Gantry 1,674 Report post Posted February 10 (edited) I saw it, enjoyed quite a bit but didn't answer the question, at least to me. I don't think it's known if they will or will not grant it. Seems like everyone is guessing, but I could and will probably be wrong. Edited February 10 by Gantry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bracketbuster 47 Report post Posted February 10 5 minutes ago, Gantry said: Nobody knows for sure if you don't have 4 matches and you don't win your conference if you'll get an at large if you place high enough. There have been half a dozen conversations about it on these forums. I don't know how you missed them all but it's been a constant discussion and far as I know there's been no final answer. So my question about "confirming the allocations participation" at the conference tournament still stands. But according to the Willie Saylor show/qualifying documents hopefully these answer your questions. I think the show aired Monday that I am aware of so you are not that far behind. Somebody correct me if I misinterpreted this. - If you win the AQ (first place in any conference), you are going to the NCAA Tournament regardless of # of matches. - If you secure a pre-allocated spot (2nd - whatever a conference gives out): You need to have four matches against Division I competition outside of your team at that weight to keep the allocation. The matches in the conference tournament count towards that total (per Willie) so if you enter the conference tournament with 0-3 matches and end up with 4+ matches you can keep the allocation. This really only comes into affect for small tournaments (ACC, PAC 12) as if you enter a bracket with at least 12 people I don't think you can place without wrestling four matches. Real Woods is the only example I can think of if he would enter PAC 12s and get second he would not go to NCAAs. If you do not have 4 matches at weight vs. DI, etc. after your conference tournament and you did not win the conference tournament you are not eligible for at-large. I also add this note which has been mentioned before: "A wrestler who does not compete in his respective conference tournament, MAY still be eligible for an at-large selection. ONLY if he was unable to participate due to COVID related issues, and he was not replaced by a teammate in the conference tournament." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeneParmesan 2 Report post Posted February 10 It is noted very clearly... Perfect example, Real Woods. He has not wrestled this season (not certified yet per Track). IF he certifies and wrestles at Pac-12 Championships, he will enter with a 0-0 record. If he wins the Pac-12 141 bracket, he will have probably have 3 matches but auto-qualify because he won the bracket, regardless of being under the 4 match minimum. If Real Woods takes 2nd, he will not qualify via auto or at-large because he is under 4 matches. If Real Woods takes 3rd or 4th (or 5th/6th for that matter) he could possibly get an At-Large solely on the fact that he wrestled four matches, but if he cant win the 141 bracket I have a better chance of winning the powerball than he does at getting an At-Large 1 Housebuye reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ionel 1,314 Report post Posted February 10 10 minutes ago, Gantry said: Nobody knows for sure if you don't have 4 matches and you don't win your conference if you'll get an at large if you place high enough. There have been half a dozen conversations about it on these forums. I don't know how you missed them all but it's been a constant discussion and far as I know there's been no final answer. Wrestler with less than 4 matches would not be eligible for a pre-allocated spot for their conference, nor would they be considered for at-large selections. A wrestler who wins the conference championship with less than 4 matches may retain that AQ spot. If the second place finisher in a weight class does not have 4 matches, but the third place finisher does have 4 matches, the third place finisher can be awarded the pre-allocated spot, as the second place finisher is not eligible. The pre-allocated spots belong to the respective conferences to award. Pretty sure you won't get an at large but you are probably correct that no one will know for sure until we actually know. The above doesn't tell us what will happen if said wrestler gets 2nd without having 4 matches and the 4th (not the 3rd) or 5th place is the one who does have 4 matches. And the statement is can be awarded (not will) and also indicates the spots belong to the conference. Seems quite a bit of room for the conference to decide they really like this 2nd place (or 3rd ... ) guy and willing to use a pre-allocated for him. But it shouldn't take away any at large spots. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drag it 268 Report post Posted February 10 I didn't hear the episode in question, but the criticism seems legit. The listener has an appropriate expectation that the people on a show like that will know and be able to explain the rules. Their job is wrestling. We up in the back of the peanut gallery have other jobs and we patronize this website to give us good wrestling info and be a reliable resource. On this it sounds like they didn't meet that standard, but Flo is a huge net plus for the sport and FRL is usually a really good listen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gantry 1,674 Report post Posted February 10 (edited) 16 minutes ago, GeneParmesan said: It is noted very clearly... No it isn't at all. Look at the last sentence, that leaves it totally up to interpretation. Plus in their example they say the third place finisher CAN be awarded the pre-allocated spot - they didn't say WILL. If it was noted very clearly why is the last sentence there and why does it say can instead of will? It's completely not clear... Edited February 10 by Gantry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1032004 870 Report post Posted February 10 17 minutes ago, GeneParmesan said: It is noted very clearly... Perfect example, Real Woods. He has not wrestled this season (not certified yet per Track). IF he certifies and wrestles at Pac-12 Championships, he will enter with a 0-0 record. If he wins the Pac-12 141 bracket, he will have probably have 3 matches but auto-qualify because he won the bracket, regardless of being under the 4 match minimum. If Real Woods takes 2nd, he will not qualify via auto or at-large because he is under 4 matches. If Real Woods takes 3rd or 4th (or 5th/6th for that matter) he could possibly get an At-Large solely on the fact that he wrestled four matches, but if he cant win the 141 bracket I have a better chance of winning the powerball than he does at getting an At-Large How are at-large selections decided again? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IronChef 740 Report post Posted February 10 "If the second place finisher in a weight class does not have 4 matches, but the third place finisher does have 4 matches, the third place finisher can be awarded the pre-allocated spot, as the second place finisher is not eligible" - Yes, if he has four matches. It doesn't say will because he has to have four matches. If 2nd and 3rd are under 4, 4th place is next up. "Wrestler with less than 4 matches would not be eligible for a pre-allocated spot for their conference, nor would they be considered for at-large selections" - This could not be more clear. If you do not get 4 matches and do not win your conference, you will not wrestle in the NCAA championships. "The pre-allocated spots belong to the respective conferences to award" - There is no way this means the conference can disregard all the regulations and send whomever they want. It can only mean that the pre-allocated spots stay in the conference. If the pre-allocation says there are 35 qualifiers in the ACC, they will get 35 qualifiers before the at-large selections. In years past, an allocation was earned by a specific wrestler. If that wrestler did not enter the qualifier, that spot was thrown back into the at-large pool and available to any conference. This year, the allocations are not earned by individuals, so they will stay in the conference. If the Big Ten gets 8 qualifiers at 174, they will still get 8 qualifiers even if the 2nd place finisher ends with 3 matches total and is ineligible (this is possible if he was seeded 1st or 2nd even without any matches this season). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IronChef 740 Report post Posted February 10 7 minutes ago, 1032004 said: How are at-large selections decided again? https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/championships/sports/wrestling/d1/men/D1MWR_SelectionsProcess.pdf 1 1032004 reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeneParmesan 2 Report post Posted February 10 (edited) right, but the NCAA is saying in the actual rule MUST have 4 D1 matches. Conferences can't disregard this requirement, thus why all coaches are trying to get their wrestlers to have at least 4 matches and not leave it up to the conference championship the term "can", to me in the Additional Comments portion, means that yeah, technically Woods took second, but the pre-allocated spot cant go to him even though there are 2 spots in the weight class so it then goes to the third place wrestler. Edited February 10 by GeneParmesan changed can to can't disregard Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1032004 870 Report post Posted February 10 (edited) 22 minutes ago, IronChef said: https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/championships/sports/wrestling/d1/men/D1MWR_SelectionsProcess.pdf thanks. For those who don't want to click the link: At-Large Standards Wrestlers who meet or exceed any two of the following: • .700 Win %. • Top 33 Coaches Ranking. • .700 Win% against all competition. • One win against a wrestler receiving automatic qualification or a pre-allocated spot. • Qualifying event placement one below last pre-allocation spot. • Seeded in top 16 during 2020 selections. • Finished in top 8 during 2019 championships. Edit: although that still doesn't say exactly who selects them. I think I saw it was the "Division I Wrestling Committee" or something? Edited February 10 by 1032004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hammerlockthree 2,038 Report post Posted February 10 Why does anyone listen to that show? It's not informative, funny, controversial........ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bnwtwg 476 Report post Posted February 10 starting a partnership with Martin Floreani call it FloCharts where we hire artists to paint pictures in all the rule books since his podcasters can't read 4 Husker_Du, Wrestleknownothing, backpack and 1 other reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
calot 191 Report post Posted February 10 (edited) Tomorrow allocations will come out.As well as the first coaches poll must've 2 matches.The allocations are based on a 5 year average not by what happened this year hence why theyre coming out prior to the season ending.If you do NOT have 4 matches and you miss conferences due to a covid related issue you WONT be going to NCAA.You don't earn a allocation until after you place at the conference tournament.If you don't WIN your conference and have fewer then 4 matches you WONT be going to NCAA.Your matches wrestled at the conference tournament COUNT towards the 4 .In a normal year you need 17 for a RPI if you enter conferences with 14 and leave with 17 you can earn a RPI those matches count.This year is no different the matches at conferences COUNT.Last time I post on the issue.You can believe it or not. Edited February 10 by calot 1 bracketbuster reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wrestleknownothing 382 Report post Posted February 10 32 minutes ago, bnwtwg said: starting a partnership with Martin Floreani call it FloCharts where we hire artists to paint pictures in all the rule books since his podcasters can't read There is so much I like about this post, but FloCharts is my favorite. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wrestleknownothing 382 Report post Posted February 10 21 minutes ago, calot said: Tomorrow allocations will come out.As well as the first coaches poll must've 2 matches.The allocations are based on a 5 year average not by what happened this year hence why theyre coming out prior to the season ending.If you do NOT have 4 matches and you miss conferences due to a covid related issue you WONT be going to NCAA.You don't earn a allocation until after you place at the conference tournament.If you don't WIN your conference and have fewer then 4 matches you WONT be going to NCAA.Your matches wrestled at the conference tournament COUNT towards the 4 .In a normal year you need 17 for a RPI if you enter conferences with 14 and leave with 17 you can earn a RPI those matches count.This year is no different the matches at conferences COUNT.Last time I post on the issue.You can believe it or not. Very tempted to take the over. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Husker_Du 569 Report post Posted February 10 Didn't listen to FRL so not sure what they said. i do catch it from time to time or when someone sends me clips. I did do a show on it (very much appreciate you fellas who listen and support), but i'll be honest - i wasn't 100% clear on it prior to my cohost resolving some confusion for me. So idk where the FRL boys were at in their collective grasp of qualifying - but there is certainly a level of vagueness in the language in the book. so maybe they deserve some latitude. here's the show (i made it free) https://rokfin.com/stream/3764/The-First-Word-217 don't be too harsh haha. still working out some kinks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bnwtwg 476 Report post Posted February 10 Just now, Husker_Du said: Didn't listen to FRL so not sure what they said. i do catch it from time to time or when someone sends me clips. I did do a show on it (very much appreciate you fellas who listen and support), but i'll be honest - i wasn't 100% clear on it prior to my cohost resolving some confusion for me. So idk where the FRL boys were at in their collective grasp of qualifying - but there is certainly a level of vagueness in the language in the book. so maybe they deserve some latitude. here's the show (i made it free) https://rokfin.com/stream/3764/The-First-Word-217 don't be too harsh haha. still working out some kinks. Willie you can use my FloChart. Put that bad boy on twitter for the masses for all I care. Just don't call it a FloChart because I don't want anyone in Austin getting any ideas. 1 Husker_Du reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wrestleknownothing 382 Report post Posted February 10 41 minutes ago, Husker_Du said: Didn't listen to FRL so not sure what they said. i do catch it from time to time or when someone sends me clips. I did do a show on it (very much appreciate you fellas who listen and support), but i'll be honest - i wasn't 100% clear on it prior to my cohost resolving some confusion for me. So idk where the FRL boys were at in their collective grasp of qualifying - but there is certainly a level of vagueness in the language in the book. so maybe they deserve some latitude. here's the show (i made it free) https://rokfin.com/stream/3764/The-First-Word-217 don't be too harsh haha. still working out some kinks. what's all this high road crap? 1 Husker_Du reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Idaho 790 Report post Posted February 10 Where does it state that the matches in the conference tournament count as the 4 match total for qualification? I see a timeline of 4 matches for coaches ranking leading up to conference, but I don't see where it states that the 4 matches you need can be the matches at the conference tournament. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gimpeltf 1,521 Report post Posted February 10 4 hours ago, GeneParmesan said: 7 minutes ago, Idaho said: Where does it state that the matches in the conference tournament count as the 4 match total for qualification? I see a timeline of 4 matches for coaches ranking leading up to conference, but I don't see where it states that the 4 matches you need can be the matches at the conference tournament. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HurricaneWrestling2 581 Report post Posted February 10 7 hours ago, Gantry said: Rereading my posts I'm overly salty about everything, apologies @Wrestleknownothing - this year has made me a bitter jaded old fart. Welcome to the club... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bracketbuster 47 Report post Posted February 11 (edited) I don't want to sound like I am piling on but I just watched the FRL where they talked about allocations and that is really bad and just total ignorance on their part. One person even wrote to them in the chat and explained the process and they pretty much dismissed it on the air as that person clearly "mistyped." Edited February 11 by bracketbuster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grappler6 135 Report post Posted February 11 I was the individual who “mistyped” and I demand a public apology!!! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 bracketbuster reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Henry 31 Report post Posted February 11 Does Rudis still have a podcast? For a while they seemed to be producing a fair amount of content but I haven't seen much lately aside from some instructional clips. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
