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Dake vs Burroughs

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Correct. He's beaten the world's best, repeatedly. I'm a Dake fan, but he's not in that conversation just yet. I hope he goes up or down, and they're both in the lineup. I can't see him, or anyone else, beating JB. Hell, JB isn't at his peak yet! :shock:

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I'm for 9-9-7 in Greco-FS-Women weight classes. I think they can do it within Olympic schedule.

 

As for KD and JB: It will be entertaining match for us to watch for years!! Add in Andrew Howe and David Taylor- It will be insane weight class in the nation for years!!!

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With the way freestyle is constructed for the most random results, I could see Dake getting a low scoring win under perfect circumstances. But to take a spot from Burroughs you have to have a perfect day and beat him, and then you have to out place him internationally, which likely means beating him again (since he's unlikely to lose to anybody else).

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With the way freestyle is constructed for the most random results, I could see Dake getting a low scoring win under perfect circumstances. But to take a spot from Burroughs you have to have a perfect day and beat him, and then you have to out place him internationally, which likely means beating him again (since he's unlikely to lose to anybody else).

 

I think some of you are delusional. Seriously. If Tsargush and Gadzouri can't beat Burroughs and they are light years better than Dark. What planet do you think Dake has against JB? You realize that JB is only scratching the surface while guys like Dake wrestled FS while still in college, JB hadn't wrestled free in 5 or 6 years before he went in and eon a WC. Think about how good JB will be and he's already the best in the world. Dake hasn't even beat guys in the US, like Howe and Paulson. and JB handles those two.

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I had breakfest with a coach at the Ironman last December , he wanted to talk to my friend who was looking for a team from Colorado for a event . This coach says that at the OTC he reffed a full out match between Dake and JB and it was only them and him in the room , 2-1 JB . he then stated that he would never underestimate Dake . Not saying he could beat him now but give it a rest about not standing a chance.

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Burroughs is to international wrestling what Dake is to collegiate wrestling. Both of them might have some close matches, but they always find a way to win. The difference is Burroughs has proven that against the world while Dake has not(as of yet). I could see where a match between them could be close(Burroughs has had some close matches), just don't see Burroughs losing.

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I had breakfest with a coach at the Ironman last December , he wanted to talk to my friend who was looking for a team from Colorado for a event . This coach says that at the OTC he reffed a full out match between Dake and JB and it was only them and him in the room , 2-1 JB . he then stated that he would never underestimate Dake . Not saying he could beat him now but give it a rest about not standing a chance.

 

It is a big jump to go from losing a close match in the training room - to taking someone's world team spot.

 

Not only would Dake have to turn around his loss- close or not it was still a loss - but he would have to do it in actual competition (outside of the room) - and he would have to outplace him as well (which as someone pointed out - would most likely mean beating him again).

 

At this point - I don't think anyone can legitimately see Dake taking Burrough's spot. It's a big jump to make from your story of what happened...

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It has only been a week!! I think we should all have learned not to doubt Kyle Dake. JB is my personal favorite, as I sit here with his 74KG shirt on, but I don't doubt Dake.

 

Been a week since Dake won NCAAs? What does that have to do with anything?

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With the way freestyle is constructed for the most random results, I could see Dake getting a low scoring win under perfect circumstances. But to take a spot from Burroughs you have to have a perfect day and beat him, and then you have to out place him internationally, which likely means beating him again (since he's unlikely to lose to anybody else).

 

I think some of you are delusional. Seriously. If Tsargush and Gadzouri can't beat Burroughs and they are light years better than Dark. What planet do you think Dake has against JB? You realize that JB is only scratching the surface while guys like Dake wrestled FS while still in college, JB hadn't wrestled free in 5 or 6 years before he went in and eon a WC. Think about how good JB will be and he's already the best in the world. Dake hasn't even beat guys in the US, like Howe and Paulson. and JB handles those two.

Delusional? Seriously, that's what you take from my post. I allowed for the tiny chance that Dake could win if circumstances are perfect for him and the randomness of Freestyle breaks his way. Then I pointed out that such a miracle would still leave him on the outside because he'd have to THEN outplace him (and likely beat him again).

 

Does the mere possibility of a Burroughs loss seriously offend you that much. Freestyle wrestling is purposefully designed for random results. In a sport without stalling is it delusional to think on Dake's best day and Burroughs' worst, that dake couldn't stall his way to the ball grab twice and get lucky each time.

 

That's the whole point of the qualification system, to avoid that kind of randomness eliminating our best guys.

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I could see Dake slowing the match down, but scoring on Burroughs is another matter. There are only a handful of guys in the World that can score on him at all, yet none of them have been able to score more than JB.

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The training room story is dubious as 2-1 is not a freestyle score.

 

But I do think that Dake would have a chance against JB. Is JB really that much better on his feet than Taylor, and Dake equalled Taylor on their feet.

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Just telling what this coach told us , 2-1 is a period score , not a freestyle match score . Didn't Howe take a period from JB at the trials ? All this talk about nobody is even close to him reminds me how everybody on this board said Stieber and Ramos were on a whole different level than the rest of the country . Didn't Ramos barely beat Graff twice this year, people see what they want to see.

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I had breakfest with a coach at the Ironman last December , he wanted to talk to my friend who was looking for a team from Colorado for a event . This coach says that at the OTC he reffed a full out match between Dake and JB and it was only them and him in the room , 2-1 JB . he then stated that he would never underestimate Dake . Not saying he could beat him now but give it a rest about not standing a chance.

 

That is total BS, no way that happened.

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I believe JB will beat him the next couple years... However, who would've thought JB would be where hes at right now two years ago? Point is that counting out guys like Dake, or Taylor for that matter, is tough to do with accuracy. One thing is for sure===the US will be deep at 163 in the next couple years!

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... However, who would've thought JB would be where hes at right now two years ago?

The answer is nobody. Everyone knew Burroughs was good, but back in early April of 2011, most posters knowledgable about freestyle predicted that Burroughs would be tested at the US Open against guys like Paulson, Marable, maybe even Howe (although we knew he had already beaten Howe in folk). But even after he won the US Open, he didn't look that good at freestyle at that tournament, getting scored on by several guys and even dropping a few periods I believe. So everyone assumed he would get destroyed by Tsargush, as well as some other of the better international guys. Then he blows us away and he's undefeated at the senior level and on track to be a John Smith.

 

So you're right. You can never really predict these things. A safe bet is that Dake will be destroyed by Burroughs, but in a year or two from now, who knows. Kenny Monday finally surpassed Dave Schultz, after getting his ass handed to him for years. And just last year at this time many people had David Taylor beating Dake, and never would have believed that Dake would have a 4-0 record (3-0 in NCAA) against Taylor.

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It as absolutely false to say no one knew and compare it to Dake. We know what Dake can do right now in FS we've seen it, JB on the other hand hadn't wrestled free since the middle of HS some 5 years earlier. Finally, if you understand FS, technique is far more important than simply will to win, it's why Metcalf who has superb technique and drive at the college level has not thus far translated nearly as well to the international game. JB blast double was unstoppable in there is no similar move that JB has, JB was easily the best guy in his feet in the country again Dake not so.

 

I'm saying Dake will not beat Burroughs because JB ceiling is higher but more importantly, what JB was great at translated very well to the international game. JS had a neatly unstoppable low single and ankle pick, being as I don't see any technique that Dake has mastered to that level. Right now, I don't see the same quick transition, not to say he can not develop this, I'm just talking right now. It's same reason why Cael didn't have an immediate transition, while most IS technique is sloppy at international level its not, and you can at just be good but be great at something to win.

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