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Does Orndoff at 285lbs Qualify this year?

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23 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I think smaller programs getting cut in part because they keep getting their good wrestlers poached is a lot more likely than PSU or Ohio State getting cut...

Why not both lol. 

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Big 10 gets 7 for sure and most likely an 8th as an at large. I think Orndorff makes it in. 

As a side note, Tate was originally committed to Oregon State as he has family connections there. After his mission he decided on following his brother Tanner to UVU. Tanner graduated last  year and Tate decided to spend his last two years somewhere else. There's no recruiting conspiracy to see here. He really should be on par with the middle of the pack in the Big10, but he has definitely had a down year. I certainly wouldn't give up on him. 

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9 minutes ago, Idaho said:

Big 10 gets 7 for sure and most likely an 8th as an at large. I think Orndorff makes it in. 

As a side note, Tate was originally committed to Oregon State as he has family connections there. After his mission he decided on following his brother Tanner to UVU. Tanner graduated last  year and Tate decided to spend his last two years somewhere else. There's no recruiting conspiracy to see here. He really should be on par with the middle of the pack in the Big10, but he has definitely had a down year. I certainly wouldn't give up on him. 

I’m talking more about coaching behavior. Especially because Tom Ryan’s/tOSUs  track record on developing athletes has been.. spotty.

I know it’s not a conspiracy lol. 9/10 Conspiracies are belief systems for people who don’t want to be religious lol.

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Looking at what Ryan has accomplished at OSU, and what has happened at Hofstra since he left I would say he has proven himself to be in top tier of D1 coaches.

 

The ability to transfer and the development of the transfer portal has been a positive development for student athletes and a new wrinkle for coaches to deal with. Athletes are now more employees-at-will than indentured servants. Coaches now need to be more concerned with retention.

 

RTC programs have been an “interesting” development with all sorts of ramifications. They’ve been a boon for senior wrestlers and have helped the US performance on the world stage. They’ve created a tremendous gray zone for coaches - when a school employee is fundraising for a sport should those dollars go to the university or an outside entity (RTC)? There is lots of talk about jobs for post-college wrestlers at RTCs but less discussed is that top junior wrestlers, aka recruits, can train at RTCs. RTC funding is an arms race. There are so many ways for these things to go crooked it will be amazing if there isn’t a scandal at some point soon.

 

Oh, and from what I’ve seen of Orndorf I’m not high on his prospects to qualify for NCAAs this year.

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On 2/15/2021 at 11:37 PM, moveurfeet32 said:

Was a big shot for Utah Valley and then enters the B1G Time...0-4 against top 25 and pinned 2x and teched he better hope he has a decent Conference Tournament .and he hasn't met GS yet 

Sure he'll qualify, long as he finishes in the top 9 (LOL). Whether he wins any matches is another story. 

Edited by TobusRex

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14 hours ago, powershouse said:

Looking at what Ryan has accomplished at OSU, and what has happened at Hofstra since he left I would say he has proven himself to be in top tier of D1 coaches.

 

The ability to transfer and the development of the transfer portal has been a positive development for student athletes and a new wrinkle for coaches to deal with. Athletes are now more employees-at-will than indentured servants. Coaches now need to be more concerned with retention.

 

RTC programs have been an “interesting” development with all sorts of ramifications. They’ve been a boon for senior wrestlers and have helped the US performance on the world stage. They’ve created a tremendous gray zone for coaches - when a school employee is fundraising for a sport should those dollars go to the university or an outside entity (RTC)? There is lots of talk about jobs for post-college wrestlers at RTCs but less discussed is that top junior wrestlers, aka recruits, can train at RTCs. RTC funding is an arms race. There are so many ways for these things to go crooked it will be amazing if there isn’t a scandal at some point soon.

 

Oh, and from what I’ve seen of Orndorf I’m not high on his prospects to qualify for NCAAs this year.

He's a pretty good coach, but he's got a lot of resources to draw upon as well. Who knows how many guys could do as well, or better, with OSU's resources? 

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On 2/16/2021 at 11:12 PM, Idaho said:

Big 10 gets 7 for sure and most likely an 8th as an at large. I think Orndorff makes it in. 

As a side note, Tate was originally committed to Oregon State as he has family connections there. After his mission he decided on following his brother Tanner to UVU. Tanner graduated last  year and Tate decided to spend his last two years somewhere else. There's no recruiting conspiracy to see here. He really should be on par with the middle of the pack in the Big10, but he has definitely had a down year. I certainly wouldn't give up on him. 

He might still be trying to catch up on his training, fitness. Who knows, maybe he's battling some physical issues we aren't aware of. 

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On 2/16/2021 at 12:23 AM, RealAmericanHero said:

Maybe instead of poaching from other schools (and at the same time crying about similar things happening across the nation) try developing the talent within the room. It is my understanding that Traub is a favorite among fans. Although that won't keep you in the line-up, he did have a good year last year. I'm baffled that Ohio State would bring in someone else. 

LOL, "Gas Tank Gary" :D Was Traub awarded as All American last year? I liked him a good bit, didn't he finish 4th or 5th at B1Gs? 

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16 minutes ago, treep2000 said:

Short Answer... By the skin of his teeth.  As a buckeye fan, would rather see GTG give it a go at this point.  At least he'll have some spunk getting tech'd or pinned by Parris.

I disagree.  In the three matches he's wrestled this season he has looked fat and well into being spherical in shape.  That doesn't even mention that he has gassed hard in all three and injury defaulted one of them.

2018-2020 GTG is a mythological creature at this point.  Like Unicorns and logical folks on wrestling forums.  Just... hard to come by.

Must suck.  You give everything you got, and they still tell you you're 3rd string AFTER you outperform one of the gents(beating him in a wrestleoff) then the other gent proceeds to $HlT the bed against opponents you either beat or were competitive with.

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15 hours ago, powershouse said:

Looking at what Ryan has accomplished at OSU, and what has happened at Hofstra since he left I would say he has proven himself to be in top tier of D1 coaches.

 

The ability to transfer and the development of the transfer portal has been a positive development for student athletes and a new wrinkle for coaches to deal with. Athletes are now more employees-at-will than indentured servants. Coaches now need to be more concerned with retention.

 

RTC programs have been an “interesting” development with all sorts of ramifications. They’ve been a boon for senior wrestlers and have helped the US performance on the world stage. They’ve created a tremendous gray zone for coaches - when a school employee is fundraising for a sport should those dollars go to the university or an outside entity (RTC)? There is lots of talk about jobs for post-college wrestlers at RTCs but less discussed is that top junior wrestlers, aka recruits, can train at RTCs. RTC funding is an arms race. There are so many ways for these things to go crooked it will be amazing if there isn’t a scandal at some point soon.

 

Oh, and from what I’ve seen of Orndorf I’m not high on his prospects to qualify for NCAAs this year.

The lack of development in his athletes at tOSU compared to what he did at Hofstra is worthy of discussion on its own. Though I was under the impression that he got a lot of good athletes through the local community college near Hofstra. 
 

And that’s what worries me about the RTCs. That they are producing results in the short term and the cause of serious problems for domestic wrestling in the US long term. I personally don’t want wrestling to become a club only sport. 

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1 hour ago, TobusRex said:

He's a pretty good coach, but he's got a lot of resources to draw upon as well. Who knows how many guys could do as well, or better, with OSU's resources? 

That's where the part about him being really successful at Hofstra comes in.  He was super successful there without all the resources which is why it was him and not " many guys" who got the opportunity.  

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48 minutes ago, jp157 said:

The lack of development in his athletes at tOSU compared to what he did at Hofstra is worthy of discussion on its own. Though I was under the impression that he got a lot of good athletes through the local community college near Hofstra. 
 

And that’s what worries me about the RTCs. That they are producing results in the short term and the cause of serious problems for domestic wrestling in the US long term. I personally don’t want wrestling to become a club only sport. 

Once again the perception that there is a lack of development in tOSU athletes.  The Buckeyes have won a team title and been runners up 5 times since Tom Ryan has been coach.  They have had a host of incredible wrestlers including numerous NCAA champs and AA, a 4 x champ/champ world champ, and a 3x champ Olympic Champ.  Ohio State gets really good recruits but they don't walk through the doors ready to win NCAA and World titles.  Do you guys really hate Ohio State that bad that you cannot see this?

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16 minutes ago, balanceseeker said:

Once again the perception that there is a lack of development in tOSU athletes.  The Buckeyes have won a team title and been runners up 5 times since Tom Ryan has been coach.  They have had a host of incredible wrestlers including numerous NCAA champs and AA, a 4 x champ/champ world champ, and a 3x champ Olympic Champ.  Ohio State gets really good recruits but they don't walk through the doors ready to win NCAA and World titles.  Do you guys really hate Ohio State that bad that you cannot see this?

Well to be fair they have to have the record for most freshman NCAA champs never to repeat right?

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Just now, balanceseeker said:

Once again the perception that there is a lack of development in tOSU athletes.  The Buckeyes have won a team title and been runners up 5 times since Tom Ryan has been coach.  They have had a host of incredible wrestlers including numerous NCAA champs and AA, a 4 x champ/champ world champ, and a 3x champ Olympic Champ.  Ohio State gets really good recruits but they don't walk through the doors ready to win NCAA and World titles.  Do you guys really hate Ohio State that bad that you cannot see this?

I’m well aware of the results. No I don’t “hate” Ohio State. My personal observation is that their ability to develop athletes has diminished more and more since Rosseli left. 
 

You don’t see Tom Ryan tOSU developing regular or mid tier guys into AA or national championship level caliber.. the way an NC State, Missouri, Oklahoma State, and Penn state have done with a regular to semi regular rate. I could go on. 
 

(I also think Rosseli leaving played a factor in Snyder’s regression the last few years). No I’m not a Rosseli fanboy. It’s my observation )
 

Tom Ryan is a great recruiter, runs the program well, good at fundraising and has for all intents and purposes unlimited resources along with “gray area” benefits of the RTC.. those things go a long long way. He’s extremely good at acquiring elite talent that comes in ready to go right away. That still doesn’t change my opinion of his track record when it comes to developing athletes. Especially in comparison to the other top tier coaches

 

If you want to hear actual harsh criticism of Ohio State and their development of athletes, listen to some of the Inside Trip podcast. They’re both Ohio guys through and through.

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2 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Well to be fair they have to have the record for most freshman NCAA champs never to repeat right?

Lol I didn’t even address the theme of regression they seem to have lol

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3 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Welp, Kerk’s appearance is more bad news for Orndorff...

Heavyweight is crazy this year. 
  
There are 3 top 20ish in the world guys, plus Cohlton Shultz. A guy like Elam in most years would be top 4. 

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3 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Well to be fair they have to have the record for most freshman NCAA champs never to repeat right?

Mark Hall never repeated.  Vincenzo Joseph only won one more after his freshman year.  Is this because Cale sucks at coaching or because it's super hard to win an NCAA title let alone multiple titles?

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Tom Ryan
With Roselli 
2007 9th B1G /10th NCAA
2008 5th B1G /2nd NCAA
2009 6th B1G /2nd NCAA
2010 4th B1G /8th NCAA
2011 8th B1G /29th NCAA
2012 5th B1G / 5th NCAA
2013 4th B1G /6th NCAA
2014 4th B1G /6th NCAA
2015 Champ / Champ

Without Roselli

2016 3rd B1G /3rd NCAA 

2017 Champ B1G / 2nd NCAA
2018 Champ B1G /2nd NCAA
2019 2nd B1G / 2nd NCAA
2020 3rd B1G

I believe only Cael has been better.

Edited by Mphillips

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How exactly would they be abusing it?  Paying kids while they're in school?  Promising "jobs" as RTC athletes once they graduate?
I still don't get how "looking under that rock" would cause more D1 programs to be cut.    Penn State and Ohio State aren't getting cut.  And as you said, that decreases the ability of other schools to land big recruits.  The other schools are the ones in danger of being cut, so if big schools are doing something illegal (not sure if they actually are), stopping that seems like a better way to make sure those other schools don't get cut.
Having home schooled kids moving from other states to train at the rtc.

Having high end talent redshirt training with post grads at the rtc.

Having high school grads in the room training for several years, but not enrolled in school thus saving eligibility. When the enroll, they're immediately redshirted preserving another year of eligibility.

This nonsense hurts the sport, especially the mid majors.

Soon, enough we will be under 50 teams if the rtc's are cleaned up. The mid majors, (even Stanford) will use the under funded excuses to eliminate wrestling. It's a convenient excuse for them to use.









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3 hours ago, jp157 said:

I’m well aware of the results. No I don’t “hate” Ohio State. My personal observation is that their ability to develop athletes has diminished more and more since Rosseli left. 
 

You don’t see Tom Ryan tOSU developing regular or mid tier guys into AA or national championship level caliber.. the way an NC State, Missouri, Oklahoma State, and Penn state have done with a regular to semi regular rate. I could go on. 
 

(I also think Rosseli leaving played a factor in Snyder’s regression the last few years). No I’m not a Rosseli fanboy. It’s my observation )
 

Tom Ryan is a great recruiter, runs the program well, good at fundraising and has for all intents and purposes unlimited resources along with “gray area” benefits of the RTC.. those things go a long long way. He’s extremely good at acquiring elite talent that comes in ready to go right away. That still doesn’t change my opinion of his track record when it comes to developing athletes. Especially in comparison to the other top tier coaches

 

If you want to hear actual harsh criticism of Ohio State and their development of athletes, listen to some of the Inside Trip podcast. They’re both Ohio guys through and through.

Losing Lou was huge (I am a Rosselli fanboy) but he's not the only one in the room that can coach.  J and Tervel are both obviously very accomplished as athletes and coaches.  On this years team I would argue that Heinselman, Ethan Smith, and Romero as athletes that have made significant development in the past several on the current squad.  Sasso has gotten a lot better as well but he was pretty dang good to begin with.  

 

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I’m talking more about coaching behavior. Especially because Tom Ryan’s/tOSUs  track record on developing athletes has been.. spotty.
I know it’s not a conspiracy lol. 9/10 Conspiracies are belief systems for people who don’t want to be religious lol.
So multiple world champs aren't a big deal?

How about Olympic gold medals?

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