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Is Burroughs / Taylor going to happen or not?

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8 hours ago, hammerlockthree said:

Taylor is likely at his peak, Burroughs has had to adjust his style for years even before his last world title. He is far from his best.

Taylor had to eek out a win over Gabe Dean in his most recent bout.  How do you know he's at his peak?  A tech is laughable.  

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8 hours ago, hammerlockthree said:

Burroughs gets tired. He got beat off the same shot that he knew as coming both times by Sidakov 2 years in a row, thats fatigue or incompetence. Geduev wore him out....if he was in such great shape he wouldn't have to brag on his sprint so often. 

I'm not saying he quits, but he's diminished by the end of the match.

 

8 hours ago, hammerlockthree said:

Also, we know who is gonna get tired. Burroughs has to go out to a lead and hang on. 

Based on history and DT's gas tank (I say based on history because anything and everything is unpredictable right now), "gas tank" at the end of the match could very well be a big factor in this match.  But you're description of JB's history at the end of matches is really inaccurate.  Yes, he lost in a very similar step out fashion twice to Sidakov.  I saw bad tactics not inferior gas tank.  Geduev got in his head by bullying him much more so than wearing down his physical conditioning.  JB has had numerous, numerous come from behind late scores to win a match.  Too many to even begin to list.....including his last match at 86. And including against Taylor.

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this is clearly a fantasy match, I'm actually more surprised JB is taking the challenge. Although we all know JB will never back down from a challenge.

DT's size will be the difference but i doubt he techs him. Good for wrestling and a bonus when you sign up for Flo for the year. 

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I’m going with JB. It makes no sense for him to win, but he will. 
  
JB has nothing to lose. DT will look bad for losing to a much smaller guy, but nobody will care if he makes the team and medals. It will just elevate JB more, not diminish Taylor. 
  
A loss might be good for Taylor. It will give him a little extra motivation going into trials prep. He will have a ton of doubters if he loses. 

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3 hours ago, Lurker said:

 

Based on history and DT's gas tank (I say based on history because anything and everything is unpredictable right now), "gas tank" at the end of the match could very well be a big factor in this match.  But you're description of JB's history at the end of matches is really inaccurate.  Yes, he lost in a very similar step out fashion twice to Sidakov.  I saw bad tactics not inferior gas tank.  Geduev got in his head by bullying him much more so than wearing down his physical conditioning.  JB has had numerous, numerous come from behind late scores to win a match.  Too many to even begin to list.....including his last match at 86. And including against Taylor.

Let me put it this way, there are a tier of guys who essentially sprint the whole match, Taylor is in it, Burroughs isn't.

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5 minutes ago, hammerlockthree said:

Let me put it this way, there are a tier of guys who essentially sprint the whole match, Taylor is in it, Burroughs isn't.

Okay I can agree with that, somewhat. (I don't know about "tier")  That's a matter of style, not level of conditioning, or 'tier' either is currently on.  Nor does it say that Burroughs fades late in matches and has to get a lead early and hang on...which is completely inaccurate of his overall results.

Satiev didn't sprint the whole match, I don't know that under any qualification he could be considered a tier below Taylor.  

Edited by Lurker

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1 minute ago, Lurker said:

Okay I can agree with that, somewhat. (I don't know about "tier")  That's a matter of style, not level of conditioning, or 'tier' either is currently on.  Nor does it say that Burroughs fades late in matches and has to get a lead early and hang on...which is completely inaccurate of his overall results.

Satiev didn't sprint the whole match, I don't know that under any qualification he could be considered a tier below Taylor.  

Well like you said Saitiev's style was that he was great at everything, kind of defeats the purpose of sprinting the whole match.

My conception of Burroughs is that he is not a grinder, and can be diminshed by fatigue, but mitigates this with tremendous courage late in matches. Maybe I made my case too strongly before and it had the effect of overstating my view.

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1 minute ago, hammerlockthree said:

Well like you said Saitiev's style was that he was great at everything, kind of defeats the purpose of sprinting the whole match.

My conception of Burroughs is that he is not a grinder, and can be diminshed by fatigue, but mitigates this with tremendous courage late in matches. Maybe I made my case too strongly before and it had the effect of overstating my view.

I hear ya, but have to respectfully disagree.  I would argue JB is very much a grinder (by evidence of how often he has found a way to win late in the match), but that he is just more selective of when its time to grind it out to win.  Not undefeated obviously, but he has done that successfully much more than not.

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44 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

Satiev is the best wrestler of all time comparing him to JB is like comparing James Worthy or Tracy McGrady to Jordan. Sure, you're in the hall of fame but that's where the conversation comes to a full stop.

I would say more like comparing Kobe or Kareem to Jordan. JB is one of the greats.

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1 hour ago, bnwtwg said:

Satiev is the best wrestler of all time comparing him to JB is like comparing James Worthy or Tracy McGrady to Jordan. Sure, you're in the hall of fame but that's where the conversation comes to a full stop.

I wasn’t comparing Satiev to JB. I was using Satiev as an example that the pace at which you wrestle is not really an indicator of what “tier” you’re on. And to your point, arguably the best of all time, while his ‘sprints’ were very short and selective. 

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21 minutes ago, Lurker said:

I wasn’t comparing Satiev to JB. I was using Satiev as an example that the pace at which you wrestle is not really an indicator of what “tier” you’re on. And to your point, arguably the best of all time, while his ‘sprints’ were very short and selective. 

Fair enough I didn't see it from that perspective. And just to ask... you say that Satiev is "only" arguably the best, who else would you debate other than Karelin having that claim?

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6 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

Fair enough I didn't see it from that perspective. And just to ask... you say that Satiev is "only" arguably the best, who else would you debate other than Karelin having that claim?

Really the “arguably” is for nothing more than the fact that when talking about the best of all time, it’s simply that....an argument/debate/discussion. BUT, you could certainly throw Alexander Medved into the argument. 1961-1972: 12 medals (in three different weight classes) and 10 gold (in two different weight classes). If it’s not all about number of titles then I think arguments could be made for Sergei Belaglosov. I think you could make arguments for Smith, who beat Bela. This is just keeping it in FS. 
 

So I don’t necessarily disagree with you. But like I said...arguably. 

Edited by Lurker

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9 minutes ago, KayakArchitect said:

Anyone know each's current walking around weight?

Has there been a definitive weigh-in schedule? 1hr is so different than 3hrs. 
 

The match is at 86kg (189lbs).

Weigh-in procedures won't matter to them.  JB weighed in at 178(7lbs under his 185lb limit) against Valencia.

DT still 'had to lose a pound or two' when he was 2 weeks out of his PD3 (which ended up being Martin).  I believe their match was originally 195, but when Martin signed on it was changed to 200. That means he was 196/197 then.

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How does anyone watch that interview and not think JB knows he is going to win and Taylor, nervously rubbing his head, is thinking oh no what have I gotten myself into?  These guys have wrestled in training with this weight difference - JB knows how Taylor feels at this size.  JB is so cerebral in his analysis; DT is like just put me on the mat and hit go.

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17 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

The match is at 86kg (189lbs).

Weigh-in procedures won't matter to them.  JB weighed in at 178(7lbs under his 185lb limit) against Valencia.

DT still 'had to lose a pound or two' when he was 2 weeks out of his PD3 (which ended up being Martin).  I believe their match was originally 195, but when Martin signed on it was changed to 200. That means he was 196/197 then.

Taylor has got to be around 200 pounds. i think the weigh in matters

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6 minutes ago, Broomstick said:

How does anyone watch that interview and not think JB knows he is going to win and Taylor, nervously rubbing his head, is thinking oh no what have I gotten myself into?  These guys have wrestled in training with this weight difference - JB knows how Taylor feels at this size.  JB is so cerebral in his analysis; DT is like just put me on the mat and hit go.

Very good point. I would think JB knows how he matches up with 86kg Taylor better than anyone around here. 
 

But just to be playing devils advocate, on the basis of the reality that none of us here know anything, JB could also know he’s in for a beating but taking it and hyping it for the payday. And DT scratching his head could be “dude...do you not remember all those times in the room the last two years?  Okay..”

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5 hours ago, hammerlockthree said:

One more point in the form of a question, is Burroughs in better shape than yazdani-Chariti? 

Tech is in the cards.

They’ve wrestled before. Burroughs won on a late takedown in one of them. Was Taylor not in shape then?  Do you think he now has a better gas tank at 200 lbs. Imo after the dean match JB is licking his chops. 

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1 minute ago, AnklePicker said:

They’ve wrestled before. Burroughs won on a late takedown in one of them. Was Taylor not in shape then?  Do you think he now has a better gas tank at 200 lbs. Imo after the dean match JB is licking his chops. 

Taylor didn't have pubic hair during the match you are referencing. 

I think his gas tank is just as good at 200lbs.

You give Dean too little credit, also he is a 20lbs bigger than burroughs, and is way more a grinder. 

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