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moveurfeet32

Does Orndoff at 285lbs Qualify this year?

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Was a big shot for Utah Valley and then enters the B1G Time...0-4 against top 25 and pinned 2x and teched he better hope he has a decent Conference Tournament .and he hasn't met GS yet 

Edited by moveurfeet32

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21 minutes ago, moveurfeet32 said:

Was a big shot for Utah Valley and then enters the B1G Time...0-4 against top 25 and pinned 2x he better hope he has a decent Conference Tournament .and he hasn't met GS yet 

He had wins over Hall, Wood, Isley, Gremmel and Hokit last year....but this year he has been struggling for sure. With 7 spots in the B10 I think he still gets in and hopefully gets it figured out

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41 minutes ago, moveurfeet32 said:

Was a big shot for Utah Valley and then enters the B1G Time...0-4 against top 25 and pinned 2x and teched he better hope he has a decent Conference Tournament .and he hasn't met GS yet 

Maybe instead of poaching from other schools (and at the same time crying about similar things happening across the nation) try developing the talent within the room. It is my understanding that Traub is a favorite among fans. Although that won't keep you in the line-up, he did have a good year last year. I'm baffled that Ohio State would bring in someone else. 

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4 hours ago, Idaho said:

He had wins over Hall, Wood, Isley, Gremmel and Hokit last year....but this year he has been struggling for sure. With 7 spots in the B10 I think he still gets in and hopefully gets it figured out

Well he's not beating, Gable, Parris or Cassioppi, has already lost to Hillger and Luffman and I'm not sure he beats Nevills which in theory could put him at 7.  He did beat Lance 2-1 in 2019 but Lance has beaten Hillger this year.    I wouldn't even call him a sure thing over Boone McDermott.

 

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No question he has been I disappointment so far.  However, no matter how popular GTG is, there wrestle off confirmed how far GTG is from AAing.

if you’re a top team you have to try the opportunity to add points with someone like Orndorf.

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11 hours ago, Mphillips said:

I suppose Ryan could have said, "Don't come to Columbus."  That's the knock on Ryan, "can't develop talent.' I will say that GTG was the biggest, 'fan favorite' since Superman.

 

 

9 hours ago, Downtown Brown said:

Tan Tom a better recruiter / CEO/ promoter etc than developer in my opinion. Didn’t say he’s a bad coach. He’s just better at the other stuff.

Come on guys, that’s what assistants are paid for ,the development of the room. Get off poor Tom’s butt.

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14 hours ago, RealAmericanHero said:

Maybe instead of poaching from other schools (and at the same time crying about similar things happening across the nation) try developing the talent within the room. It is my understanding that Traub is a favorite among fans. Although that won't keep you in the line-up, he did have a good year last year. I'm baffled that Ohio State would bring in someone else. 

The original plan was to install Kerkvliet for the next 4 years because Singletary, who was already an AA/R12 type at 285, would begin a long descent down to 197 to replace Moore. But Snyder left which caused Kerk to follow with him to PSU, Singletary got hurt at CKLV and couldn't lift so kept dropping down, and this culminated in adding Orndorff to the room to stop the bleeding.

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6 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

The original plan was to install Kerkvliet for the next 4 years because Singletary, who was already an AA/R12 type at 285, would begin a long descent down to 197 to replace Moore. But Snyder left which caused Kerk to follow with him to PSU, Singletary got hurt at CKLV and couldn't lift so kept dropping down, and this culminated in adding Orndorff to the room to stop the bleeding.

Did they recruit Orndorff from UVU?  Seems like someone might have to tweet @NCAA if that’s the case...

Edited by 1032004

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The why actually coach when you can just poach attitude/mentality has been growing more and more in wrestling the last few years. You see it in recruiting, clubs, high schools, colleges.. and how more and more people are “coaching”. Of all the issues wrestling is facing. This mentality worries me the most. 
 

It’s one the the biggest factors leading to lower participation, lack of depth, and ability for regular schools to be competitive.... that wrestling is directly responsible for. Some factors leading to lower participation, we can’t do anything about, (cultural, generational, etc.). This poach rather than coach attitude is almost self cannibalism. It’s also help grow the asinine belief that you can’t build mental toughness which is used as one of the excuses for poaching athletes.

You especially see the attitude with certain types of youth coaches. The kind who don’t coach high school cause there’s “too many rules and paperwork” and the “kids aren’t tuff”. Oh no.. how dare the higher level of wrestling require a higher level of hard work, accountability, and coaching... eye roll.

I have been flat out told by two DI assistants, one DI head coach, and someone close to the Ohio State program.. that Penn State and tOSU are without a doubt abusing the RTCs as a slush fund to land so many of the top recruits.. which decreases the ability of other programs to land good recruits and be competitive. and those people who told me.. get very irritated at the idiots who say “why don’t the expose it then” because.. no one wants to risk more DI programs getting cut.. which WILL happen if that particular rock is looked under.

I could go on. But honestly the thing that bothers me the most.. is how lazy the poaching attitude really is. Most of the people I know who are involved in that who toxic culture always give the same excu.. “reasons”. “The kids suck, aren’t tuff, I have to worry about eligibility, a lot of them were/are first year kids”


I’m sorry, I was under the impression that wrestlers prided themselves on working harder than everyone else.. or is that just for running sprints.. and not applying that hard work to actually useful things like.. actually coaching and developing kids, putting in the hard work and culture that actually builds mental toughness in supposedly  “soft” kids. I suppose teaching some aggressive 8 years a cow catcher is much much easier than; playing politics in the school, building relationships with other coaches and promoting your program within the school. You know.. actual important things. Grow up, stop having the adolescent entitled attitude many of these coach have. 

TLDR: The “why coach when you can poach” mentality is toxic, directly leading to decreasing numbers and depth in the sport.. and from everything I’ve seen.. The number one reason for it is laziness. 
 

* I know I rambled, this was typed in different parts throughout the day lol

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**the poacher types are also the ones who say asinine things like. “Why even bother with that change, wrestling will never be mainstream”

Again the laziness comes into play. It’s much more convenient in the short term to be the big fish in a shrinking pond rather than swimming in the ocean.

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17 minutes ago, jp157 said:

The why actually coach when you can just poach attitude/mentality has been growing more and more in wrestling the last few years. You see it in recruiting, clubs, high schools, colleges.. and how more and more people are “coaching”. Of all the issues wrestling is facing. This mentality worries me the most. 
...

I have been flat out told by two DI assistants, one DI head coach, and someone close to the Ohio State program.. that Penn State and tOSU are without a doubt abusing the RTCs as a slush fund to land so many of the top recruits.. which decreases the ability of other programs to land good recruits and be competitive. and those people who told me.. get very irritated at the idiots who say “why don’t the expose it then” because.. no one wants to risk more DI programs getting cut.. which WILL happen if that particular rock is looked under.

How exactly would they be abusing it?  Paying kids while they're in school?  Promising "jobs" as RTC athletes once they graduate?

I still don't get how "looking under that rock" would cause more D1 programs to be cut.    Penn State and Ohio State aren't getting cut.  And as you said, that decreases the ability of other schools to land big recruits.  The other schools are the ones in danger of being cut, so if big schools are doing something illegal (not sure if they actually are), stopping that seems like a better way to make sure those other schools don't get cut.

Edited by 1032004

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5 hours ago, southend said:

 

Come on guys, that’s what assistants are paid for ,the development of the room. Get off poor Tom’s butt.

I hope that’s a joke or a tad sarcastic. Head coaches should definitely be part of the development process. If not, the school is paying too much. I’m sure Tan Man is part of the process, I just think he’s better at the other stuff than developing wrestlers. And I don’t put Orndorff current level of wrestling squarely on the shoulders of Tom. 

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2 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

How exactly would they be abusing it?  Paying kids while they're in school?  Promising "jobs" as RTC athletes once they graduate?

I still don't get how "looking under that rock" would cause more D1 programs to be cut.    Penn State and Ohio State aren't getting cut.  And as you said, that decreases the ability of other schools to land big recruits.  The other schools are the ones in danger of being cut, so if big schools are doing something illegal (not sure if they actually are), stopping that seems like a better way to make sure those other schools don't get cut.

Can’t speak for original author, but I feel the thinking is possible. Schools often don’t want to spend money on something they view themselves as not having a legit and/or fair shot  of success. Of course they don’t usually do this in football or basketball where they continue to throw gross gobs of cash at sports they have literally no chance of being any good at.

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1 minute ago, 1032004 said:

How exactly would they be abusing it?  Paying kids while they're in school?  Promising "jobs" as RTC athletes once they graduate?

I still don't get how "looking under that rock" would cause more D1 programs to be cut.    Penn State and Ohio State aren't getting cut.  And as you said, that decreases the ability of other schools to land big recruits.  The other schools are the ones in danger of being cut, so if big schools are doing something illegal (not sure if they actually are), stopping that seems like a better way to make sure those other schools don't get cut.

Promised jobs, paying of expenses outside of tuition, all kinds of other benefits that are clear NCAA violations. 


Wrestling is a..”shrinking” sport. Especially in DI. If even half the “rumors” are true. If the NCAA actually looked into it. The best best scenario is heavy sanctions and suspension. And it’s much easier to cut a wrestling program than people really want to confront head on. 
 

Ive also been told that the NCAA has basically said something along the lines of. “We’re dealing with football and basketball violations and money.. if we actually have to start looking into this, we’re not going to be merciful”

If you don’t agree or believe me that’s fine. I trust the people who told me.

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7 minutes ago, Downtown Brown said:

I hope that’s a joke or a tad sarcastic. Head coaches should definitely be part of the development process. If not, the school is paying too much. I’m sure Tan Man is part of the process, I just think he’s better at the other stuff than developing wrestlers. And I don’t put Orndorff current level of wrestling squarely on the shoulders of Tom. 

Rob Koll pretty much is just the CEO guy when it comes to day to day operations and training at Cornell. There’s several schools like that. Most of them seem to function effectively.

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5 hours ago, southend said:

 

Come on guys, that’s what assistants are paid for ,the development of the room. Get off poor Tom’s butt.

I was responding to the post above mine.  Not, 'soapboxing.'  I know southenders, y'all are troublemakers.

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He maybe having a rough season this far, but based on prior results I’d still put him in the middle of the current Big10 285 group when wresting well. Qualifying wise they are taking about half the HWTs from the conference.  Sure he’ss not going to get any favors in the opening round draw,  but he just has to hope he doesn’t get the worse possible early consol match and he got a solid shot at getting in.  I’m sure OSU was hoping for a little more out of him, but making the NCAA still should yield give him a shot at possibly a couple wins and yield the Buckeyes a few points. 

Edited by MadMardigain

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1 hour ago, jp157 said:

Promised jobs, paying of expenses outside of tuition, all kinds of other benefits that are clear NCAA violations. 


Wrestling is a..”shrinking” sport. Especially in DI. If even half the “rumors” are true. If the NCAA actually looked into it. The best best scenario is heavy sanctions and suspension. And it’s much easier to cut a wrestling program than people really want to confront head on. 
 

Ive also been told that the NCAA has basically said something along the lines of. “We’re dealing with football and basketball violations and money.. if we actually have to start looking into this, we’re not going to be merciful”

If you don’t agree or believe me that’s fine. I trust the people who told me.

Still not sure I follow?   Ohio State gets sanctioned and that results in Kent State's team getting cut?

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2 hours ago, Downtown Brown said:

I hope that’s a joke or a tad sarcastic. Head coaches should definitely be part of the development process. If not, the school is paying too much. I’m sure Tan Man is part of the process, I just think he’s better at the other stuff than developing wrestlers. And I don’t put Orndorff current level of wrestling squarely on the shoulders of Tom. 

Neither, the head coach of a top notch program forms the program.for success. This includes many things he is responsible for. One of those things is player development. By hiring good people in to the program, the day to day falls on these top notch assistants. A good head coach relies on these assistants and delegates accordingly. 

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1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

Still not sure I follow?   Ohio State gets sanctioned and that results in Kent State's team getting cut?

The possibility of Ohio state or Penn state getting cut exists, however unlikely some think. Like I said. The minimum would be massive sanctions or suspensions. So the best case scenario is two DI programs are taken out for at least a couple years with sanctions. The NCAA has a history of hammering the smaller sport’s more so than football or basketball.

There are several programs that got cut because the coach was caught violating NCAA rules, wrestlers were getting in fights, partying too much, and had less than stellar grades. And when it came between the wrestling team of “psychos with little man syndrome” (let’s be honest that’s how we’re perceived a lot of the time).. or cutting the boys soccer or baseball team.. it wasn’t that hard a choice. my college almost got its program cut because of such things.

Again, people need to realize how precarious it really is for DI wrestling.


 

 

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4 hours ago, Mphillips said:

I was responding to the post above mine.  Not, 'soapboxing.'  I know southenders, y'all are troublemakers.

Eh, the poaching crap has bothered me for years lol. Back to topic. I think he won’t qualify, he seems to have regressed 

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21 minutes ago, jp157 said:

The possibility of Ohio state or Penn state getting cut exists, however unlikely some think. Like I said. The minimum would be massive sanctions or suspensions. So the best case scenario is two DI programs are taken out for at least a couple years with sanctions. The NCAA has a history of hammering the smaller sport’s more so than football or basketball.

There are several programs that got cut because the coach was caught violating NCAA rules, wrestlers were getting in fights, partying too much, and had less than stellar grades. And when it came between the wrestling team of “psychos with little man syndrome” (let’s be honest that’s how we’re perceived a lot of the time).. or cutting the boys soccer or baseball team.. it wasn’t that hard a choice. my college almost got its program cut because of such things.

Again, people need to realize how precarious it really is for DI wrestling.

I think smaller programs getting cut in part because they keep getting their good wrestlers poached is a lot more likely than PSU or Ohio State getting cut...

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