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9 minutes ago, Schuteandscore said:

Lol, not Bratke, but that’s funny.  I was honestly just curious because to say someone is “hands down the worst,” I think should be explained lol

His body of work is pretty much out there.

If anybody wishes to counter it, they can.

My one counter is that if folks think it is easy, then do it.  Pretty sure Spey has also said as much and not one person has accepted his challenge and put forth weekly rankings for an entire season for comparison purposes.

Folks are just stupid and don't understand that the word 'rankings' and 'predictions' are very different words.

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39 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

His body of work is pretty much out there.

If anybody wishes to counter it, they can.

My one counter is that if folks think it is easy, then do it.  Pretty sure Spey has also said as much and not one person has accepted his challenge and put forth weekly rankings for an entire season for comparison purposes.

Folks are just stupid and don't understand that the word 'rankings' and 'predictions' are very different words.

I absolutely agree, that was why I asked

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15 hours ago, nhs67 said:

1-Spencer Lee

2-Nick Lee

3-Sebastian Rivera

Eierman and Desanto both make massive cuts and are both the consensus #1s at 125 and 133, respectively, now.

#3 Rivera dominates #4 Parker Filius of perennial power Purdue en route to a 7-6 decision.

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2 minutes ago, Housebuye said:

Go ahead and make 1 set on rankings. Just 1. Then we can compare. 

He won't.

I myself wouldn't mind collaborating with a bunch of folks here.  See what we could come up with.

Do it similar to the coaches poll.  Rank the top 10.  #1 gets 10 points all the way down.  Could do 15, 20, or 25 as well.

We can call them TheMat KW Rankings.

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9 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

He won't.

I myself wouldn't mind collaborating with a bunch of folks here.  See what we could come up with.

Do it similar to the coaches poll.  Rank the top 10.  #1 gets 10 points all the way down.  Could do 15, 20, or 25 as well.

We can call them TheMat KW Rankings.

KW?  Keyboard Warriors? Lol

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Just now, Schuteandscore said:

KW?  Keyboard Warriors? Lol

No. KW means Keyboard Warrior, not Keyboard Warriors.

TheMat Keyboard Warrior Rankings.

Get SHP's blessing and we can call them The Official TheMat Keyboard Warrior Rankings.

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2 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

No. KW means Keyboard Warrior, not Keyboard Warriors.

TheMat Keyboard Warrior Rankings.

Get SHP's blessing and we can call them The Official TheMat Keyboard Warrior Rankings.

Ahhh sorry about the s, totally off.  I was thinking you were saying there were more than one ranker, sorry for the plural.  I see now.  Gotta make sure the title is correct in the proposal.

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4 minutes ago, Schuteandscore said:

Ahhh sorry about the s, totally off.  I was thinking you were saying there were more than one ranker, sorry for the plural.  I see now.  Gotta make sure the title is correct in the proposal.

Yeah, I was a bit confused by that one too. Especially given this sentence.

21 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

I myself wouldn't mind collaborating with a bunch of folks here.

 

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41 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

He won't.

I myself wouldn't mind collaborating with a bunch of folks here.  See what we could come up with.

Do it similar to the coaches poll.  Rank the top 10.  #1 gets 10 points all the way down.  Could do 15, 20, or 25 as well.

We can call them TheMat KW Rankings.

I’d be down to try that. Maybe after the regular season, during the break before conferences? 
  
What would the rules be? Just rank however we see fit? Does it need to be based on previous results, or is it more of a prediction? 

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55 minutes ago, Housebuye said:

Go ahead and make 1 set on rankings. Just 1. Then we can compare. 

 

50 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

He won't.

I myself wouldn't mind collaborating with a bunch of folks here.  See what we could come up with.

Do it similar to the coaches poll.  Rank the top 10.  #1 gets 10 points all the way down.  Could do 15, 20, or 25 as well.

We can call them TheMat KW Rankings.

I'll see if I can find the time to do it.  But I stand by my statement.  Spey and his ranking buddies at Flo are hands down the worst when it comes to college wrestling rankings.  This is common knowledge.  I don't know why you guys are defending him and Flo unless you guys are CP and Bratke.

Edited by portajohn

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Just now, portajohn said:

 

I'll see if I can find the time to do it.  But I stand by my statement.  Spey and his ranking buddies at Flo are hands down the worst when it comes to college wrestling rankings.  This is common knowledge.

I’m still just curious why?

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I'll see if I can find the time to do it.  But I stand by my statement.  Spey and his ranking buddies at Flo are hands down the worst when it comes to college wrestling rankings.  This is common knowledge.
Nah. They're fine.

Personally I appreciate them the most because they give their logic. In the end I don't value rankings by anybody since their primary value is for discussion by fans.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

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4 minutes ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

that's why i keep coming back here. for the ego check. thank you, anonymous message board toilet, for saying i suck and keeping me humble. 

I actually keep questioning it because you don’t suck.  I appreciate the rankings, and the explanation of where each wrestler fits.  There is evidence.  If someone is going to make a claim of it being the worst, an explanation and evidence should be there.  Keep on keepin on

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2 hours ago, VakAttack said:

Nah. They're fine.

Personally I appreciate them the most because they give their logic. In the end I don't value rankings by anybody since their primary value is for discussion by fans.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 

I'm with you on this. And I will go a step further. 

It is because Flo shares their logic that everyone who likes to argue, will argue. Personally,  I have expressed areas where I think they don't follow their professed logic. That is my problem. I just can't leave it alone.

But as for the results of their logic? Yeah, sure, why not. Good fodder, gets them clicks (mine included), and is normally of no import. After all we achieve simplification eventually. 2020 excepted.

Now that I type that last sentence, it gets me thinking. To the extent that their, or anyone else's, ranks impact the thinking of coaches who then impact the seeding of wrestlers at conference tourneys and the NCAAs, they matter. Marginally. And in a year where seedings determined All American status, their import probably peaked. 

Let's hope they are meaningless again this year.

And let's hope someone takes exception to something I wrote and wants to argue.

Edited by Wrestleknownothing

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On 1/28/2021 at 8:07 PM, Jaroslav Hasek said:

unless you start taking freestyle results into account for NCAA ranking, which even with covid I don't think makes sense, I don't see the justification for Lee above Eierman. I do see putting Eierman ahead of Rivera tho. Rivera is up at a weight class where he's never wrestled before this year and Eierman has a proven track record at 141.

There are many ways to look at it but a big part of the reason why Flo came to the conclusion that Rivera should start at #1 and Eierman #2 is that Rivera has wins over Gross and RBY from Big Tens of 2020. Eierman didn't wrestle folkstyle in 2019-20 but beat Mitch McKee and Dom Demas. Eierman has a win over Yianni in the 2017-18 season. Rivera has two wins over Spencer Lee in the 2018-19 season. 

You can read all that and come to different conclusions. I'm open to arguments from both sides and would be happy to here from all sides.

Also should make note that the rankings Flo for NCAA wrestling are not predictions. Nick Lee might be favored to win against both Eierman and Rivera but would still be ranked below. Not saying he is favored either, just wanted to point that out to avoid that part of the conversation. 

wait Spey are you the one that ranked Rivera #1?

I would say freestyle results against guys in the same weight class (especially if the match was not decided by “freestyle moves”) should bear just as much if not more weight than folkstyle results at a different weight.

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2 hours ago, 1032004 said:

wait Spey are you the one that ranked Rivera #1?

I would say freestyle results against guys in the same weight class (especially if the match was not decided by “freestyle moves”) should bear just as much if not more weight than folkstyle results at a different weight.

can't count freestyle results. especially not only part of the time, which involves a very subjective judgement call as to whether is should count or not. too messy. will lead to way too many inconsistencies. 

the whole point of having a set of ranking rules that you stick to is so that when people see a ranking they don't agree with, they'll know the reason is not just because we just like one team or wrestler more than another. I mean they're still going to say that, but the goal is to be able to refute those accusations with sound logic. that logic will then be completely ignored most of the time but that's all part of the fun.

as others have correctly pointed out, one of the main reasons to spend the time making a set of rankings is to generate conversation by making the sport easier to follow. that will naturally generate disagreements, even occasionally heated ones. I'd prefer lukewarm disagreements but its all way better than no conversation at all. 

and yes, me and Bratke do the rankings. Every setting of rankings on Flo lists the author or authors responsible as well as a way to provide feedback. 

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38 minutes ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

can't count freestyle results. especially not only part of the time, which involves a very subjective judgement call as to whether is should count or not. too messy. will lead to way too many inconsistencies. 

the whole point of having a set of ranking rules that you stick to is so that when people see a ranking they don't agree with, they'll know the reason is not just because we just like one team or wrestler more than another. I mean they're still going to say that, but the goal is to be able to refute those accusations with sound logic. that logic will then be completely ignored most of the time but that's all part of the fun.

as others have correctly pointed out, one of the main reasons to spend the time making a set of rankings is to generate conversation by making the sport easier to follow. that will naturally generate disagreements, even occasionally heated ones. I'd prefer lukewarm disagreements but its all way better than no conversation at all. 

and yes, me and Bratke do the rankings. Every setting of rankings on Flo lists the author or authors responsible as well as a way to provide feedback. 

So is there a “ranking rule” that if you beat former national champions from lower weights, you can be ranked #1 at a higher weight?

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18 hours ago, Housebuye said:

I’d be down to try that. Maybe after the regular season, during the break before conferences? 
  
What would the rules be? Just rank however we see fit? Does it need to be based on previous results, or is it more of a prediction? 

Someone does a predictions one every year.  A pre-NCAA ranking would be legit.  We could even put it up against the rest of them, too.  I inagine as a general group we would find out that we're average at best.

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