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Steveson retiring after this year?

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1 hour ago, Lurker said:

 Bruce lost first rd to Iran in ‘91

With today’s depth pool worldwide, topping Bruce is going to be pretty difficult to do for any American HWT. 

At least in Bruce’s day, you had to really earn that bronze by winning a third place match.  

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21 hours ago, uncle bernard said:

Two great wins and if he were able to continue that trajectory on the senior level (and stay healthy obviously) Cassar would be on a great path towards GOAT status. However, he hasn't been able to do that.

This is the whole point. Lots of guys at lots if they continue their trajectory/continue to win/continue to progress can eventually become GOAT of their weight. The whole point is the "if" part, no, the "IF" part. 

Goat occurs after the fact, not before. Projecting is just that, projecting. Keep in mind that people were saying crazy stuff like this during Gable's true freshman year, then Cassar stopped him in his tracks TWICE. 

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3 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

This is the whole point. Lots of guys at lots if they continue their trajectory/continue to win/continue to progress can eventually become GOAT of their weight. The whole point is the "if" part, no, the "IF" part. 

Goat occurs after the fact, not before. Projecting is just that, projecting. Keep in mind that people were saying crazy stuff like this during Gable's true freshman year, then Cassar stopped him in his tracks TWICE. 

Wait,  you didn’t get banned?

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On 12/12/2020 at 8:54 AM, jchapman said:

Yes, Dick Hutton was a true freshman heavyweight champ.

That is true but Dick Hutton was not 18 years old as Gable was.  Hutton spent the end of his teenage years and early 20s in the military (WW II) and was 23 when he won his title in 1947.

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On 12/12/2020 at 1:42 PM, TBar1977 said:

This is the whole point. Lots of guys at lots if they continue their trajectory/continue to win/continue to progress can eventually become GOAT of their weight. The whole point is the "if" part, no, the "IF" part. 

Goat occurs after the fact, not before. Projecting is just that, projecting. Keep in mind that people were saying crazy stuff like this during Gable's true freshman year, then Cassar stopped him in his tracks TWICE. 

What do you think this conversation is about? Can you point me to a single person without the last name 'Steveson" who thinks Gable is the current GOAT? It's a fun fan conversation. If your point is that "nothing is guaranteed," you've missed the point entirely.

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1 hour ago, uncle bernard said:

What do you think this conversation is about? Can you point me to a single person without the last name 'Steveson" who thinks Gable is the current GOAT? It's a fun fan conversation. If your point is that "nothing is guaranteed," you've missed the point entirely.

I don't think I missed anything. A lot of guys saying he's "on pace" to be Hwt. Goat. It doesn't mean much of anything given how little he has accomplished at the Sr. level. 

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One person, one time said “on pace to be the goat”. That’s far from a lot. Very far. And even with that he referenced it to his age group world accomplishments, which does surpass any age group accomplishments of any other age group HWT. There have been a couple others here who said he has/had potential to be. Which is again, far from “a lot of people saying he is on pace” to be  

Why do people get so testy over discussion about another’s potential?  Makes you wonder...

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1 hour ago, Lurker said:

One person, one time said “on pace to be the goat”. That’s far from a lot. Very far. And even with that he referenced it to his age group world accomplishments, which does surpass any age group accomplishments of any other age group HWT. There have been a couple others here who said he has/had potential to be. Which is again, far from “a lot of people saying he is on pace” to be  

Why do people get so testy over discussion about another’s potential?  Makes you wonder...

Testiness is a two way street, and why are you so testy that someone defends their position? 

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1 hour ago, TBar1977 said:

Testiness is a two way street, and why are you so testy that someone defends their position? 

Not testy at all, nor is it a two way street like dancing or a marriage. just keeping things accurate. For example, when someone turns one person into “a lot of people”. 

Good response though. 

Edited by Lurker

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1 hour ago, hammerlockthree said:

Cause its the easiest way to get people to listen to you.  If you say the most extreme thing you either A) Know something no one else does, B)Are an object of contempt....people have uses for both.

Valid

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On 12/10/2020 at 2:33 PM, uncle bernard said:

Even by your own underplaying of his achievements, he's on pace to be the GOAT heavyweight. He's 20 years old. He would have walked to a title last year, but it got cancelled. Now he's soundly beaten the 2x world medalist incumbent heavyweight and is the favorite to make the Olympic team. None of the great USA heavies were that successful early on. That's why people talk about him having the potential to be the GOAT.

 

On 12/11/2020 at 3:41 PM, uncle bernard said:

Based on being the favorite to make the Olympic team at 20 over a multiple time medalist in addition to the trajectory his junior results indicate. Like I said, he is not the current GOAT. However, it's pretty reasonable for fans to think that if he continues to wrestle over multiple cycles, he would end up the GOAT.

This whole conversation is about projecting the future. Nobody to my knowledge thinks he's the GOAT right now, so bringing up a lack of championships (a little disingenuous because I think we all know he would have won this year) is pointless. It's about, based on where he is right now as a 20 year old, where people think he could end up as a 32 year old. I think it's safe to say, he's the most decorated 20 year old heavyweight in USA history. Hence why many think if he competes long enough he'd end up the GOAT.

 

On 12/11/2020 at 3:45 PM, uncle bernard said:

Two great wins and if he were able to continue that trajectory on the senior level (and stay healthy obviously) Cassar would be on a great path towards GOAT status. However, he hasn't been able to do that.

This whole convo is a little silly because it requires projecting these guys' careers 10+ years into the future. Guys like Parris and Kerk are also still young enough where they could end up taking the next big jump and start contending for senior medals soon. Who knows how this group of heavies shakes out in the next decade?

However, I don't think you can say people predicting Gable to eventually be the GOAT is silly. He's pretty clearly on a path that puts him in position to become that if he continues to progress.

 

On 12/12/2020 at 2:26 AM, MSU158 said:

Correct me if I am wrong, but has there ever even been a freshman heavyweight champ?  How about a true freshman?  Taking 3rd as a true freshman with his only 2 losses being by 1 point to the eventual champ and a 5th year sophomore can’t really be used as a knock. 
Add In that he was CLEARLY ahead of the entire field as a sophomore.   He was undefeated  and well on his way to his 1st championship. If not for Covid, he should be a 3,1,?,? with 2 career losses in 2 seasons. 
 

GOAT over all weights?  Nope. But at HWT? Definitely on pace to be considered. With Kerkvliet added to the field, Gable can write his own legacy if he can run the table. 

 

1 hour ago, Lurker said:

Not testy at all, nor is it a two way street like dancing or a marriage. just keeping things accurate. For example, when someone turns one person into “a lot of people”. 

Good response though. 

Don't shortchange me. I am clearly turning two different guys into a lot of people!

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13 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

 

 

 

 

Don't shortchange me. I am clearly turning two different guys into a lot of people!

Is 2 a lot?  Clearly, we are both only saying Stevenson is on pace. Which is all you can say for a guy that has only wrestled 2 seasons, with one of them ending early due to Covid. 
 

Not much to see here........

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2 hours ago, MSU158 said:

Is 2 a lot?  Clearly, we are both only saying Stevenson is on pace. Which is all you can say for a guy that has only wrestled 2 seasons, with one of them ending early due to Covid. 
 

Not much to see here........

Wake me up when he accomplishes something like winning a Sr. level world medal. 

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18 hours ago, Bigfan1936 said:

Mocco made the finals as a true freshman. Then undefeated champ. Then champ and Hodge winner. Then lost in the finals(nothing is guaranteed). Basically Gable isn’t Mocco yet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Was Mocco beating world medalists at that point (or ever)?

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20 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

I don't think I missed anything. A lot of guys saying he's "on pace" to be Hwt. Goat. It doesn't mean much of anything given how little he has accomplished at the Sr. level. 

So you concede the point. He is currently the most accomplished US heavyweight for his age which is why many think he will become the best ever. 

And I will concede that it doesn't mean much until he does it. Like I previously said, this is a fun fan forum thing to talk about and no reason to get so defensive.

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22 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

So you concede the point. He is currently the most accomplished US heavyweight for his age which is why many think he will become the best ever. 

And I will concede that it doesn't mean much until he does it. Like I previously said, this is a fun fan forum thing to talk about and no reason to get so defensive.

Who said I am defensive? You guys did. I'm just engaging in "fun" talk that disagrees with your claim that Steveson is on a path to be Hwt. GOAT, something he can't really possibly ever really attain given Baumgartner's vast accomplishments. He hasn't even made a Sr. level world team yet. He's good, so let's just enjoy that aspect of his wrestling. 

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