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TripNSweep

Ben Askren to box YouTube celeb in March

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15 minutes ago, TripNSweep said:

Lawler hit him much harder and he recovered fast enough to win. If I had to choose, I would take a punch all day from Jake Paul in boxing gloves vs a punch from Robbie Lawler with MMA gloves. The fix was in plus Askren didn't care. 

Getting hit real hard a lot of times by Lawler, and then getting knocked out cold to a knee to the head, can very easily, and does,  contribute to taking a shot to the temple at another later and going stiff as a board instantly, which is exactly what happened.  Diminishing returns when you get your lights put out.

If the fix was in, he knocked his ass out anyway, Askren went stiff, he got knocked out.

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20 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Getting hit real hard a lot of times by Lawler, and then getting knocked out cold to a knee to the head, can very easily, and does,  contribute to taking a shot to the temple at another later and going stiff as a board instantly, which is exactly what happened.  Diminishing returns when you get your lights put out.

If the fix was in, he knocked his ass out anyway, Askren went stiff, he got knocked out.

I get it.... Just like when you start blacking out from drinking... it becomes easier..... right...?

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3 hours ago, Lurker said:

Getting hit real hard a lot of times by Lawler, and then getting knocked out cold to a knee to the head, can very easily, and does,  contribute to taking a shot to the temple at another later and going stiff as a board instantly, which is exactly what happened.  Diminishing returns when you get your lights put out.

If the fix was in, he knocked his ass out anyway, Askren went stiff, he got knocked out.

He got up and was good. The fix was in with the ref. 

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Ben believed he was good to continue but his footing seemed to say a different story than his words.  I could not tell if that was his normal footing or not... he looked unstable.

 

Boxing refs have allowed less stable folks to continue...

 

Ben discusses the fight with Ariel.

 

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21 minutes ago, jross said:

Ben believed he was good to continue but his footing seemed to say a different story than his words.  I could not tell if that was his normal footing or not... he looked unstable.

 

Boxing refs have allowed less stable folks to continue...

 

Ben discusses the fight with Ariel.

 

I'm sure, but I don't know that comparing ref's response in one of the biggest heavyweight title fights in history to that of a semi-celebrity exhibition bout is really comparable.

To the contrary, Meldrick Taylor was TKO'd in a fight he was winning with about four seconds left, because he didn't step forward upon request.  

Good stoppage/bad stoppage is one thing.  But claiming it was a fix when the guy obviously went stiff and out is another.

Edited by Lurker

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5 minutes ago, Lurker said:

I'm sure, but I don't know that comparing ref's response in one of the biggest heavyweight title fights in history to that of a semi-celebrity exhibition bout is really comparable.

The Askren fight was not a fix and the ref made the right call... unlike the George/Joe fight.  George knocked Joe down like 8 times in a match that should have been stopped in the first round... I wonder if there is anyone that would say... but Joe was the champ... he deserves special consideration...

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15 minutes ago, jross said:

The Askren fight was not a fix and the ref made the right call... unlike the George/Joe fight.  George knocked Joe down like 8 times in a match that should have been stopped in the first round... I wonder if there is anyone that would say... but Joe was the champ... he deserves special consideration...

Yeah, things have certainly advanced since those days as to when to stop a fight.

 

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1 hour ago, Lurker said:

I'm sure, but I don't know that comparing ref's response in one of the biggest heavyweight title fights in history to that of a semi-celebrity exhibition bout is really comparable.

To the contrary, Meldrick Taylor was TKO'd in a fight he was winning with about four seconds left, because he didn't step forward upon request.  

Good stoppage/bad stoppage is one thing.  But claiming it was a fix when the guy obviously went stiff and out is another.

Exactly. and when you are knocked down 90 seconds into a fight, it's tough to blame the ref-- and, to his credit, Askew did not.

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10 hours ago, jross said:

Ben believed he was good to continue but his footing seemed to say a different story than his words.  I could not tell if that was his normal footing or not... he looked unstable.

The “norm” in boxing after a knockdown is usually for the boxer to stand up, remain still, hold his gloves up, and look at the ref to show him that he is clear to continue.  After Ben got up he was moving his feet around. It’s not completely clear if it was somewhat to being unstable or if it was just him getting back into motion as we often seen when you return to your feet after returning to neutral in wresting/MMA. Either way that extra motion often tells a boxing ref that the guy maybe on shaky legs.  Ben was also looking past the ref at his opponent rather than at him.  The ref is looking for in clear eye contact with him in order to determine if the fighter looks good enough to continue.  Again this could just be Ben being ready to attack as he would in wrestling/MMA or it could be he hadn’t quite cleared his head by that point.  Reguardless those were signs to the ref to possibly stop the fight and with the official knowing Ben wasn’t exactly protecting himself very well prior to the knockdown he may have seen enough to stop it to protect the fighter.
 

I’d say if Ben was a little more aware of the boxing standing 8 count etiquette it may have been able to save him from the TKO if he was indeed OK to continue.  But based on the video evidence it’s hard to tell how good he really was at that point in the fights.  Three minute later he may have been more clear headed to continue, but from what the ref saw he wasn’t showing he was clearly good at the end of his assessment.  
 

Edited by MadMardigain

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17 minutes ago, MadMardigain said:

The “norm” in boxing after a knockdown is usually for the boxer to stand up, remain still, hold his gloves up, and look at the ref to show him that he is clear to continue.  After Ben got up he was moving his feet around. It’s not completely clear if it was somewhat to being unstable or if it was just him getting back into motion as we often seen when you return to your feet after returning to neutral. Either way that extra motion often tells a boxing ref that the guy maybe on shaky legs.  Ben was also looking past the ref as his opponent rather than what a ref is looking for in clear eye contact with him in order to determine if the fighter looks good to continue.  Again this could just be Ben being ready to attack as he would in wrestling or it could be he hadn’t quite cleared his head by then.  Reguardless those were signs to the ref to possibly stop the fight and with the official knowing Ben wasn’t exactly protecting himself well prior to the knockdown he may have seen enough to stop it to protect the fighter.
 

I’d say if Ben was a little more aware of the boxing standing 8 count etiquette it may have been able to save him from the TKO if he was indeed OK to continue.  But based on the video evidence it’s hard to tell how good he really was at that point in the fights.  Three minute later he may have been more clear headed to continue, but from what the ref saw he wasn’t showing he was clearly good at the end of his assessment.  
 

^100%

live i thought it was a total BS call by the ref and that it played in accordance with the entire event that night...

granted, i don't follow boxing or the rules or the unwritten rules, but, every thing you said makes total sense and upon watching the replay i am less annoyed by the ref's decision...

as an aside, the only part of the entire event that was not just totally ridiculous and just the worst example of our current culture was doja cat and for the purely obvious reasons...

i am not mad at that girl at all...

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1 hour ago, MadMardigain said:

The “norm” in boxing after a knockdown is usually for the boxer to stand up, remain still, hold his gloves up, and look at the ref to show him that he is clear to continue.  After Ben got up he was moving his feet around. It’s not completely clear if it was somewhat to being unstable or if it was just him getting back into motion as we often seen when you return to your feet after returning to neutral. Either way that extra motion often tells a boxing ref that the guy maybe on shaky legs.  Ben was also looking past the ref as his opponent rather than what a ref is looking for in clear eye contact with him in order to determine if the fighter looks good to continue.  Again this could just be Ben being ready to attack as he would in wrestling or it could be he hadn’t quite cleared his head by then.  Reguardless those were signs to the ref to possibly stop the fight and with the official knowing Ben wasn’t exactly protecting himself well prior to the knockdown he may have seen enough to stop it to protect the fighter.
 

I’d say if Ben was a little more aware of the boxing standing 8 count etiquette it may have been able to save him from the TKO if he was indeed OK to continue.  But based on the video evidence it’s hard to tell how good he really was at that point in the fights.  Three minute later he may have been more clear headed to continue, but from what the ref saw he wasn’t showing he was clearly good at the end of his assessment.  
 

100% agree.  Further around 1m 38s, Ben appears to walk into the ref...

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3 hours ago, jross said:

Ben believed he was good to continue but his footing seemed to say a different story than his words.  I could not tell if that was his normal footing or not... he looked unstable.

 

Boxing refs have allowed less stable folks to continue...

 

Ben discusses the fight with Ariel.

 

Great interview. Ben is a good dude with a good perspective. I disagree with him on sooooo many things, but I respect his outlook because he lives it. 

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2 hours ago, Drake_Mallard said:

Great interview. Ben is a good dude with a good perspective. I disagree with him on sooooo many things, but I respect his outlook because he lives it. 

Exactly...I feel like a dang Askren fanboy constantly defending him on here. I'm really not, I just I genuinely cannot understand why half this board has a big old hate boner for him. 

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18 minutes ago, SignificantACCBias said:

Exactly...I feel like a dang Askren fanboy constantly defending him on here. I'm really not, I just I genuinely cannot understand why half this board has a big old hate boner for him. 

He wore the wrong color singlet for a couple of years...

that’s all it takes for the meat head crowd...

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