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Steveson retiring after this year?

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No he didn’t overlook Parris.  He ducked him.
Not everybody beats Gwiz now, but Parris did, so Gable beating him doesn’t really prove that he’s top dog now

Parris can seek out Steveson now if he wants. I’m guessing both are happy to have their crack at Gwiz come out in their favor. Kinda lessens the wins if you ask me.

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8 hours ago, NJDan said:

Set for life? Really? How much has he made in MMA over, say, the last two years? And out of what he makes, how much goes to his trainer and his promoter and whatever else?

This is an honest question. I have no idea?

Of his 2 million in just fight earnings he has made most of that in the last 2 years - He has taken home nearly 1.5 million in the last 2 years from the last 4 fights. This does not include endorsements/sponsors etc. or other money related to MMA. He still has a lot of earning potential within the sport moving forward without fighting. 

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2 hours ago, hammerlockthree said:

You have to admit there is a character flaw implicit in skipping the Parris match. 

Its either lack of toughness, cowardice, or arrogance.

Or lack of watching the interview and why Eggum had him wrestle Wood. But I guess your speculation trumps his reality. 

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13 hours ago, Alwayswrestling said:

I do not get the great hype anymore of Steveson?  I got it before his college career with his HS and Jr world success but now at what 21-22 years of age no NCAA title or no Sr world team member let a lone not a Sr medal's.  Yet people talk about him possible being a GOAT at HWT?  I agree he has talent but I would also say there are 2-3 USA HWT's that could beat him and I would not be shocked. JMO 

As of right now GS is only 20 years old - The no NCAA title is due to him taking a close loss to a guy when he was only 18 and having something totally outside his control torpedo his chance to win a title at 19 years old.  He just beat a great USA heavyweight who is a 2X world medalist and who has been the best US heavyweight for the last four years.  I get the hype.

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13 hours ago, hammerlockthree said:

Everyone implying you can't criticize Steveson's decision because it's his to make is in essence saying they have the right to decide what other people can criticize.....pretty stupid argument. 

Anyone who thinks Steveson is abandoning wrestling and his education for reasons pertaining more to his ego than prudent judgement is totally entitled to criticize him. 

And yes he ducked Parris.  

He did not duck Parris - The Gopher team showed up to the tournament with two legit heavyweights - the coaches deciding to put 2X NCAA champ/seasoned FS competitor Nelson out against Parris does not constitute a duck on Gable's part.

Edited by lu1979

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On 12/8/2020 at 1:43 PM, 1032004 said:

I watched that but from what I remember he didn't really give any other reasoning.

The most interesting thing from that interview was his explanation for ducking Parris was that he was on a lifting only cycle and hadn't wrestled in awhile

As in dont wanna take a piss test....

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3 hours ago, lu1979 said:

As of right now GS is only 20 years old - The no NCAA title is due to him taking a close loss to a guy when he was only 18 and having something totally outside his control torpedo his chance to win a title at 19 years old.  He just beat a great USA heavyweight who is a 2X world medalist and who has been the best US heavyweight for the last four years.  I get the hype.

Agreed.  Mason Parris' results sets up an intriguing storyline for NCAA and/or OTT as an added bonus.

Edited by Plasmodium

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20 hours ago, NJDan said:

Set for life? Really? How much has he made in MMA over, say, the last two years? And out of what he makes, how much goes to his trainer and his promoter and whatever else?

This is an honest question. I have no idea?

Set for life doesn't necessarily mean he has enough money in the bank right now that he doesn't have to earn another dime the rest of his life and will be okay.  Earning potential How much he can draw for a one hour motivational speech, or a one hour clinic, or an appearance at an event, etc etc, also factors into "set for life".  And in that regard, he is certainly set for life.  To your point, as long as he's not a complete idiot about it.  The best wrestlers in the world however, unlike many times the best NBA or NFL players in the world, are typically extremely structured and disciplined.  so I wouldn't lump him in with those.

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21 hours ago, Alwayswrestling said:

I do not get the great hype anymore of Steveson?  I got it before his college career with his HS and Jr world success but now at what 21-22 years of age no NCAA title or no Sr world team member let a lone not a Sr medal's.  Yet people talk about him possible being a GOAT at HWT?  I agree he has talent but I would also say there are 2-3 USA HWT's that could beat him and I would not be shocked. JMO 

Even by your own underplaying of his achievements, he's on pace to be the GOAT heavyweight. He's 20 years old. He would have walked to a title last year, but it got cancelled. Now he's soundly beaten the 2x world medalist incumbent heavyweight and is the favorite to make the Olympic team. None of the great USA heavies were that successful early on. That's why people talk about him having the potential to be the GOAT.

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1 hour ago, uncle bernard said:

Even by your own underplaying of his achievements, he's on pace to be the GOAT heavyweight. He's 20 years old. He would have walked to a title last year, but it got cancelled. Now he's soundly beaten the 2x world medalist incumbent heavyweight and is the favorite to make the Olympic team. None of the great USA heavies were that successful early on. That's why people talk about him having the potential to be the GOAT.

Agree.  He has the potential to be that good. 

But as of today he has zero NCAA finals or appearances at worlds on the senior level.  He just beat Gwiz an hour after Gwiz's tough match with Parris.  During the same weekend, Parris, who has been a full time wrestler for all of two years, also beat Gwiz, but didn't get to wrestle Steveson, who instead of wrestling Parris, tweeted a challenge to Cassar -- a one time All American with no appearances on the world team and against whom Steveson is 0-2 in front of giant crowds.

Thus some people, on a wrestling board, as wrestling fans, see a disconnect with someone with that potential and those accomplishments who announces his retirement at 20. 

From a wrestling perspective, this is nothing like Cejudo, who went all in -- total commitment, complete with a mind meld with Terry Brands -- on a different wrestling path and achieved the ultimate in the sport, then when he lost his motivation and couldn't reach that same commitment level, pivoted and channeled his extraordinary ambition and skills to MMA. 

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3 hours ago, drag it said:

Agree.  He has the potential to be that good. 

But as of today he has zero NCAA finals or appearances at worlds on the senior level.  He just beat Gwiz an hour after Gwiz's tough match with Parris.  During the same weekend, Parris, who has been a full time wrestler for all of two years, also beat Gwiz, but didn't get to wrestle Steveson, who instead of wrestling Parris, tweeted a challenge to Cassar -- a one time All American with no appearances on the world team and against whom Steveson is 0-2 in front of giant crowds.

Thus some people, on a wrestling board, as wrestling fans, see a disconnect with someone with that potential and those accomplishments who announces his retirement at 20. 

From a wrestling perspective, this is nothing like Cejudo, who went all in -- total commitment, complete with a mind meld with Terry Brands -- on a different wrestling path and achieved the ultimate in the sport, then when he lost his motivation and couldn't reach that same commitment level, pivoted and channeled his extraordinary ambition and skills to MMA. 

I think continuing to say he “doesn’t have an NCAA finals appearance” is a bit disingenuous.  Very high probability he would have made it last season, and he dominated 1 of the 2019 finalists in his first ever college dual.  And while I do think he ducked Parris here, he may have gotten the #1 seed in 2019 if he ducked Cassar at B10’s, but he didn’t.

Edited by 1032004

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5 hours ago, uncle bernard said:

Even by your own underplaying of his achievements, he's on pace to be the GOAT heavyweight. He's 20 years old. He would have walked to a title last year, but it got cancelled. Now he's soundly beaten the 2x world medalist incumbent heavyweight and is the favorite to make the Olympic team. None of the great USA heavies were that successful early on. That's why people talk about him having the potential to be the GOAT.

Pace to be Hwt. GOAT? Based on what? Junior accomplishments?

Way pre mature for that claim considering he's won zero NCAA's and zero Senior spots, let alone Senior medals. 

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 “You get up two and a half million dollars, any jerk in the world knows what to do: you get a house with a 25 year roof, an indestructible economy crapbox, you put the rest into the system at three to five percent to pay your taxes and that's your base, get me? That's your fortress of solitude. That puts you, for the rest of your life, at a level of f you. Somebody wants you to do something, f you. Boss ticks you off, f you! Own your house. Have a couple bucks in the bank. Don't drink. That's all I have to say to anybody on any social level.” - John Goodman, as Frank, in “The Gambler”

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15 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I think continuing to say he “doesn’t have an NCAA finals appearance” is a bit disingenuous.  Very high probability he would have made it last season, and he dominated 1 of the 2019 finalists in his first ever college dual.  And while I do think he ducked Parris here, he may have gotten the #1 seed in 2019 if he ducked Cassar at B10’s, but he didn’t.

He has a third place NCAA finish and one Final X appearance.  There are dozens of guys still active with better credentials than that who could send a retirement tweet if they wanted.

Giving him credit for things that didn't happen doesn't change that.  Also I'm confused about the Cassar reference; are you saying he could/should have defaulted out of a Big Ten final when he had no injury (has anyone ever done that?)?

And wrestling Cassar at Big Tens should have actually been a help to him, if he'd only learned an obvious lesson from blowing a lead and losing due to a mental let-up.  Nope, he did it even worse at NCAAs -- I've never seen such a lack of urgency as during the full minute when Cassar rode him for the extra point after yet another third period takedown.      

 

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Just look at Pico. I’m 2016 he almost made the Olympic team. He never wrestled in college and as the years go by he’s an afterthought. Compare to Cejudo. There’s no comparison. So Go WWE at 20 or 25 what difference does it make? Only difference is that at 20 he can never wrestle again. He should stick around and win some titles; make a world team or two and then make some money. Leaving now is a huge mistake. 

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9 minutes ago, BigTimeFan said:

Just look at Pico. I’m 2016 he almost made the Olympic team. He never wrestled in college and as the years go by he’s an afterthought. Compare to Cejudo. There’s no comparison. So Go WWE at 20 or 25 what difference does it make? Only difference is that at 20 he can never wrestle again. He should stick around and win some titles; make a world team or two and then make some money. Leaving now is a huge mistake. 

Its pure ego.

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1 hour ago, drag it said:

He has a third place NCAA finish and one Final X appearance.  There are dozens of guys still active with better credentials than that who could send a retirement tweet if they wanted.

Giving him credit for things that didn't happen doesn't change that.  Also I'm confused about the Cassar reference; are you saying he could/should have defaulted out of a Big Ten final when he had no injury (has anyone ever done that?)?

And wrestling Cassar at Big Tens should have actually been a help to him, if he'd only learned an obvious lesson from blowing a lead and losing due to a mental let-up.  Nope, he did it even worse at NCAAs -- I've never seen such a lack of urgency as during the full minute when Cassar rode him for the extra point after yet another third period takedown.      

 

I wasn't giving him credit it for it, but you were basically discrediting him for it when it can't be an argument either way - NCAA's didn't happen.

So in folkstyle all we have to judge him on is his true freshman year where he got 3rd, dominated the guy who took 2nd, and lost twice to a guy who had a storybook season.   How many freshman heavyweights (true or redshirt for that matter) have made the finals (I honestly don't know the answer)?

Depends how you define "no injury."  Some would argue Rasheed didn't really have an injury when he MFF'd the finals and got the 2 seed at NCAA's.   I'm not sure if Steveson would have got the 1 if he did that, but it was possible since he had the win over White who had the earlier win over Cassar.

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59 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I wasn't giving him credit it for it, but you were basically discrediting him for it when it can't be an argument either way - NCAA's didn't happen.

So in folkstyle all we have to judge him on is his true freshman year where he got 3rd, dominated the guy who took 2nd, and lost twice to a guy who had a storybook season.   How many freshman heavyweights (true or redshirt for that matter) have made the finals (I honestly don't know the answer)?

Depends how you define "no injury."  Some would argue Rasheed didn't really have an injury when he MFF'd the finals and got the 2 seed at NCAA's.   I'm not sure if Steveson would have got the 1 if he did that, but it was possible since he had the win over White who had the earlier win over Cassar.

You're kidding, I assume.  Rasheed had a giant knee brace, missed a bunch of matches before Big Tens, was substantially favoring the injury at Big Tens and NCAAs, had no explosiveness when he wrestled, then had ACL surgery.  Steveson had no physical impairment other than his large belly. 

Steveson's early season dual meet win over White, who later made the NCAA final, in a weak field, for his only AA, is notable?  Steveson dominated White?  He hit a weird 6 point move (even more weird, it was the same one Cassar hit against White, single leg, with White failing to turn to his stomach and getting caught on his back for the NF) in the first minute, then did nothing.  Maybe if he'd tried to dominate and wrestled 7 minutes, the experience of having done so against a good opponent would have come in handy against Cassar.

I didn't discredit Steveson for anything.  I just am not crediting for something that never happened.  Why are you crediting him based on erroneous or soft arguments? 

No one is saying this guy isn't potentially special, but if you want to compare him to another young, highly rated upper weight recruit, try Kyle Snyder.  At 20, he had a world title, and an Olympic gold, and mixed in there had won an NCAA heavyweight championship by snapping the 88 match winning streak of a guy 40 pounds heavier than him -- by wrestling seven full, incredible minutes.  A retirement tweet from him wouldn't be laughable and the subject of a mocking response from Cassar. 

I wish Steveson good luck and hope he wins gold if he makes the Olympics.  Just being realistic about his record.

Edited by drag it

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39 minutes ago, drag it said:

You're kidding, I assume.  Rasheed had a giant knee brace, missed a bunch of matches before Big Tens, was substantially favoring the injury at Big Tens and NCAAs, had no explosiveness when he wrestled, then had ACL surgery.  Steveson had no physical impairment other than his large belly. 

Steveson's early season dual meet win over White, who later made the NCAA final, in a weak field, for his only AA, is notable?  Steveson dominated White?  He hit a weird 6 point move (even more weird, it was the same one Cassar hit against White, single leg, with White failing to turn to his stomach and getting caught on his back for the NF) in the first minute, then did nothing.  Maybe if he'd tried to dominate and wrestled 7 minutes, the experience of having done so against a good opponent would have come in handy against Cassar.

I didn't discredit Steveson for anything.  I just am not crediting for something that never happened.  Why are you crediting him based on erroneous or soft arguments? 

No one is saying this guy isn't potentially special, but if you want to compare him to another young, highly rated upper weight recruit, try Kyle Snyder.  At 20, he had a world title, and an Olympic gold, and mixed in there had won an NCAA heavyweight championship by snapping the 88 match winning streak of a guy 40 pounds heavier than him -- by wrestling seven full, incredible minutes.  A retirement tweet from him wouldn't be laughable and the subject of a mocking response from Cassar. 

I wish Steveson good luck and hope he wins gold if he makes the Olympics.  Just being realistic about his record.

Again I wasn't crediting him for it, I just think it's disingenous to knock him for "not making an NCAA final" - he only had 1 chance, and he had already beaten 1 of the finalists.  He just happened to be on the same side of the bracket as the only guy that was able to beat him that year.

Knocking him for not winning the title I get, since some had anointed him as a 4x'er.   But knocking him for "not making an NCAA final" isn't really fair IMO.

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29 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Again I wasn't crediting him for it, I just think it's disingenous to knock him for "not making an NCAA final" - he only had 1 chance, and he had already beaten 1 of the finalists.  He just happened to be on the same side of the bracket as the only guy that was able to beat him that year.

Knocking him for not winning the title I get, since some had anointed him as a 4x'er.   But knocking him for "not making an NCAA final" isn't really fair IMO.

Because you seem very troubled by the accurate assertion that Steveson hasn't wrestled in an NCAA final (so much so that you've ignored my other arguments, and repeatedly used a word in describing my arguments that connotes dishonesty), I am happy to revise my description:  Steveson is announcing his retirement at a time when he has zero NCAA titles and has not wrestled on a senior U.S. national team, which is the reason that he has gotten some flack in this thread.

I'll even go so far as to concede that if he had defaulted rather than wrestling and gassing out against Cassar at Big Tens, Steveson could have had a chance at NCAAs to gas out against Cassar in the finals rather than the semis.  So, for argument's sake, let's give him an NCAA finalist credential as a reward for not MFFing at Big Tens, without even a hint of an injury, in front of 12,000 hometown fans.  I still think that Snyder's world gold, Olympic gold, and NCAA heavyweight title over a guy with a 40 pound weight advantage and an 88 match win streak gives him a razor-thin edge over Steveson's one hypothetical NCAA runner-up in the who-would-be-the-GOAT-if-they-sent-out-a-retirement-tweet-at-20 contest. 

Cox (true freshman 197 lb. NCAA champ at 19, 2x NCAA champ and Olympic bronze by 21) would be another example of a guy whose retirement tweet would get more love from those of us who think Steveson should just wrestle till he's done and then announce he's retiring -- like everyone else, including the many people with better records than him.

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6 hours ago, drag it said:

Becoming ause you seem very troubled by the accurate assertion that Steveson hasn't wrestled in an NCAA final (so much so that you've ignored my other arguments, and repeatedly used a word in describing my arguments that connotes dishonesty), I am happy to revise my description:  Steveson is announcing his retirement at a time when he has zero NCAA titles and has not wrestled on a senior U.S. national team, which is the reason that he has gotten some flack in this thread.

I'll even go so far as to concede that if he had defaulted rather than wrestling and gassing out against Cassar at Big Tens, Steveson could have had a chance at NCAAs to gas out against Cassar in the finals rather than the semis.  So, for argument's sake, let's give him an NCAA finalist credential as a reward for not MFFing at Big Tens, without even a hint of an injury, in front of 12,000 hometown fans.  I still think that Snyder's world gold, Olympic gold, and NCAA heavyweight title over a guy with a 40 pound weight advantage and an 88 match win streak gives him a razor-thin edge over Steveson's one hypothetical NCAA runner-up in the who-would-be-the-GOAT-if-they-sent-out-a-retirement-tweet-at-20 contest. 

Cox (true freshman 197 lb. NCAA champ at 19, 2x NCAA champ and Olympic bronze by 21) would be another example of a guy whose retirement tweet would get more love from those of us who think Steveson should just wrestle till he's done and then announce he's retiring -- like everyone else, including the many people with better records than him.

I agree with most of this.  I didn’t say anything about him being the “GOAT heavyweight,” all I said was I think he was being unfairly criticized for “not making a final” because he got 3rd in his 1 and only chance as a true freshman.

Yeah, in terms of NCAA GOAT heavyweights, he may not have been catching Snyder.  Technically, if he won 3 titles you could have probably made the argument for it, since Snyder was 197 as a freshman (and not a heavyweight in international competition if we’re including that too).  Of course that wasn’t a given, especially with guys like Parris and Kerk in the field too.

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