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TripNSweep

Tsabolov to wrestle for Serbia

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1 hour ago, TripNSweep said:

Just heard this about 20 minutes ago. Thoughts? UWW said no transfers were allowed for the Olympics. Wonder if they told him he wasn't going to be their rep for the Olympics so he left. 

I don’t follow.  Why would he go somewhere else if UWW said no transfers for the Olympics?

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If true I don’t like it. Getting really old seeing all these Russians wrestling for France and the like. I understand we have some guys who do it as well. Still don’t like it. Not a real representation of how good your country is or isn’t at wrestling.

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If true I don’t like it. Getting really old seeing all these Russians wrestling for France and the like. I understand we have some guys who do it as well. Still don’t like it. Not a real representation of how good your country is or isn’t at wrestling.

The French dude is a bad example. He’s been there since he was a young kid.

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34 minutes ago, AnklePicker said:

If true I don’t like it. Getting really old seeing all these Russians wrestling for France and the like. I understand we have some guys who do it as well. Still don’t like it. Not a real representation of how good your country is or isn’t at wrestling.

Personally, I feel exactly the opposite. If we have the three best gymnasts, China has the three best divers, and Russia has the three best wrestlers, those are the nine people I want to see with medals. Best of the best regardless of country of origin. 

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11 hours ago, JasonBryant said:


The French dude is a bad example. He’s been there since he was a young kid.

They have more than just Khadjiev.  Look at this article back from 2013 even:  http://www.wrestling.com.ua/en/news/article/volnaja/13_06_20_frankochechenskaya_sbornaya/. These are greco guys but I thought even at the Henri Delange I noticed several Russian names representing France.  And while it may not be a great example, the point still stands, they are freaking everywhere at this point.

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10 hours ago, GoNotQuietly said:

Personally, I feel exactly the opposite. If we have the three best gymnasts, China has the three best divers, and Russia has the three best wrestlers, those are the nine people I want to see with medals. Best of the best regardless of country of origin. 

I just don't feel like that's in the spirit of the Olympics.  

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I just don't feel like that's in the spirit of the Olympics.  
I feel like the Olympics are supposed to be the most talent-laden event there is.
I would prefer the best athletes find a way to compete.
It increases the quality of the product.
True a country may have 1 or 2 new wrestlers pop up on the medal count to move them from 14th to 13th... But why does that bother you at all?

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Countries, IMHO.  Bringing the world together in spirit of athletic competition.  
 

If want it to be about the individuals, many countries would not be represented.  
 

I say, if this is the desire, the very best of the best, regardless of country, create a ‘True’ individual world championship.  I’d pay to watch that too!!

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I think by a "good" athlete representing a country it draws that country into being more involved with the sport.
So if the idea is bringing the world together.... I think that would accomplish it. 
I guess if the spirit of the Olympics for you is flexing on countries with sub-optimal athletes.
Than sure, this would be a sore spot. But improving the tournament and giving lesser countries a chance to cheer for a medal, you'll never convince me it's a "bad" thing.
 

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2 hours ago, RED said:

Are the Olympics supposed to be more about competition between the countries, or individuals?

Countries otherwise why would they even represent their country?  They'd be more likely to represent their club.  They know it's a problem because they've tried to curb this behavior with rules including the one mentioned in the original post.  I'm all for having a tournament where every single person on the planet gets a chance to truly be the best in the world, shoot I'd even offer prize money as an incentive but that's not what the Olympics should be about imo.  

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1 hour ago, spladle08 said:

I think by a "good" athlete representing a country it draws that country into being more involved with the sport.
So if the idea is bringing the world together.... I think that would accomplish it. 
I guess if the spirit of the Olympics for you is flexing on countries with sub-optimal athletes.
Than sure, this would be a sore spot. But improving the tournament and giving lesser countries a chance to cheer for a medal, you'll never convince me it's a "bad" thing.
 

It's not about flexing on countries with sub optimal athletes, it's about showing how great your country is at a particular sport.  A guy moving from Russia, who was already a senior world champ, to wrestle for another country says absolutely nothing about how that country develops actual wrestlers.

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56 minutes ago, Jon_Kozak said:

If I'm understanding this document correctly, it looks like transfers were opened back up and are eligible for all competitions moving forward.

https://unitedworldwrestling.org/sites/default/files/2020-12/28_change_nationality_eng.pdf

Pantaleo needs to figure out what country he is from.

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3 hours ago, AnklePicker said:

It's not about flexing on countries with sub optimal athletes, it's about showing how great your country is at a particular sport.  A guy moving from Russia, who was already a senior world champ, to wrestle for another country says absolutely nothing about how that country develops actual wrestlers.

Is this your outlook on all world level competitions? I assume yes. 
Which means we will always disagree.
If you're #2 in the world and the #1 guy happens to live in your country.... by all means I support you representing Venezuela for a chance to achieve your goal. 
I understand some don't like it, but I'm more about the individuals. 
#Cheers!
Enjoy the fireworks!!!!

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Wow this is a huge development! I’m torn on my opinion on it. You can’t really blame the guy... he has a legitimate chance at being an Olympic champ, but his country probably isn’t going to give him a fair shake. On the other hand, I believe the Olympics are all about representation given YOUR country. I don’t like the idea of switching up countries and potentially winning a medal for a country that you aren’t actually from. I know it happens a lot but doesn’t mean we have to like it. It would be a tough decision if you are actually the one that has to make it though. I don’t think I would do it, but maybe that opinion would change if I was from Russia?

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I totally understand the other perspective on this and I truly wish the IOC followed their own creeds and mottos.  It is very hard to say what the Olympics is "for" besides to make an astonishing amount of money, but it surely encompasses both individual and nation-state competition.

"1.Olympism is a philosophy of life, exalting and combining in a balanced whole the
qualities of body, will and mind. Blending sport with culture and education, Olympism
seeks to create a way of life based on the joy of effort, the educational value of good
example, social responsibility and respect for universal fundamental ethical principles.
2. The goal of Olympism is to place sport at the service of the harmonious development
of humankind, with a view to promoting a peaceful society concerned with the
preservation of human dignity.
3. The Olympic Movement is the concerted, organised, universal and permanent action,
carried out under the supreme authority of the IOC, of all individuals and entities who
are inspired by the values of Olympism. It covers the five continents. It reaches its
peak with the bringing together of the world’s athletes at the great sports festival, the
Olympic Games. Its symbol is five interlaced rings.
4. The practice of sport is a human right. Every individual must have the possibility of
practising sport, without discrimination of any kind and in the Olympic spirit, which
requires mutual understanding with a spirit of friendship, solidarity and fair play."

However, If we are going to keep the Games as the pinnacle of our Sport and only allow single entry competition rather than an Open Worlds, I think it is very unfair to expect some of the greatest athletes in the World to sit home at the detriment of themselves and their family's future out of some vague, and I think misplaced, idea of national allegiance. 

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It is silly how the IOC sh--s all over certain sports (wrestling, etc...) with the notion that there are too many medals so we must reduce the number of competitors and only allow one entrant per country.  Meanwhile other sports (swimming, track, gymnastics) have multiple entrants per nation and athletes like Michael Phelps have literally 25+ medals.

 

So yeah...  I have no problem with the some working the system to do what they gotta do to compete.  

Edited by matts1w

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Yes the real travesty is only 6 weights and only one wrestler per country. It definitely seems unfair when we see multiple athletes in a lot of other sports. The US and Russia will both be leaving behind some guys who would almost certainly medal. I still don’t like the idea of transferring countries, but I understand it. I just wish we could make the rule changes that would so easily solve the problem.

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Worlds/Olympics are more fun if multiple wrestlers from the top countries are competing. I'm guessing the only reason UWW doesn't allow it is because it would damage the chances of non-wrestling countries from winning medals even further. If Tsabalov qualifies then him wrestling at 74kg in Tokyo will make it more entertaining, hopefully they eventually just allow countries to send multiple wrestlers. Maybe you can send 1 guy to worlds like you can now and if you want additional entries they have to qualify for it. I'm sure they can think of something if they want to make it happen. 

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I was checking out the Olympic.org site referenced above.  I did find the following in their Olympic Charter.  I guess it is about the individual.  

 

The Olympic Games are competitions between athletes in individual or team events and not between countries. They bring together the athletes selected by their respective NOCs, whose entries have been accepted by the IOC. They compete under the technical direction of the IFs concerned.

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