylor, Ringer, Zahid, Nickal, Martin, and others at 86, he makes that top 3?   Micic is probably p4p the best of that bunch, but I think his chances of being on that ladder are pretty slim here in the US.  I mean, when you get to (presumably) the number 4 spot past Fix, Gilman, and Lee....there's still a lot of studs there he'd have to beat just for that 4 spot.

 

All that said, you described it better than me.  Saying none of these guys would be on the ladder is pretty absolute, saying they wouldn't be the favorites for the top three definitely better.

Edited by Lurker

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52 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Hard to disagree with what you are saying, particularly Amine you make a real good point in regards to '19 and the way things played out.  But...... Do you think heading into this trials, with Taylor, Ringer, Zahid, Nickal, Martin, and others at 86, he makes that top 3?   Micic is probably p4p the best of that bunch, but I think his chances of being on that ladder are pretty slim here in the US.  I mean, when you get to (presumably) the number 4 spot past Fix, Gilman, and Lee....there's still a lot of studs there he'd have to beat just for that 4 spot.

 

All that said, you described it better than me.  Saying none of these guys would be on the ladder is pretty absolute, saying they wouldn't be the favorites for the top three definitely better.

I understand that all of our weights are deep in the US.  In Myles Amines case the only one I would be shocked to see him beat would be DT.  The other top guys (Zahid, Ringer, Bo, MyMar, and maybe include Dean) let's just say I would not be more surprised to see him win against any of those guys than I was to see him beat Shabanau of Belarus or Torreblanca of Cuba.  Those are probably his best wins.  Would I pick MA to beat one of those guys?  I don't know - I just wouldn't count him out.  I guess I would consider him another strong prospect who could break through and be the USA's rep at some time in the future.  As far as Micic goes I guess we disagree a bit on him.  I view him as very much in the mix with out top 3 guys (Lee, Fix & Gilman) who I think are a little ahead of the rest of a great and deep field.   But it makes no difference as both those guys have made their choice and will be competing for San Marino and Serbia going forward.  Sometimes idle speculation about what might have been can be fun.  I hope they both have great success and I think it is awesome that they both managed to qualify Olympic spots for their teams. 

Edited by lu1979

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4 hours ago, hammerlockthree said:

yeah....whats your point.

You said there's something sneaky and gross about it(foreigners coming here to train then go compete for a different country).

But how about when Valentin Kalika took Helen Maroulis, Elena Pirozhkova(both 2016 Olympians), Aaron Pico, Jake Herbert and Victoria Anthony to Russia to train many times for up to a month to prepare for the Olympics where Helen won the gold medal?  Over a few years, they trained with Saitiev, Gatsolov, Ramonov, Sadulaev, Gadisov, Gazimagomedov,  and a ton of the other top Russians.

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4 hours ago, CA_Wrestler said:

You said there's something sneaky and gross about it(foreigners coming here to train then go compete for a different country).

But how about when Valentin Kalika took Helen Maroulis, Elena Pirozhkova(both 2016 Olympians), Aaron Pico, Jake Herbert and Victoria Anthony to Russia to train many times for up to a month to prepare for the Olympics where Helen won the gold medal?  Over a few years, they trained with Saitiev, Gatsolov, Ramonov, Sadulaev, Gadisov, Gazimagomedov,  and a ton of the other top Russians.

Yeah then they compete for America. I don't have a problem with that.

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5 hours ago, CA_Wrestler said:

You said there's something sneaky and gross about it(foreigners coming here to train then go compete for a different country).

But how about when Valentin Kalika took Helen Maroulis, Elena Pirozhkova(both 2016 Olympians), Aaron Pico, Jake Herbert and Victoria Anthony to Russia to train many times for up to a month to prepare for the Olympics where Helen won the gold medal?  Over a few years, they trained with Saitiev, Gatsolov, Ramonov, Sadulaev, Gadisov, Gazimagomedov,  and a ton of the other top Russians.

The problem is that they are using distant ties to a country simply to game the Olympic qualification system. This is not the same thing as somebody who was born in another country, moved to the US, but chooses to represent their home country.  Just look at the recent situation with the forfeit to the Israeli wrestler..Maybe it’s worth looking into the policies of the country these athletes are representing and not just view them as avenues to Olympic/world qualification. This criticism also applies to athletes who train/live/were born in Russia but represent other countries in the region because they can’t make the Russian team.

Edited by Billyhoyle

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10 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

The problem is that they are using distant ties to a country simply to game the Olympic qualification system. This is not the same thing as somebody who was born in another country, moved to the US, but chooses to represent their home country.  Just look at the recent situation with the forfeit to the Israeli wrestler..Maybe it’s worth looking into the policies of the country these athletes are representing and not just view them as avenues to Olympic/world qualification. This criticism also applies to athletes who train/live/were born in Russia but represent other countries in the region because they can’t make the Russian team.

I was a very average college wrestler.  However, I could have easily been Team Ireland and wrestled in the Olympics.  I meet the qualifications for Irish citizenship and qualifying for the Olympics was much, much easier lol.  Something about it all just didn't seem right. After barely giving it a thought, I chose not to pursue it.

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33 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

I was a very average college wrestler.  However, I could have easily been Team Ireland and wrestled in the Olympics.  I meet the qualifications for Irish citizenship and qualifying for the Olympics was much, much easier lol.  Something about it all just didn't seem right. After barely giving it a thought, I chose not to pursue it.

Such a small % of human beings ever get to be an olympian.  I understand your hesitation and definitely don't knock you for it, but man I would give anything to walk in the grandest of all grand marches and step on that mat.  I don't think I would make the same choice.  

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1 hour ago, AHamilton said:

I was a very average college wrestler.  However, I could have easily been Team Ireland and wrestled in the Olympics.  I meet the qualifications for Irish citizenship and qualifying for the Olympics was much, much easier lol.  Something about it all just didn't seem right. After barely giving it a thought, I chose not to pursue it.

Would Ireland qualify for the Olympics?

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1 hour ago, AHamilton said:

Why wouldn't they?  It is an independent republic. 

Competitors have to qualify for the Olympics. In wrestling, the country has to qualify each weight- not necessarily the individual. Although, I would have thought you would know that.

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2 minutes ago, gimpeltf said:

Competitors have to qualify for the Olympics. In wrestling, the country has to qualify each weight- not necessarily the individual. Although, I would have thought you would know that.

Not back in my day.  I thought you would have known that.

Ever hear of Eddie the Eagle or the Jamaican Bobsled team?

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2 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

Not back in my day.  I thought you would have known that.

Ever hear of Eddie the Eagle or the Jamaican Bobsled team?

Maybe just wrestling and a few other sports. I believe Track does. Those are both winter Olympics which could be different.

And I meant more that you would know wrestling qualifies weights.

Edited by gimpeltf

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6 minutes ago, gimpeltf said:

Maybe just wrestling and a few other sports. I believe Track does. Those are both winter Olympics which could be different.

And I meant more that you would know wrestling qualifies weights.

1992 was the first Olympics in which a nation had to qualify to compete.  1988 was the year of Eddie the Eagle and the first Jamaican bobsled team.  That was the last time the IOC let people risk life and limb in sports they had barely any skill.  Although there are some competitive mismatches now...

This also goes hand in hand with the IOC trying to reduce the overall numbers of competitors that they have to house and all the other logistical issues that come with the Olympic games.

Edited by AHamilton

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2 hours ago, gimpeltf said:

Maybe just wrestling and a few other sports. I believe Track does. Those are both winter Olympics which could be different.

And I meant more that you would know wrestling qualifies weights.

Many-- I would guess most-- sports require qualification. You could not have 200 competitors in weightlifting or diving or gymnastics. And the entire Olympics is limited to 10,500 athletes. I don't know how Eddy the Eagle got in.

 

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