Is 2013 Taylor the best ever non-champion?

[superold 34]

Come on, never did I say Fried was better than Pat Smith. My point was that a 134 lber beat a 150 lber and one of the three best college wrestlers ever wrestling 149.5 freestyle while being close to 136.5, and that is a fact in support of how great Fried was, nothing more. The team mate argument is fair but works both ways too.

 

Good point, that makes a lot of sense. Imo, I think a great many wrestlers would have beat Pat that day, even non all-time greats who had the right attitude. Also, it doesn't matter to me if you say one Okie was better than another. All the same to me :D .

[KTG119 820]

In '92 Sylvester Terkay from NC St pinned his 1st 4 opponents, each in less than 2 minutes, before losing to Kurt Angle in the finals 3-2. Not sure on what he did in regular season but that's not a bad tourney run.

 

Ed Banach as runner-up his junior years wasn't bad either. In addition to the epic match vs Schultz in finals, on his way there he had 3 pins and a 17-5 win.

 

Kolat as a soph wasn't bad either. Unbeaten until NCAAs, with 3 wins over defending and eventual 3 timer TJ Jaworsky before being upset in semis by Mohamadi.

[tec87 349]

Metcalf as a junior.

 

Not a bad choice.

[fullnelson 130]

Howe defeated taylor easily during the trials last summer, I believe he defeated Dake as well, just too powerful for taylor, so taylor welcomes his move up a weight class.

[BigApple 86]

Kenny Monday losing to Nate Carr

[Jefe 8]

Wade Schalles lost a postseason (I think his SR year) because the NCAA transfer rules at the time were far too strict. (Had spent one day on campus at East Stroudsburg his FR year before transferring to Clarion.)

[support wrestling 0]

Kolat and Mac come to mind. I do think Hendricks is way up there too. IF hed have wrestled freestyle longer vs. MMA, he'd be viewed differently. For example, from what I remember neither of the Paulsens really ever pushed him. I enjoyed reading some of the other, and yes Kenny Monday losing to Carr is tough to beat!

[smittyfan 42]

Steven Schmidt, Mark Branch, Kenny Monday, there is a pretty impressive list of great wrestlers that fell short, but Taylor is right there with the best of them imo.

[WRfan1 152]

Sheets and Monday in 1982. Maybe Banach too.

[rstrong 75]

So - to answer the original question. No, not the best ever.

 

But very good and in the conversation.

[PA-Fan 0]

Howe defeated taylor easily during the trials last summer, I believe he defeated Dake as well, just too powerful for taylor, so taylor welcomes his move up a weight class.

 

Dake also defeated Taylor easily at the trials. We saw how directly that translated to folkstyle...you know because Dake blew Taylor out in folk... :roll:

 

I'm sure Taylor is not sweating Howe being at his weight class - especially not because he lost to him in freestyle.

[ancient_history 0]

Johnny Thompson anyone?

[OCGrappler 44]

If you look at Win-Loss and dominance over a 2 year span, the only non-champ in Taylor's neighborhood is going to be Gable. And of course, Larry Owings is no kyle Dake...by a long shot.

[ancient_history 0]

If you look at Win-Loss and dominance over a 2 year span, the only non-champ in Taylor's neighborhood is going to be Gable. And of course, Larry Owings is no kyle Dake...by a long shot.

But I doubt anyone thinks that Owings would have beaten Gable 4 out of 4 times either.

[dsnc471 25]

Scott Moore of Virginia in 2004 was pretty damn impressive. I can't access the bracket right now, as my computer won't load it, but I remember that he had a lot of pins against top notch opponents.

 

Stuck Nate Gallick and Jason Mester both in the first period.

 

I also believe that Moore had the most matches ever wrestled in a collegiate season. I think that the record still stands. Something close to 60 matches that year.

Scott Moore's record in 2004 was 51-1 with 34 falls. Pretty ridiculous. Had he not lost at NCAAs and taken 3rd he probably would have won the Hodge. Who could compete with 34 falls? I remember watching him throw guys around like pieces of garbage at tournaments. Right off the opening whistle he would be looking to lock up a headlock, or some unorthodox throw that would result in a pin, even against quality opponents.

[tec87 349]

Metcalf as a junior.

 

38-1 with 20 falls, 8 techs, and 6 majors.

4 Decisions (9-5 Brown, 12-7 Hickman, 9-4 Brown,6-2 Palmer). 1 Decision loss 11-6 Caldwell

 

1 pin and 2 majors over 3rd place finisher Ruschell.

6-2 over 4th place finisher Palmer.

1 major over 5th place finisher Patacsil.

1 pin over 8th place finisher Barnes.

1 major over rd of 12 Terry

2 decions over rd of 12 Brown(the only guy to keep him to a decision twice that year)

1 tech over rd of 12 Mueller

 

(1 tech fall over Champion Caldwell)

[BigRedMachine 210]

If you look at Win-Loss and dominance over a 2 year span, the only non-champ in Taylor's neighborhood is going to be Gable. And of course, Larry Owings is no kyle Dake...by a long shot.

But I doubt anyone thinks that Owings would have beaten Gable 4 out of 4 times either.

But I guess the better question is could Dake take 4 of 4 from Gable? Or could Owings take 1 from Taylor?

[Frank_Rizzo 336]

2005 Troy Lettrs. 27-1 with 19 bonus point wins. Two wins over Churella, one of which was a major. Two wins over Hendricks. Lost a very controversial bout against Mark Perry in the semis and went on to finish third.

[Alexander_Delarge_655321 63]

Bryan Synder, Nebraska, one of the best 2 time runner ups. Lost 2 times in the finals in OT.

[HurricaneWrestling 1,123]

Lee Kemp - freshman year - 4-4, 1-1 split referee's decision loss in NCAA finals to Yagla

 

Kemp never lost a college match afterwards.

[acadia 0]

Metcalf as a junior.

 

38-1 with 20 falls, 8 techs, and 6 majors.

4 Decisions (9-5 Brown, 12-7 Hickman, 9-4 Brown,6-2 Palmer). 1 Decision loss 11-6 Caldwell

 

1 pin and 2 majors over 3rd place finisher Ruschell.

6-2 over 4th place finisher Palmer.

1 major over 5th place finisher Patacsil.

1 pin over 8th place finisher Barnes.

1 major over rd of 12 Terry

2 decions over rd of 12 Brown(the only guy to keep him to a decision twice that year)

1 tech over rd of 12 Mueller

 

(1 tech fall over Champion Caldwell)

 

Oh come on the tech against Caldwell doesn't even count on official ncaa record, it was am exhibition alk star match, remember Caldwell is officially 2-0 vs Metcalf, one won by 1:32 second pin, and a 11-6 victory in NCAA finals. But I agree Metcalf season was dominate against everyone but Caldwell, ironically if Caldwell doesn't get hurt Metcalf IMHO us only ever a 1 timer, us Olympic was looking pretty sweet with a future JB and DC, but nothing in life us guaranteed.

[ancient_history 0]

2005 Troy Lettrs. 27-1 with 19 bonus point wins. Two wins over Churella, one of which was a major. Two wins over Hendricks. Lost a very controversial bout against Mark Perry in the semis and went on to finish third.

What was controversial about that match?

[jpizar83 0]

What about Greg Jones as a sophomore? Was undefeated all year and then goes 0-2 at NCAAs. The next two years he goes undefeated to be a 3x champ.

[lowrider 8]

2005 Troy Lettrs. 27-1 with 19 bonus point wins. Two wins over Churella, one of which was a major. Two wins over Hendricks. Lost a very controversial bout against Mark Perry in the semis and went on to finish third.

What was controversial about that match?

 

 

The only thing that might have been controversial was in the 2nd period. Perry had turned Letters for 3 in the same sequance it looked like Letters may have had a reversal and back points. It was an iffy call.

 

 

Here is the match.

[dsnc471 25]

 

The only thing that might have been controversial was in the 2nd period. Perry had turned Letters for 3 in the same sequance it looked like Letters may have had a reversal and back points. It was an iffy call.

 

 

Here is the match.

Been a long time since I've watched that match. Unbelievable job by Perry in the second period with that ride and turn, but that was definitely an interesting sequence when Perry was lying on his back. I wouldn't say the official made any bad calls, but something needs to be addressed in the rules concerning "control", because there's no way Perry should be able to lie flat on his back, with Letters on top, for 5-10 seconds and not be penalized. If Letters had been on top in that sequence he would have had 3 NF and the ref would have been looking for the pin. Also, Perry looked like a douche sticking his tongue out and acting like an idiot (all while stalling on bottom) with 15 seconds to go in the match. But, douchebag or not, he wrestled a great match.