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VakAttack

Penn State line up won't have Nick Lee and/or Kerkvleit?

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1 hour ago, gimpeltf said:

 

 

So Gimp, is he at 157 where he is certified supposedly? Or is he at a weight that would be illegal for him to wrestle at (149) at this point?  Please check the post I referred to.

Edited by AHamilton

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49 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

So Gimp, is he at 157 where he is certified supposedly? Or is he at a weight that would be illegal for him to wrestle at (149) at this point?  Please check the post I referred to.

Sorry- I was just doing a version of this answer to an exam question
Find X, Here it is. | Memes | Percentage Calculator

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4 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

Kervliet is certified 285, Beau Bartlett 157, Nick Lee 149. The Penn State lineup looks like its rounding into form.

125 Howard

133 RBY

141 Nick Lee

149 Beau Bartlett or Jarod Verkleeren or Luke Gardner

157 Brady Berge

165 Joe Lee

174 Carter Starocci

184 Aaron Brooks

197 Michael Beard

285 Greg Kerkvliet

Are Lee and Bartlett respectively  at 141 and 149, as your lineup indicates, or 149 and 157, as your initial sentence indicates.  I'm glad to see there will be a full contingent of Penn State wrestlers.  Obviously I want Iowa to win, but I want Penn State at full strength.  Salty ass lineup though.

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8 hours ago, VakAttack said:

Are Lee and Bartlett respectively  at 141 and 149, as your lineup indicates, or 149 and 157, as your initial sentence indicates.  I'm glad to see there will be a full contingent of Penn State wrestlers.  Obviously I want Iowa to win, but I want Penn State at full strength.  Salty ass lineup though.

Certified means they weighed in at that weight class for certification, not that that is the lowest weight they can certify as.

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3 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Certified means they weighed in at that weight class for certification, not that that is the lowest weight they can certify as.

Ok...I have had a complete misunderstanding of what weight certification means then.  I have always thought it meant that was the lowest weight a wrestler could compete at (and we would often see wrestlers certified at a weight class lower than they actually competed).  Thanks for the clarification.

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4 hours ago, VakAttack said:

Ok...I have had a complete misunderstanding of what weight certification means then.  I have always thought it meant that was the lowest weight a wrestler could compete at (and we would often see wrestlers certified at a weight class lower than they actually competed).  Thanks for the clarification.

The number listed on Track for weight class is just the weight class they could make on the day that they certified. Bartlett showing up at 157 means that on the day of certification, he weighed between 149.1 and 157. It is not an indication of their lowest allowed weight. 

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4 hours ago, IronChef said:

The number listed on Track for weight class is just the weight class they could make on the day that they certified. Bartlett showing up at 157 means that on the day of certification, he weighed between 149.1 and 157. It is not an indication of their lowest allowed weight. 

I would just add (my understanding) that the numbers are at full hydration and designed to ensure safe weight cutting. 

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I would also like to add that with some schools you'll see that kid's certified at what they're seemingly going to compete at.

That means they got doen to scratch weight for certifications.

I have always though this was sketchy AF.

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2 hours ago, nhs67 said:

I would also like to add that with some schools you'll see that kid's certified at what they're seemingly going to compete at.

That means they got doen to scratch weight for certifications.

I have always though this was sketchy AF.

pretty sure that is not how it works. 

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Once the certification is complete, the weight class that appears on the track roster defaults to the one they would compete at on certification day.  At that point the coach can change the weight class on the roster to whatever they choose regardless of what the athlete is eligible for.

Some coaches do it immediately, some do eventually, and some never do.

Those who do it immediately may choose to so the intended weight class is viewable, others may because they don't want to reveal what alpha weight their athlete is decending from.

Those who never do may just not get around to adjusting the weight manually (there is no penalty for not touching it and the roster weight class does not change as the eligible weight class does with the weekly allowable loss of 1.5%), or they leave it strategically so as not to tip their lineup until their athlete takes the mat.

Just because the track roster lists the athlete as immediately eligible for his intended weight class is NOT an indication of wrongdoing.

It is also relevant to this discussion that neither an athlete's current eligible weight class, nor his lowest allowable weight are viewable to the public.

EDIT to say this information is not to suggest that the safeguards of the certification can't be and never have been circumvented, but to add insight and emphasize that it would be much more common for the process to be on the level and the weights have been updated manually.  And, since I've already gone on so long, I might as well add that since the NCAA allows unlimited attempts to qualify for a weight clas, the incentive to outright cheat may be much lower than at the high school level where I know some states have a one attempt policy.  Let me know if any of my points require clarification.  I have a pretty firm grasp on the system but recognize it is complex and confusing for most observers.

Edited by JHRoseWrestling
One more thing...

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3 minutes ago, dman115 said:

The wrestler's weight is documented and listed as to what weight they would certify to wrestle that day, not the what the lowest weight they could wrestle at at a future date.

 

LOL...

Some people on here have never coached and competed before certifications began, therefore, may not know what the process is....

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1 minute ago, Lurker said:

Some people on here have never coached and competed before certifications began, therefore, may not know what the process is....

I know...I was trying to be a smart you know what as like 5 people posted the same thing just worded differently.  May have been a swing and a miss on my end...

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It seems a lot probably changed since 2001-2005 too, but having gone through the weight certification process numerous times it seems the biggest change would be the unlimited attempts.  There were unlimited attempts, but you had to wait 24 hours inbetween each attempt, and unlimited was probably not the right term.   There was a point when certifying that you would not be able to make a weight class according to the 1.5 pounds lost per week, as you would run out of weeks, unless you made scratch weight, hydrated and above 5.0% body fat.  There were always ways around a system, but it actually led to worse weight cutting that way.  Anyways, I am sure I am not up on the regulation changes so things are probably different.  There were actually two parts to the certification process, Sec 1 and Sec 2.  You would have body fat calibrated and weigh in at a "normal weight" and had to be hydrated.  Based on the 1.5 pounds per week and your body fat percentage not falling below 5%, it would say what week you could wrestle a weight class.  If it said that your lowest weight was 140.9, you could wrestle 141 eventually, but 141.1 and you could not even certify for 141, unless you did it again.  If you did pass sec 1 hydrated and based on body fat you could wrestle 141, then you would be scheduled for sec 2 in which you had to be hydrated but on scratch weight, so 141 or below and body fat had to be 5%.  Where the cheating and worse weight cutting could occur is people would wait until the last minute, cut a large amount of weight in one day, get below scratch weight and hydrate up, this way your body fat wouldn't read below 5.  Then whatever date it said you could at 1.5 pounds per week make 141, that was the week you could make it.  Until then you had to wrestle 149 or 157.  LIke I said, things have probably changed a lot, so I would be curious to hear about those changes, but that's how it worked then.

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On 1/4/2021 at 7:05 PM, TBar1977 said:

Kervliet is certified 285, Beau Bartlett 157, Nick Lee 149. The Penn State lineup looks like its rounding into form.

125 Howard

133 RBY

141 Nick Lee

149 Beau Bartlett or Jarod Verkleeren or Luke Gardner

157 Brady Berge

165 Joe Lee

174 Carter Starocci

184 Aaron Brooks

197 Michael Beard

285 Greg Kerkvliet

 

any word on Busiello?  

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On 1/4/2021 at 7:05 PM, TBar1977 said:

Kervliet is certified 285, Beau Bartlett 157, Nick Lee 149. The Penn State lineup looks like its rounding into form.

125 Howard

133 RBY

141 Nick Lee

149 Beau Bartlett or Jarod Verkleeren or Luke Gardner

157 Brady Berge

165 Joe Lee

174 Carter Starocci

184 Aaron Brooks

197 Michael Beard

285 Greg Kerkvliet

 

any word on Busiello?  

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On 1/4/2021 at 7:05 PM, TBar1977 said:

Kervliet is certified 285, Beau Bartlett 157, Nick Lee 149. The Penn State lineup looks like its rounding into form.

125 Howard

133 RBY

141 Nick Lee

149 Beau Bartlett or Jarod Verkleeren or Luke Gardner

157 Brady Berge

165 Joe Lee

174 Carter Starocci

184 Aaron Brooks

197 Michael Beard

285 Greg Kerkvliet

 

any word on Busiello?  

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On 1/6/2021 at 7:59 AM, Schuteandscore said:

It seems a lot probably changed since 2001-2005 too, but having gone through the weight certification process numerous times it seems the biggest change would be the unlimited attempts.  There were unlimited attempts, but you had to wait 24 hours inbetween each attempt, and unlimited was probably not the right term.   There was a point when certifying that you would not be able to make a weight class according to the 1.5 pounds lost per week, as you would run out of weeks, unless you made scratch weight, hydrated and above 5.0% body fat.  There were always ways around a system, but it actually led to worse weight cutting that way.  Anyways, I am sure I am not up on the regulation changes so things are probably different.  There were actually two parts to the certification process, Sec 1 and Sec 2.  You would have body fat calibrated and weigh in at a "normal weight" and had to be hydrated.  Based on the 1.5 pounds per week and your body fat percentage not falling below 5%, it would say what week you could wrestle a weight class.  If it said that your lowest weight was 140.9, you could wrestle 141 eventually, but 141.1 and you could not even certify for 141, unless you did it again.  If you did pass sec 1 hydrated and based on body fat you could wrestle 141, then you would be scheduled for sec 2 in which you had to be hydrated but on scratch weight, so 141 or below and body fat had to be 5%.  Where the cheating and worse weight cutting could occur is people would wait until the last minute, cut a large amount of weight in one day, get below scratch weight and hydrate up, this way your body fat wouldn't read below 5.  Then whatever date it said you could at 1.5 pounds per week make 141, that was the week you could make it.  Until then you had to wrestle 149 or 157.  LIke I said, things have probably changed a lot, so I would be curious to hear about those changes, but that's how it worked then.

1.5% of your alpha weight per week, not 1.5lbs and i believe its 7% body fat atleast for high school it is.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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