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lu1979

Kerkvliet is unreal

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57kg then 125kg have the most depth in regards to world medal achievement + potential. 

57: Colon (1x bronze), Garrett, Gilman (1x silver, 1x 5th), Graff (1x 5th) Gross, Fix, Lee, Micic (2x 5th), Suriano, Vito. Would anyone surprise you if they get a medal? 57 is always crazy. 

65: JO, McKenna, Yianni, Zain. If the US even qualifies it will be a moral victory, but a medal is highly unlikely.

74: Dake (2x gold), Imar, JB (5x gold, 3x bronze). If the US rep doesn't medal it would be a disappointment.

86: Taylor (1x gold), Nickal?, Ringer [injured], Zahid. If the US rep doesn't medal it would be a disappointment.

97: Cox (2x gold, 2x bronze), Nickal?, Snyder (3x gold, 1x silver, 1x bronze). If the US rep doesn't medal it would be a disappointment.

125: Cassar, Kerkvliet, Gwiz (2x bronze), Parris, Steveson. Only Cassar would be a pleasant surprise to be the rep or get a medal, but he had a meteoric rise before tearing his shoulder so giving the benefit of the doubt if he is healed up.

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8 hours ago, ConnorsDad said:

Real quick, IMO, if you are talking 1-5 or so or total depth, 125 is deeper than 97 or 86. I'll look at the others later.

I am thinking on world tiers.

Tier 1 being World Championship contender.

Tier 2 being World medalist contender regardless of draw

Tier 3 being World medalist contender/win a few matches depending on draw

Tier 4 being medalist contender at a ranking series event

Tier 5 being win a match or three at a ranking series event against non-cans.

Tier 6 being nonfactor on the international stage.

At 125 we have what I believe is one Tier 2(Gable), three Tier 3(Gwiaz, Parris, Kerk), maybe a couple Tier 5 (Bradley, Nelson), then a slew of Tier 6 guys.

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On 12/29/2020 at 11:12 AM, Housebuye said:

I don’t think that is possible. They have to be in training camps. Most routinely train with college teams. They also usually train with the rest of the team and the #2S and #3s. An outbreak could set us back. 
   
I hope it works out, but if a 5 string was hoping to make the team, this is the year to do it. 
  
Just interesting to me. Not sure what will happen. I hope all of our #1s go. I hope we qualify the weights. 

All FS weights are qualified except 65.

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On 12/28/2020 at 3:49 PM, cjc007 said:

I was hoping Nelson realized he best days are over in competitive wrestling.

 

I think this is a bad take. As a fan of wrestling I hope these guys continue competing as long as they're able to, especially while they're still competitive and winning matches. Recently, I saw someone send Zach Sanders a message on Twitter telling him to quit wrestling, on a post he made about the RTC Cup. This doesn't make any sense to me since he had won matches there and they were entertaining ones. Not only that but these guys are able to support themselves now with wrestling (and coaching) while doing what they love. Sure they're a bit outside of the competitive ages we've seen in the past for wrestling but they're not too old to compete. We see older athletes in other sports all the time. A big reason we didn't see guys stick around as long was because it generally wasn't financially viable without a lot of success. At a certain point the money might be needed for someone younger/better but that doesn't seem to be the case yet. It's a hard sport but if they still enjoy it they shouldn't be encouraged to stop. 

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On 12/29/2020 at 8:17 AM, TBar1977 said:

Agree. I would also think the vaccine calendar will be their friend so long as things don't go sideways. 

I don't know about that. I believe they're way behind on their vaccination projections (2 million vs. 20 million by year end) and you'd have to think these guys are in one of the last tiers for eligibility to receive the vaccine. Are Olympic hopefuls going to be placed in a higher tier than regular healthy people?

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I think this is a bad take. As a fan of wrestling I hope these guys continue competing as long as they're able to, especially while they're still competitive and winning matches. Recently, I saw someone send Zach Sanders a message on Twitter telling him to quit wrestling, on a post he made about the RTC Cup. This doesn't make any sense to me since he had won matches there and they were entertaining ones. Not only that but these guys are able to support themselves now with wrestling (and coaching) while doing what they love. Sure they're a bit outside of the competitive ages we've seen in the past for wrestling but they're not too old to compete. We see older athletes in other sports all the time. A big reason we didn't see guys stick around as long was because it generally wasn't financially viable without a lot of success. At a certain point the money might be needed for someone younger/better but that doesn't seem to be the case yet. It's a hard sport but if they still enjoy it they shouldn't be encouraged to stop. 

I'm not discouraging Nelson's folly. I'm just commenting on it. "His best days in competitive wrestling are in his rear view mirror."

 

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I'm not discouraging Nelson's folly. I'm just commenting on it. "His best days in competitive wrestling are in his rear view mirror." 
Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk
 
 
 

That's not what you said. You said you hope he realizes his best days are behind him. Why do you hope that unless you want him to stop wrestling?

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On 12/29/2020 at 8:06 AM, Housebuye said:

Agreed. 
  
It is fairly likely one or more of the top 4 miss trials due to injury or Covid. Depending on what rules the Olympics and USA wrestling puts into place, it is possible our rep and/or 2nd string don’t make it to Tokyo. 
  
For a non #1, this is probably the best year in history to make the team. The likelihood we send our actual #1s is fairly slim. 

 

On 12/29/2020 at 8:11 AM, Lurker said:

I don't know man, I can see...once we get our #1's sorted out, those guys and their training partners stay under a pretty tight lock and key.

 

On 12/29/2020 at 11:17 AM, TBar1977 said:

Agree. I would also think the vaccine calendar will be their friend so long as things don't go sideways. 

 

9 hours ago, Relentless125 said:

I don't know about that. I believe they're way behind on their vaccination projections (2 million vs. 20 million by year end) and you'd have to think these guys are in one of the last tiers for eligibility to receive the vaccine. Are Olympic hopefuls going to be placed in a higher tier than regular healthy people?

For what we are talking about I don't know if that is necessary. They will either have the trials or they won't. I believe they will happen and the vaccine effort will/should have many more millions of people vaccinated by then making the trails even more likely. Taking out the injury part because my post really wasn't about that, for one of the top 4 to miss trials (the assertion that started this part of the thread) one would have to think they'll be infected with the virus and unable to compete right when the trials are happening and during a time when more and more people every day are building anti bodies. I don't see that as likely, even though they are behind, even if only because we are talking about young athletes. Even if one of them contract Covid 19 in, say, February, they could be fully recovered by the time trials start. 

EDIT: Today's NY Times ran an article saying that 4.2 million doses have been administered so far out of 13 million shipped. In other reports it is stated that the US has purchased 400 million doses in total from Pfizer and Moderna. Both drug makers are producing at full capacity. I have to think the delivery will improve going forward. A Federal Pharmacy Program has been developed for delivery to the general population and some drug stores are advertising that they will be offering the vaccine "soon". Some have narrowed the time to "late winter/early spring". Maybe I am just too optimistic but I am not worried about any of the top heavyweights missing Olympic Trials, but that is just my take. 

Edited by TBar1977

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That's not what you said. You said you hope he realizes his best days are behind him. Why do you hope that unless you want him to stop wrestling?

Because he isn't going to be our Olympic representative. He is wasting his time trying. I'm not sure what his career goals are, but he would be better back at the farm than trying to win an Olympic spot without any offense to speak of. He's just wasting his time imo.  

 

 

Do you get it now? He is washed up!

 

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33 minutes ago, cjc007 said:

Because he isn't going to be our Olympic representative. He is wasting his time trying. I'm not sure what his career goals are, but he would be better back at the farm than trying to win an Olympic spot without any offense to speak of. He's just wasting his time imo.  

 

 

Do you get it now? He is washed up!

 

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

 

Thankfully he has you to be his authority on how efficiently he is spending his time and his career.  

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On 1/3/2021 at 8:09 AM, cjc007 said:

I'm not discouraging Nelson's folly. I'm just commenting on it.

 

56 minutes ago, cjc007 said:

He is wasting his time trying. I'm not sure what his career goals are, but he would be better back at the farm than trying to win an Olympic spot without any offense to speak of. He's just wasting his time imo.

I think you should make up your mind.

Also, you only have so much time to wrestle. Who are you to decide if he is wasting his time to compete during the vanishingly small window of life where that is a possibility? Of all the heavyweight wrestlers in the country, he is one of fewer than ten that are qualified for the Olympic Trials. Doesn't sound like a waste of time to me if you make it to the final qualifier for the Olympics. 

The US also sent a #9 seed from the trials to the Olympics in 2016.

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39 minutes ago, IronChef said:

 

I think you should make up your mind.

Also, you only have so much time to wrestle. Who are you to decide if he is wasting his time to compete during the vanishingly small window of life where that is a possibility? Of all the heavyweight wrestlers in the country, he is one of fewer than ten that are qualified for the Olympic Trials. Doesn't sound like a waste of time to me if you make it to the final qualifier for the Olympics. 

The US also sent a #9 seed from the trials to the Olympics in 2016.

I would imagine that he is also likely a very valuable training partner for Steveson.

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5 hours ago, cjc007 said:

Because he isn't going to be our Olympic representative. He is wasting his time trying. I'm not sure what his career goals are, but he would be better back at the farm than trying to win an Olympic spot without any offense to speak of. He's just wasting his time imo.  

 

 

Do you get it now? He is washed up!

 

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

 

So Steveson's #1 training partner should just... hang them up... because he isn't the #1 or #2 guy in the country?

You're spare parts, bud.

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4 hours ago, IronChef said:

 

I think you should make up your mind.

Also, you only have so much time to wrestle. Who are you to decide if he is wasting his time to compete during the vanishingly small window of life where that is a possibility? Of all the heavyweight wrestlers in the country, he is one of fewer than ten that are qualified for the Olympic Trials. Doesn't sound like a waste of time to me if you make it to the final qualifier for the Olympics. 

The US also sent a #9 seed from the trials to the Olympics in 2016.

If I’m not mistaken we actually sent two. One came home with a medal and the other came within ‘just run backwards” from another medal.

But I agree with cjc. The guy is wasting his time making a living doing what he loves to do. 

Edited by Lurker

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3 hours ago, Lurker said:

If I’m not mistaken we actually sent two. One came home with a medal and the other came within ‘just run backwards” from another medal.

But I agree with cjc. The guy is wasting his time making a living doing what he loves to do. 

In his defense they were tough on the "just run backwards" in that Olympics! (Mongolian stripping exhibition)

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2 hours ago, AHamilton said:

In his defense they were tough on the "just run backwards" in that Olympics! (Mongolian stripping exhibition)

Wasn’t referring to being passive at all. Was referring to the last five seconds of the bronze medal match with Chamizo. He was behind, at his ankles, with Chamizos feet up in the air and all weight on his hands. Couldn’t get the knee down. 
 

Run backwards, hands can’t keep up. Fall flat on their face....

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1 hour ago, Lurker said:

Wasn’t referring to being passive at all. Was referring to the last five seconds of the bronze medal match with Chamizo. He was behind, at his ankles, with Chamizos feet up in the air and all weight on his hands. Couldn’t get the knee down. 
 

Run backwards, hands can’t keep up. Fall flat on their face....

Ah, ok... I didn't remember the end of the Frank match him needing to be defensive.  Thanks for the clarification.

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10 hours ago, Lurker said:

Wasn’t referring to being passive at all. Was referring to the last five seconds of the bronze medal match with Chamizo. He was behind, at his ankles, with Chamizos feet up in the air and all weight on his hands. Couldn’t get the knee down. 
 

Run backwards, hands can’t keep up. Fall flat on their face....

I have always thought that having a "folkstyle" mindset about out of bounds rules may have cost Molinaro the bronze medal in that instance.  I disagree with you on the run backwards strategy especially with Chamizo.  What he should have done is not stop at the edge at all but drive hard through Chamizo running him out of bounds.  In Freestyle that will almost always give the 2 Point TD to the attacking wrestler.  In FS most attacks that end up out of bounds are scored as 2.  The same attacks in folkstyle would yield nothing as they would be considered "off the mat".  It is one area that our guys definitely need to adjust their mindset on when making the switch from Folk to FS.

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3 minutes ago, lu1979 said:

I have always thought that having a "folkstyle" mindset about out of bounds rules may have cost Molinaro the bronze medal in that instance.  I disagree with you on the run backwards strategy especially with Chamizo.  What he should have done is not stop at the edge at all but drive hard through Chamizo running him out of bounds.  In Freestyle that will almost always give the 2 Point TD to the attacking wrestler.  In FS most attacks that end up out of bounds are scored as 2.  The same attacks in folkstyle would yield nothing as they would be considered "off the mat".  It is one area that our guys definitely need to adjust their mindset on when making the switch from Folk to FS.

I see what you’re saying with the folkstyle mentality on out of bounds and can’t disagree with what you’re saying there. 

If you remember the match he was doing a combo of driving forward and trying to slam it the knee down. A person (particularly someone like Chamizo) can maneuver on their hands much better going forward than backward. Think of the wheel barrow races, you ever see anyone try to do those backwards? It’s not pretty. 
 

I use to teach this with the leg lace, same principle. Don’t take the right hip over the left shoulder, take it back over their left knee, can’t fight on your hands going backwards. 

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1 minute ago, Lurker said:

I see what you’re saying with the folkstyle mentality on out of bounds and can’t disagree with what you’re saying there. 

If you remember the match he was doing a combo of driving forward and trying to slam it the knee down. A person (particularly someone like Chamizo) can maneuver on their hands much better going forward than backward. Think of the wheel barrow races, you ever see anyone try to do those backwards? It’s not pretty. 
 

I use to teach this with the leg lace, same principle. Don’t take the right hip over the left shoulder, take it back over their left knee, can’t fight on your hands going backwards. 

I know what your saying - It is impossible to know if any strategy would have made a difference at the end - Chamizo is really hard to score on even when it looks like you have him dead to rights. Still Frank came so close to that medal and it's hard not to think of the what ifs.

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40 minutes ago, lu1979 said:

I know what your saying - It is impossible to know if any strategy would have made a difference at the end - Chamizo is really hard to score on even when it looks like you have him dead to rights. Still Frank came so close to that medal and it's hard not to think of the what ifs.

Truth

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So Steveson's #1 training partner should just... hang them up... because he isn't the #1 or #2 guy in the country?
You're spare parts, bud.
He a great training partner, I'll give you that. Thank you for agreeing with me. I'm so satisfied now knowing you agree with me!

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9 minutes ago, cjc007 said:

He a great training partner, I'll give you that. Thank you for agreeing with me. I'm so satisfied now knowing you agree with me!

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk
 

He's still Top 5 on our ladder.  You're ignoring that fact.  Who is proven to be better right now?  He beat Kerk last year.  Kerk hasn't beaten anybody that he has lost to.  Okay, yes.  He lost to Dhesi.  Dhesi has beating Gwiazdowski before as well.  Should Gwiazdowski just hang it up, too?  You're bat$hit stupid, man.  It's a very good thing these guys don't listen to you on career advise.

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59 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

He's still Top 5 on our ladder.  You're ignoring that fact.  Who is proven to be better right now?  He beat Kerk last year.  Kerk hasn't beaten anybody that he has lost to.  Okay, yes.  He lost to Dhesi.  Dhesi has beating Gwiazdowski before as well.  Should Gwiazdowski just hang it up, too?  You're bat$hit stupid, man.  It's a very good thing these guys don't listen to you on career advise.

When did Dhesi beat Gwiz? 

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