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Shiraz123

Olympics cancelled?

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I wonder how Kyle Dake feels about vaccinations?

I can’t remember the term from my sports psych classes when elite athletes wrongly attribute their success to woowoo nonsense and superstition but it is extremely common and Dake is a prime example.


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3 hours ago, IronChef said:


This year will be the fourth time Japan has hosted the Olympics.

Yes. I’ve been to Japan. Not very open to foreigners. For sure, the typical Japanese citizen has little interest in the Olympic Games unless the stand to profit. Throw in Covid, forget the Games. 

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1 hour ago, GoNotQuietly said:

Now, the question of what is or is not “worth it” isn’t a scientific one necessarily, but the idea that if someone doesn’t die it’s all gravy, even if they can’t breathe for two weeks and have permanently scarred organs, seems misguided.
 

Well sure ... but just getting to watch the Olympics will "lift us up out of the doldrums" and we then won't even care that we have long term heart and lung damage.  ;_;

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I have no idea whether the games will be cancelled-- a friend from Japan who is knowledgable about such things is sure they will be-- but I put little stock in denials. Everyone involved MUST deny cancellation rumors right up to the minute the cancellation actually happens.

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42 minutes ago, NJDan said:

I have no idea whether the games will be cancelled-- a friend from Japan who is knowledgable about such things is sure they will be-- but I put little stock in denials. Everyone involved MUST deny cancellation rumors right up to the minute the cancellation actually happens.

I think an equally valid question instead of just "will they be cancelled' is "if they happen will they be in Japan".    I'd have to think there's some country out there with most of the infrastructure already in place that would take them.

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45 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I think an equally valid question instead of just "will they be cancelled' is "if they happen will they be in Japan".    I'd have to think there's some country out there with most of the infrastructure already in place that would take them.

Seems like all countries, no matter how advanced, build a lot of facilities for the games. Maybe whoever had the games last could step in. But all countries have a Covid-19 problem.

 

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20 hours ago, gowrestle said:

Yes. I’ve been to Japan. Not very open to foreigners. 

Have been as well and have to say my experience was exact opposite. One of my biggest take aways was the level of hospitality that just seemed imbedded in the culture. 

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22 hours ago, nom said:

This is a world unifying event.  Something to lift us up out of the doldrums.  Something to cheer about.  Something to rally around.

I’m sure that 50k or so vaccines could be prioritized by June for the athletes and some limited support staff.  Heck, make it 75k or 100k given support staff and 2 doses per person.

In theory I agree with this, along with a lot of what lu is saying. However, the reality of that is that would mean the IOC mandating to 200 different sovereign nations what (even a part of) they need to do with their vaccination program. I just can’t see anyway that happening across the board. Russia, USA, and some other nations the Games will be a priority. But some of these really hard hit countries: Brazil, Italy, Spain....I just don’t see the Games being a high priority for their own vaccination program. IOC can try influence, but at the end of the day the people who make those decisions in their nations have people to answer to. 

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29 minutes ago, Lurker said:

In theory I agree with this, along with a lot of what lu is saying. However, the reality of that is that would mean the IOC mandating to 200 different sovereign nations what (even a part of) they need to do with their vaccination program. I just can’t see anyway that happening across the board. Russia, USA, and some other nations the Games will be a priority. But some of these really hard hit countries: Brazil, Italy, Spain....I just don’t see the Games being a high priority for their own vaccination program. IOC can try influence, but at the end of the day the people who make those decisions in their nations have people to answer to. 

Just wear your masks and this will all be over in 100 days.  ;_;

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Lurker - it is a fair point.  I would suggest that for many countries they will be providing vaccines deep into the population by June / July.  And for the poorer countries, their Olympic contingent isn’t all that big.  And I would say that the idea of giving 300 vaccine doses to an athletic program in order for the country to see their folks compete and would be a not so hard choice.  Easy for me to say I know.  Just seems like a good global cause to help address some of the mental aspects of this damn bug.  
 

Admittedly, some may not get the vaccine in time. I would say that if this is what it takes to make the Olympics happen, that is ok.

 

Wonder if can delay the games to Sept to give that bit of extra time for vaccines to get out there.

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5 minutes ago, nom said:

Lurker - it is a fair point.  I would suggest that for many countries they will be providing vaccines deep into the population by June / July.  And for the poorer countries, their Olympic contingent isn’t all that big.  And I would say that the idea of giving 300 vaccine doses to an athletic program in order for the country to see their folks compete and would be a not so hard choice.  Easy for me to say I know.  Just seems like a good global cause to help address some of the mental aspects of this damn bug.  
 

Admittedly, some may not get the vaccine in time. I would say that if this is what it takes to make the Olympics happen, that is ok.

 

Wonder if can delay the games to Sept to give that bit of extra time for vaccines to get out there.

Did you consider everything that goes into determining who is on each country's teams?  Qualification competitions, training camps, etc.  Each of these has to be able to be put on in safety, and they don't just happen a couple of weeks prior to the Games themselves.

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21 hours ago, GoNotQuietly said:


I fear getting into this here, but the short answer is no, it’s not enough to just get the vulnerable vaccinated.

Couple reasons:
1) a lot of the most vulnerable, such as people with chronic and immunocompromised, can’t be vaccinated.
2) we are obviously trying to avoid deaths, but Covid has been shown to cause lasting damage to multiple organ systems, especially heart and lungs, even in the most elite athletes. Long term individual and social cost is extremely high.
3) more cases -> more chances for mutations -> potentially less effective vaccines and treatments -> longer pandemic.

Now, the question of what is or is not “worth it” isn’t a scientific one necessarily, but the idea that if someone doesn’t die it’s all gravy, even if they can’t breathe for two weeks and have permanently scarred organs, seems misguided.


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1.  Please explain this open ended non-focused statement.  It is equivalent of me saying a lot of people can't run fast.

2.  Have you looked at the data to this?  Long term effect?  IF you have "long term" effects, most lingering issues are resolved after 21 days (see CDC and WHO websites, I looked at both)...which is exactly identical to the SARS outbreak in 2003 (see WHO website)...don't remember shutting down the whole world than??!!  And please define/explain "long term individual and social costs is extremely high"...again, I could say the exact same thing in regards to why the Olympics SHOULD happen.  90%+ people I know have all gotten COVID...there are ZERO who have had any lingering effects after 3 weeks (some were really sick (my dad and a neighbor), some had hardly anything (like me, my son, and my sig other), but none had long term effects from damaged multiple organ systems.

3.  So many things wrong with this but I will start with...what is the end game then?  When is it okay for some normalcy??  Zero transmissions?  The virus magically disappears?  We have a vaccine for every possible mutation that will ever occur now and in the future?

Using your logic and fear mongering ("but the idea that if someone doesn’t die it’s all gravy, even if they can’t breathe for two weeks and have permanently scarred organs, seems misguided") we will NEVER go back to "normal"  We will always have to wear masks (which is interesting when you look at the nazi states like California compared to a logical state like Iowa...yes I said Iowa was a logical state but that discussion is for another time :) ).  I always ask this of the fear mongering emotional people in regards to this and they can NEVER answer it...when will it be "Okay" to do things again than?  Be specific and not these open ended overly emotional illogical statements like "When no one else dies!!"  

Some of you need to turn off the local news/CNN/MSNBC and put down the local newspaper and do some of your own research.  Quite ruining opportunities for people because of something that you have completely and utter control over if you never wanted to get the virus.

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56 minutes ago, dman115 said:

1.  Please explain this open ended non-focused statement.  It is equivalent of me saying a lot of people can't run fast.

2.  Have you looked at the data to this?  Long term effect?  IF you have "long term" effects, most lingering issues are resolved after 21 days (see CDC and WHO websites, I looked at both)...which is exactly identical to the SARS outbreak in 2003 (see WHO website)...don't remember shutting down the whole world than??!!  And please define/explain "long term individual and social costs is extremely high"...again, I could say the exact same thing in regards to why the Olympics SHOULD happen.  90%+ people I know have all gotten COVID...there are ZERO who have had any lingering effects after 3 weeks (some were really sick (my dad and a neighbor), some had hardly anything (like me, my son, and my sig other), but none had long term effects from damaged multiple organ systems.

3.  So many things wrong with this but I will start with...what is the end game then?  When is it okay for some normalcy??  Zero transmissions?  The virus magically disappears?  We have a vaccine for every possible mutation that will ever occur now and in the future?

Using your logic and fear mongering ("but the idea that if someone doesn’t die it’s all gravy, even if they can’t breathe for two weeks and have permanently scarred organs, seems misguided") we will NEVER go back to "normal"  We will always have to wear masks (which is interesting when you look at the nazi states like California compared to a logical state like Iowa...yes I said Iowa was a logical state but that discussion is for another time :) ).  I always ask this of the fear mongering emotional people in regards to this and they can NEVER answer it...when will it be "Okay" to do things again than?  Be specific and not these open ended overly emotional illogical statements like "When no one else dies!!"  

Some of you need to turn off the local news/CNN/MSNBC and put down the local newspaper and do some of your own research.  Quite ruining opportunities for people because of something that you have completely and utter control over if you never wanted to get the virus.

The really smart people that work on this stuff 15-20 hours a day believe the “end game” (for lack of a better term) is about 80% vaccinated. 
 

Operating at either ends of the extreme, whether it be total shut downs; or live free and take your chances, are both very dangerous. Keep going, but take the most basic precautions in everything you do. My opinion is that is not that difficult at all for each individual to do, and our best way through this. Instead of all the arguing back and forth by millions of people who know next to nothing about this stuff. 

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I don’t watch cable news, but if you want better resources for the epidemiological and public health components of the pandemic, I would highly recommend:

This Week in Virology podcast,
https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/

STAT scientific news,
https://www.statnews.com/

and the American Medical Association Q&As https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/pages/covid-19-interviews

I’m sorry I don’t have time to respond to you thoroughly, I manufacture Covid medicine for a living so you can imagine we are pretty busy, but wrestling forums probably aren’t the best way to convince people on science topics anyway. Have a good one and sincerely happy to hear you and your family have recovered well.


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4 hours ago, klehner said:

Did you consider everything that goes into determining who is on each country's teams?  Qualification competitions, training camps, etc.  Each of these has to be able to be put on in safety, and they don't just happen a couple of weeks prior to the Games themselves.

No.  But now that I am considering it, not much of an issue.  If country can’t make it work for them, they don’t go.  That said, I bet the vast majority can make it work.  Lots of athletic competitions are occurring all over the world.  Isn’t all that hard to do IMHO.  Much of it is outdoors.  If not outdoors can be done in large very well ventilated spaces.  
 


 

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16 hours ago, Lurker said:

Have been as well and have to say my experience was exact opposite. One of my biggest take aways was the level of hospitality that just seemed imbedded in the culture. 

My experience is much more inline with yours. The Japanese culture in general is more reserved but that doesn't mean less friendly. 

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23 hours ago, GoNotQuietly said:

I don’t watch cable news, but if you want better resources for the epidemiological and public health components of the pandemic, I would highly recommend:

This Week in Virology podcast,
https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/

STAT scientific news,
https://www.statnews.com/

and the American Medical Association Q&As https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/pages/covid-19-interviews

I’m sorry I don’t have time to respond to you thoroughly, I manufacture Covid medicine for a living so you can imagine we are pretty busy, but wrestling forums probably aren’t the best way to convince people on science topics anyway. Have a good one and sincerely happy to hear you and your family have recovered well.


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Fair enough.  Thank you for the kind words. 

I just get really frustrated at the completely illogical decisions people make in regards to the virus.  I know it is a deadly bug and precautions should be taken especially for those in a certain demographic, but all one has to do is watch a college wrestling dual to get a first hand look at the ideocracy of "precautions" someone in power implemented...two people spend 7 minutes mauling each other, breathing and sweating all over each other, but DO NOT shake hands afterwards as that could spread the virus.  Unbelievable.....

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1 hour ago, dman115 said:

Fair enough.  Thank you for the kind words. 

I just get really frustrated at the completely illogical decisions people make in regards to the virus.  I know it is a deadly bug and precautions should be taken especially for those in a certain demographic, but all one has to do is watch a college wrestling dual to get a first hand look at the ideocracy of "precautions" someone in power implemented...two people spend 7 minutes mauling each other, breathing and sweating all over each other, but DO NOT shake hands afterwards as that could spread the virus.  Unbelievable.....

I can answer to that as I’ve been involved with developing protocols for return to competition. And it does seem silly, but the reasoning is not at all “you’re not going to catch it during the match but you might with the handshakes”. It’s one of the first steps you take in planning these returns, where can we minimize contacts as much as possible? What are the contacts that have to happen in order for the competition to take place? What are the contacts that have no bearing on the competition? Again, it’s not about operating at either ends of the extreme. It’s about what can we do to mitigate the opportunity for the virus to spread. Handshakes, Jersey swaps, etc have no bearing on the competition, so eliminate those contacts, regardless of how silly they may seem. It’s part of a bigger picture. 

Edited by Lurker

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