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Plasmodium

JB and DT moved to Lincoln.....

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8 minutes ago, pa in taiwan said:

Burroughs can no longer make 74 kg and be effective and dominant on the mat. Not with the current weigh-in rules. I think Dake takes him easily, but the fact that Dake will have to wrestle a tournament just to get to Burroughs should even things out.

Not an entire tournament. His first match is the semis, and then he wrestles JB the next day. That won't be a factor like it was in the past. If DT can't beat JB easily at 189, nobody in the world beats JB easily at 163.

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17 minutes ago, wrestlingnerd said:

Not an entire tournament. His first match is the semis, and then he wrestles JB the next day. That won't be a factor like it was in the past. If DT can't beat JB easily at 189, nobody in the world beats JB easily at 163.

Thanks for the clarification. I guess that the World Championship at 79kg gives Dake a bye to the semis. And I agree with you; I misspoke, as I don't think Dake will beat JB easily, but I still feel that Dake will beat him. I don't think Taylor brought his best to this match; he should have racked up more points, and we know that when he lets fly, he scores in bunches. He made a serious mistake: leaving JB in striking distance. He should have tried to go into the final minute with a 5 point lead. I agree with Vakattack that Taylor wrestled a tentative match, and that's not a good approach for David. He wrestles his best when he wrestles full out and tries to score as many points as possible. As for JB, I wish that 79kg were an Olympic weight, because at this point I think that is the weight where Jordan could still perform at his best. 74kg with the current weigh-ins saps too much of his strength and endurance. 

 

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1 hour ago, headshuck said:

I don’t think I’ve ever seen JB give up a TD like before. Looked almost fake.

Looks like his right foot slipped on the mat causing him to collapse.  Did someone forget to clean up a spot of J’den’s sweat after the previous match?

 

The match was basically a lots of push outs (hop outs) and somewhat of a slip induced takedown.  It didn’t show much to go forward on from either of them. Maybe that DT had some decent hand fighting to limit JBs attacks and it also helped him get in good on a single leg a few times. Although JB keep it to a stalemate. And JB may be ok in a one off 86kg match but may feel the attrition of dealing with it for a world/Olympic level tournament.  

Edited by MadMardigain

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3 hours ago, Le duke said:

Kind of surprised by that third point for JB. Replay right after the match showed DT with his knees on the mat when the push out occurred.

Just a little rules insight because the "grounded in the edge" can be so nebulous.

DT made this one easy on the refs.  This was called a caution and 1.  It was the observation of the officiating team that Taylor left the wrestling area voluntarily, thus rendering whether or not he was grounded irrelevant.

Without the caution I can also entertain that, since the sequence began standing, a step out could be awarded regardless of whether David's defense brought him to his knees.

Nonetheles, I think most will agree that JB was deserving of a point at the conclusion of that exchange regardless of which interpretation you choose.

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3 hours ago, NJDan said:

Yeah, but JB was coming in extra fat. DT had to cut to make weight (I am guessing).

 

Yep.  What they weighed in at today has got to be far less relevant than their weight classes, which are 25 pounds apart. 

Taylor is carrying around a ton more muscle than Burroughs.  The eye test made that clear. 

Put another way, compare what Taylor looks like today as a full 86 kg'er to tour memory of him as a 165 lb collegian/74 kg freestyler. Could that second guy have had a chance against that first guy or would he get thrown around the mat?

Given that advantage, not a tremendous result to win 4-4 with the only takedown being literally a gimme.   But I do agree with Taylor's point about his finding a way to win being extremely important.  He has already shown that he is a buzzsaw against guys his weight -- his Worlds dominance, the destruction of MyMar. A somewhat flat performance today -- but he won, and JB couldn't flip the switch like he always does against U.S. competition. Compare today's second period to what he did to Zahid. Taylor is a much more formidable guy than he used to be.

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8 hours ago, LJB said:

after seeing what DT did to MM this summer it is hard to argue he was not all up in his own head for this match... he was doing everything he could not to lose this match... im not sure i blame him...

Did you see his match with Dean?  

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9 hours ago, pa in taiwan said:

Burroughs can no longer make 74 kg and be effective and dominant on the mat. Not with the current weigh-in rules. I think Dake takes him easily, but the fact that Dake will have to wrestle a tournament just to get to Burroughs should even things out.

Have you seen Dake at 74kg for several hours after weigh ins?

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7 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

Do tell.  What happens in the wake of a high latitude beef tartare gorging?

Take a look at his Pellicone scores! Not a lot of scoring until the finals.  He was fantastic in the finals however.

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7 hours ago, stp said:

Criteria wins are weird.

So he won by technical criteria or did he technically win by criteria, am assuming thats what all those predicting win by technical were talking about?   ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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9 hours ago, MadMardigain said:

Looks like his right foot slipped on the mat causing him to collapse.  Did someone forget to clean up a spot of J’den’s sweat after the previous match?

 

The match was basically a lots of push outs (hop outs) and somewhat of a slip induced takedown.  It didn’t show much to go forward on from either of them. Maybe that DT had some decent hand fighting to limit JBs attacks and it also helped him get in good on a single leg a few times. Although JB keep it to a stalemate. And JB may be ok in a one off 86kg match but may feel the attrition of dealing with it for a world/Olympic level tournament.  

it did show that DT looks huge compared to JB and prob no chance of JB at his age and frame size to bulk up to that weight

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So is it that DT is so much better than JB, but barely won because he was timid, yet much bigger, JB didn't wrestle a good match, DT didn't wrestle up to his abilities, DT ran the second half of the match, there was a fluke takedown, yet DT is the only one who scored a takedown....hmmmm....what else??  <eye roll>

Back to reality...two amazing world champs went at it and it came down to criteria.  It is amazing that they made this happen for us fans, especially at this time given the stupid pandemic.  No one knows what would happen in a real match since they more than likely will never be at the same weight again for an actual competition that means something other then entertainment and pride.  JB has beaten DT EVERY SINGLE TIME they wrestled when it "mattered".  Doesn't take anything away from DT, he will still go down as an all time great; however, it could be argued that JB is the greatest's of all time.

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In his best matches at the world level, DT has been down early, then turns it on.

He was never in much danger until the very end with JB and Gabe Dean.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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it did show that DT looks huge compared to JB and prob no chance of JB at his age and frame size to bulk up to that weight
I find it easier to bulk with each year that passes. In fact, it happens without much effort at all.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

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13 minutes ago, Crotalus said:

I find it easier to bulk with each year that passes. In fact, it happens without much effort at all.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

good point and it seems as aging goes on one eventually starts losing height while gaining girth, not sure but projecting out over time one perhaps becomes like a bowling ball, wrestling an 86kg 5x World Champ bowling ball would be difficult  ;)

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15 minutes ago, LJB said:

i did not and to be honest, had completely forgot it even happened...

Check it out when you have a sec. I don’t think It was a head thing in that match. He damn near lost that match.  His gas tank just isn’t the same right now. 

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1 minute ago, AnklePicker said:

Check it out when you have a sec. I don’t think It was a head thing in that match. He damn near lost that match.  His gas tank just isn’t the same right now. 

the lungs are directly connected to the heart...

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Enjoying the conversation.  For my part this was a weird one. It was ultimately an exhibition match. But it was also tel guys who didn’t want to lose. Not there. Not ever. But still ... it wasn’t the Olympic trials, it wasn’t the Olympics. The only thing on the line was ego. That means a lot but does it mean a lot to try to skew training to peak for this one match event? We also don’t have any idea how hard they were training versus how hard they will train from now till the trials. If one was farther along than the other then that itself could make a lot of difference. 

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12 hours ago, wrestlingnerd said:

Not an entire tournament. His first match is the semis, and then he wrestles JB the next day. That won't be a factor like it was in the past. If DT can't beat JB easily at 189, nobody in the world beats JB easily at 163.

"Easily"? it was 4-4.

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