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College Season ??

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6 minutes ago, NJDan said:

Why did they eliminate the D2 and D3 guys? I'd rather see them than the 9th place guy from the Big 10.

I could (probably) be wrong but I think the majority of the time, the 9th place Big 10 guy would beat them?

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5 minutes ago, NJDan said:

Why did they eliminate the D2 and D3 guys? I'd rather see them than the 9th place guy from the Big 10.

It probably depends who you ask. Some say there was pressure from the D1 coaches to get rid of them so as not to lose to them.

What I got directly from the NCAA rep was that there weren't other sports that gave two bites to the apple.

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4 hours ago, ionel said:

this would be a good time to get ride of the silly 33rd position in the bracket, it makes absolutely  no sense and just messes up the first day.  

never ever give them an excuse to limit opportunities for wrestlers 

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3 hours ago, ionel said:

The only reason the extra (33rd) was added was to be consistent with basketball.  That made absolutely no sense.  The extra draw-in basketball game is on (I think) Tues, thus the single game generates more market share, tv revenue etc.  Basketball doesn't play the back side of the bracket so this has no affect on the full bracket on Thusday going forward.  Wrestling used to be 8 then 16, 24 and there was nothing wrong with 32.

BTW who said anything about "ruin the first day?" 

um you did

'messes up first day'

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On 12/17/2020 at 2:23 PM, GockeS said:

never ever give them an excuse to limit opportunities for wrestlers 

I agree.  But I also am not a fan of one pigtail match.

A concept I thought might be good is to go to 11 weight classes and keep 330 qualifiers so every weight gets 30 guys (top two seeds get byes).  Then we have an odd number of weight classes which would allow for an easy tie breaker in duals.

Note: This isn't one of the concepts I have given much thought to so I might actually find fault with it but it was a thought I had...

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On 12/17/2020 at 10:45 AM, Wrestleknownothing said:

Fear of Carlton Haselrig.

Dan and Adam Cuestas, Joe Gonzalez, John Azevedo and Jesse Reyes won NCAA Division 1 Titles at then Division 2 Cal State Bakersfield, Dan Cuestas won 2 times all these were in the early 1980's

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About the 4-match minimum -- this isn't in writing yet, but what I've heard is that the four bouts must be against Div I opponents, but they do not have to be at tournament weight.  Bouts at the conference tournament count towards the 4-match minimum.

Here's the weird thing -- only the conference champion is an automatic qualifier to NCAAs, meaning that if the champ has fewer than four bouts he still qualifies.  If a wrestler finishes at any of the other pre-allocated spots for a conference and doesn't have the four bouts, he doesn't qualify for NCAAs.

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On 12/17/2020 at 1:00 PM, teach said:

I could (probably) be wrong but I think the majority of the time, the 9th place Big 10 guy would beat them?

Maybe. I don't know. But the 9th place guy at the Big 10 isn't gonna win or place so why not leave him out in favor of a guy who might surprise the field. And as others have said, D2 has produced a few D1 champs.

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1 minute ago, NJDan said:

Maybe. I don't know. But the 9th place guy at the Big 10 isn't gonna win or place so why not leave him out in favor of a guy who might surprise the field. And as others have said, D2 has produced a few D1 champs.

Also, it looks like there are 50-plus D2 guys on NFL rosters. Just shows you that not all the best guys are in D1. https://wwwcache.ncaa.com/news/football/article/2020-09-10/every-dii-and-diii-player-2020-nfl-roster

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6 hours ago, jdalu75 said:

About the 4-match minimum -- this isn't in writing yet, but what I've heard is that the four bouts must be against Div I opponents, but they do not have to be at tournament weight.  Bouts at the conference tournament count towards the 4-match minimum.

 

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/championships/sports/wrestling/d1/men/2020-21D1MWR_QualifierAllocationCriteria.pdf disagrees with you.

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13 hours ago, NJDan said:

Maybe. I don't know. But the 9th place guy at the Big 10 isn't gonna win or place so why not leave him out in favor of a guy who might surprise the field. And as others have said, D2 has produced a few D1 champs.

You may want to check your history on that...

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On 12/17/2020 at 9:53 AM, NJDan said:

Why did they eliminate the D2 and D3 guys? I'd rather see them than the 9th place guy from the Big 10.

I don't disagree, but If those D2/3 guys didn't (or couldn't) pass the clearinghouse for DI, they shouldn't get a shot at the DI tournament (probably more likely to apply to D2 guys than D3).

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2 hours ago, Lurker said:

You may want to check your history on that...

On what?  Has anyone that finished 9th in B10’s ever won NCAA’s?

I’d agree that the 9th place guy from the B10 is usually better than the D2/D3 champ (they’re often better than some champs from other D1 conferences for that matter), but it’s probably more likely that a D2/D3 Champ could win the whole thing.

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39 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

On what?  Has anyone that finished 9th in B10’s ever won NCAA’s?

I’d agree that the 9th place guy from the B10 is usually better than the D2/D3 champ (they’re often better than some champs from other D1 conferences for that matter), but it’s probably more likely that a D2/D3 Champ could win the whole thing.

Check what I quoted. He said win or place. 

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im wondering if academic standing... standards have anything to do with leaving the D2/D3 guys out. DI coaches may have not thought it fair to include them... 

seems like a reach... but just a thought 

it has been pointed out the number of NFL players from dII. sometimes these guys go D2 b/c they can't cut the academic side...

is there anything to this?

 

I just noticed that pSUMC beat me to this.. 

Edited by GockeS

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On 12/20/2020 at 6:24 PM, NJDan said:

I was mainly guessing. But when was the last time a 9th place guy in the B10 won or placed?

It is only recently that any BIG wrestler that didn't place top 8 was granted a spot in the NCAAs. But for 8th place finishers just off the top of my hat Frank Molinaro finished 8th at BIGs and then 8th at NCAAs in 2009 and Mark McKnight finished 8th at BIGs and then 4th at NCAAs in 2008. I'm sure there are other BIG wrestlers that finished 7th or 8th at BIGs and then placed at NCAAs. 

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Eric Seibert of Illinois in 1998 finished 8th, in B1G then won NCAA. Of course he went into B1G ranked #1 in the nation. forfeited all 3 bouts. But the coaches agreed they would keep re-drawing the "random" bracket until the one variation came up that guaranteed the #1 seed minimum 8th, so he could wildcard in

 

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1 hour ago, RichB said:

Eric Seibert of Illinois in 1998 finished 8th, in B1G then won NCAA. Of course he went into B1G ranked #1 in the nation. forfeited all 3 bouts. But the coaches agreed they would keep re-drawing the "random" bracket until the one variation came up that guaranteed the #1 seed minimum 8th, so he could wildcard in

 

You've tried to sell your fable on here before and its been debunked and corrected.  Seibert was an undefeated senior ranked #1 in the country and because so seeded #1 at B10s.  He tore cartilage in his ribs in the qrt (or semi) final match and injury/med forfieted down to 6th.  He did not step on the mat again till NCAA tournament and wrestled very conservative till the finals clearly still injured.  

BTW: Schmidt from OSU another undefeated senior, tore his ACL in practice before NCAA. Perhaps due to his style and/or wrestled too aggressive did not fare as well. 

Screenshot_20201229-093031_Drive.jpg

Edited by ionel

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