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Cal Baptist to Big 12 (2022-23)

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https://cbulancers.com/news/2021/2/16/cbu-wrestling-accepts-conditional-membership-status-from-big-12-conference.aspx

Eligible in 2022-23 season. Four years is so long for a transition. The majority of their roster seems to be sophomores/freshman.

I just kind of assumed they would join the PAC 12/6/5. This seems to be a lot of travel for a program that is in California and just moved to DI but I guess they are in the WAC with Utah Valley for most sports. Looking at the map and plugging in the travel times they are further apart than it looks.

I had no idea Jim Zalesky had a brother who was a Division I wrestling coach.

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It just seems to me that some of these “Conference Affiliation” decisions are killing the ”surviveability” of said Programs before they even get started & establish fan bases & legitimacy.

Lets get in a Conference that reaches from ocean to ocean & then wonder why our University wants to cut said Program due to insane travel costs.  

I know there are other factors but this is just idiotic.  I said the same thing when Fresno State & WVU joined the Big 12 & one of them are now done.

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7 minutes ago, Show_Me said:

It just seems to me that some of these “Conference Affiliation” decisions are killing the ”surviveability” of said Programs before they even get started & establish fan bases & legitimacy.

Lets get in a Conference that reaches from ocean to ocean & then wonder why our University wants to cut said Program due to insane travel costs.  

I know there are other factors but this is just idiotic.  I said the same thing when Fresno State & WVU joined the Big 12 & one of them are now done.

Problem is, what kills the survivability of programs now is not being in a conference, so it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't type of situation. Never would have thought the Pac-12 would take CBU to begin with. Big 12 will replace the CA spot that Fresno State will leave (ack). Too many stuffed shirt politics at the President and AD levels to actually do something logical by taking the public schools in the west and putting them in the Pac-12. 

Having a conference affiliation in D1 is only as strong as the AD wants it to be. When you're an affiliate, it's easy to say "we aren't in a conference that sponsors wrestling."

Thankfully CBU didn't end up in the SoCon, which is what it was looking like for a while might happen. 

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30 minutes ago, JasonBryant said:

Never would have thought the Pac-12 would take CBU to begin with. Big 12 will replace the CA spot that Fresno State will leave (ack). Too many stuffed shirt politics at the President and AD levels to actually do something logical by taking the public schools in the west and putting them in the Pac-12. 

I don't want to misinterpret what you are saying here. Did Cal Baptist want in the PAC 12 and got told no or did the AD want to go for the bigger conference or are you just making that statement in general?

Also, I heard Missouri is leaving for the Big 12 in wrestling. Do you know if that is the case for sure?

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Hmmmm........Mizzou wanted to stay in the Big 12 for wrestling but the powers that be were too butt hurt that the school moved to the SEC.  Cal Baptist instead of Mizzou?  Nice call B12.

 

Edited by KCMO2

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7 hours ago, KCMO2 said:

Hmmmm........Mizzou wanted to stay in the Big 12 for wrestling but the powers that be were too butt hurt that the school moved to the SEC.  Cal Baptist instead of Mizzou?  Nice call B12.

 

So now where does Mizzou end up? Zeke Jones dropped Missouri's name last year as a potential Pac 12 team. All of it makes no sense really...CBU should be in the Pac12 and Missouri in the B12. Two years ago there was an article that the Pac 12 was all about adding teams to the conference...but when you can't add a West school to that list then obviously there are some problems. 

 

7 hours ago, bracketbuster said:

I don't want to misinterpret what you are saying here. Did Cal Baptist want in the PAC 12 and got told no or did the AD want to go for the bigger conference or are you just making that statement in general?

Also, I heard Missouri is leaving for the Big 12 in wrestling. Do you know if that is the case for sure?

Good questions that I would also like to know the answers to ..... CBU may not have qualified academically to be in the realm of Cal Poly and Stanford (for the time being)... but who knows? Oh yeah.... probably @JasonBryant

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8 hours ago, KCMO2 said:

Hmmmm........Mizzou wanted to stay in the Big 12 for wrestling but the powers that be were too butt hurt that the school moved to the SEC.  Cal Baptist instead of Mizzou?  Nice call B12.

 

"butt hurt?"  You said it yourself, Mizzu moved to the SEC.  Maybe the mizzu AD didn't realize they had a wrestling program or maybe he/she didn't do due diligence to find out SEC had no wrestling.  That wasn't a B12 "powers" issue.  Moreover, John just invited you guys (maybe to test the waters) to participate in a small tourney with 3 B12 programs.  Mizzu was too scared and only sent 1 starter.  Doesn't bode well for future invite.

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5 minutes ago, ionel said:

"butt hurt?"  You said it yourself, Mizzu moved to the SEC.  Maybe the mizzu AD didn't realize they had a wrestling program or maybe he/she didn't do due diligence to find out SEC had no wrestling.  That wasn't a B12 "powers" issue.  Moreover, John just invited you guys (maybe to test the waters) to participate in a small tourney with 3 B12 programs.  Mizzu was too scared and only sent 1 starter.  Doesn't bode well for future invite.

You think wrestling was part of the conversation of moving from one conference to another? Wrestling, like every single NCAA-sponsored sport except football, is a niche sport with a niche following and niche money. Wrestling wasn't part of the equation, just like Xcountry wasn't part of the decision making. When you are talking about athletic departments with 100-$250 million in annual revenue, there is only one concern at a conference like the SEC - Hut Hut. 

Additionally, Mizzou has supported the wrestling program exceptionally well for a vast majority of Brian Smith's tenure. He makes a Top 5-7 salary nationally and the assistant pool is over $250k. J'den Smith was athlete of the decade and was the first sponsored speaker for a round of Mizzou interviews with famous alumni. 

Edited by MizzouGrad

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1 minute ago, MizzouGrad said:

You think wrestling was part of the conversation of moving from one conference to another? Wrestling, like every single NCAA-sponsored sport except football, is a niche sport with a niche following and niche money. Wrestling wasn't part of the equation, just like Xcountry wasn't part of the decision making. When you are talking about athletic departments with 100-$250 million in annual revenue, there is only one concern at a conference like the SEC - Hut Hut. 

Then you only have your own coaches and AD to blame, not those of the conference you deserted.

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Just now, ionel said:

Then you only have your own coaches and AD to blame, not those of the conference you deserted.

Do you see me blaming anyone? If the Big12 prefers Cal Baptist over Mizzou due to a conference switch, that is their right. It's not like Mizzou doesn't wrestle the best-of-the-best in the Big12 on a yearly basis. 

The real beef I have with conferences is how the Big Ten will barely wrestle out-of-conference in the last few years. From Mizzou to Iowa, it's 4 hours. Why doesn't Mizzou wrestle Iowa yearly? Mizzou wrestles Northern Iowa & Iowa St. on a yearly basis since Dresser got there. But for some reason, we can't wrestle Iowa. 

Same with Nebraska & Ohio St. We used to dual them yearly, but no more. The only Big Ten teams that will dual Mizzou are Michigan St., Purdue and Maryland.

 

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7 minutes ago, MizzouGrad said:

Do you see me blaming anyone? If the Big12 prefers Cal Baptist over Mizzou due to a conference switch, that is their right. It's not like Mizzou doesn't wrestle the best-of-the-best in the Big12 on a yearly basis. 

The real beef I have with conferences is how the Big Ten will barely wrestle out-of-conference in the last few years. From Mizzou to Iowa, it's 4 hours. Why doesn't Mizzou wrestle Iowa yearly? Mizzou wrestles Northern Iowa & Iowa St. on a yearly basis since Dresser got there. But for some reason, we can't wrestle Iowa. 

Same with Nebraska & Ohio St. We used to dual them yearly, but no more. The only Big Ten teams that will dual Mizzou are Michigan St., Purdue and Maryland.

 

Read the poster I was replying to, he was blaming the B12 powers.  And I agree on the b10 programs like Oklahoma State, Minnesota etc used to have the toughest schedules in the country till we started getting so worried about expanding conferences and wrestling primarily in conference.  That plus Carl and ducking have ruined dual team wrestling. :(

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24 minutes ago, ionel said:

Then you only have your own coaches and AD to blame, not those of the conference you deserted.

Wrong.  Mizzou wrestling wanted to remain an affiliate member of the Big 12 for wrestling, which would have been a good move for them and the conference.  But the B12 wouldn't let them stay.  Since then the B12 has added 8 affiliate members, but still no Mizzou (who is better by far than any of teams added).  So that's all on the conference.

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Some of these travel times are crazy.  I just kayaked flights to get from from Morgantown to Laramie.  Assuming the best way to fly is Pittsburgh->Denver,  that takes 1.5 hours drive to Pittsburgh + 2 hours early + 4 hour flight + 1 hour in Denver for luggage and van + 2 hours to Laramie.  That is 10 hours 30 minutes!

Edited by Plasmodium

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58 minutes ago, ionel said:

Moreover, John just invited you guys (maybe to test the waters) to participate in a small tourney with 3 B12 programs.  Mizzu was too scared and only sent 1 starter.  Doesn't bode well for future invite.

I think we all understand why Missouri didn't send starters ...  the events proximity to the MAC Tournament (covid protocols).

I do however agree that its a bad look.  

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6 minutes ago, Show_Me said:

I think we all understand why Missouri didn't send starters ...  the events proximity to the MAC Tournament (covid protocols).

I do however agree that its a bad look.  

It was a tournament created to get Daton his matches if Daton had been wrestling all year that format would've never been used. Mizzu did the job John wanted and that was to send guys to fill the brackets. 

And as far as the Big 12  goes Little Rock wanted in and the Big 12 coaches voted to not let them in . 

Edited by calot

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3 minutes ago, calot said:

And as far as the Big 12  goes Little Rock wanted in and the Big 12 coaches voted to not let them in . 

Trying to understand why Cal Baptist is deemed a good addition to the Big 12 but Little Rock wasn't ?  

Or why the Big 12 has recently added multiple affiliates but not Missouri ? 

You seem to be in the know.  I am honestly interested to understand the reasoning ?

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11 minutes ago, Show_Me said:

Trying to understand why Cal Baptist is deemed a good addition to the Big 12 but Little Rock wasn't ?  

Or why the Big 12 has recently added multiple affiliates but not Missouri ? 

You seem to be in the know.  I am honestly interested to understand the reasoning ?

Was a close vote but the coaches said no. Some say afraid of letting a young John Smith type coach in the conference with a fully funded program with lots of backing.

Mizzu situation is complicated theyre controlled by the SEC. And the SEC didn't want them in the Big 12 unless something has recently changed. Both being power 5 conferences. MAC conference isnt a threat to the SEC in football and basketball. So unless something has changed at the SEC I don't see Mizzu going to the Big 12.

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11 hours ago, Show_Me said:

Little Rock in the PAC 12 & Cal Baptist in the Big 12.  OK.

With the imminent shuttering of the long time PAC wrestling program that is Stanford after this season the need to have added Cal Baptist should have been seen as a necessity to anyone with a brain in the PAC 12.   But since that does not appear to be the case they let Cal Baptist "walk" to the Big 12 instead.   If only the PAC 12 had administrators who A. gave a damn about the sport of wrestling and B. acted intelligently in order to sustain the sport of wrestling in the PAC 12.

Now, after Stanford closes down their wrestling program, the PAC 12 will be - basically - in the exact same situation that they were in before they added Little Rock.  Except instead of having three full PAC 12 schools involved in the sport of wrestling it will now be down to just Arizona State and Oregon State.

Can ANYONE show me a viable wrestling program that the PAC 12 can add after this season in order to have the minimum of six teams? 

 

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57 minutes ago, Bronco said:

With the imminent shuttering of the long time PAC wrestling program that is Stanford after this season the need to have added Cal Baptist should have been seen as a necessity to anyone with a brain in the PAC 12.   But since that does not appear to be the case they let Cal Baptist "walk" to the Big 12 instead.   If only the PAC 12 had administrators who A. gave a damn about the sport of wrestling and B. acted intelligently in order to sustain the sport of wrestling in the PAC 12.

Now, after Stanford closes down their wrestling program, the PAC 12 will be - basically - in the exact same situation that they were in before they added Little Rock.  Except instead of having three full PAC 12 schools involved in the sport of wrestling it will now be down to just Arizona State and Oregon State.

Can ANYONE show me a viable wrestling program that the PAC 12 can add after this season in order to have the minimum of six teams? 

 

Zeke Jones said publicly he was trying to recruit Mizzou to the PAC-12. I thought it was illogical even before the pandemic crushed AD budgets, it makes even less sense now. UNLESS! They do tri-duals at Oregon St., Az St. and Missouri yearly. 

There is zero reason to have yearly flights to Covallis, Tempe, Cal Poly and other places in the PAC12. It would cost a literal fortune. 

If I was creating an optimal Mizzou dual schedule that both maximizes competition and is also cost-effective it would look like this: 

1.) CKLV

2.) Illinois (Rivalry)

3.) Virginia Tech or Arizona St. (1 big trip where you could wrestle Az St. and hopefully another school or Virginia Tech & Virginia in one week) 

4.) Local in-state schools: Central Missouri, Lindenwood, Missouri Valley College.

5.) MAC Conference duals: SIUE, NIU, Central Michigan,  Ohio, Kent St., Buffalo. 

6.) Old Big12 Foes: Iowa St., Oklahoma St., Oklahoma or UNI. 

7.) South Beach Duals: Wyoming, Cornell, Lehigh and bottom-feeder Big Ten team. 

8.) One prime Big Ten School: Iowa, Ohio St., Michigan or Penn St. 

This equals around 18-20 duals and features the best of nearly every conference. Granted, this is the exact schedule Coach Smith has tried to put together outside of the Prime Big Ten School, because none of them will wrestle us. 

It also involves a maximum or 3 plane trips for the entire season. Moving forward, the sport of wrestling needs to keep the tri-quad-dual format along with extra matches. Places you can drive to are much, much cheaper for 20+ people than flying.

 

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4 hours ago, MizzouGrad said:

Do you see me blaming anyone? If the Big12 prefers Cal Baptist over Mizzou due to a conference switch, that is their right. It's not like Mizzou doesn't wrestle the best-of-the-best in the Big12 on a yearly basis. 

The real beef I have with conferences is how the Big Ten will barely wrestle out-of-conference in the last few years. From Mizzou to Iowa, it's 4 hours. Why doesn't Mizzou wrestle Iowa yearly? Mizzou wrestles Northern Iowa & Iowa St. on a yearly basis since Dresser got there. But for some reason, we can't wrestle Iowa. 

Same with Nebraska & Ohio St. We used to dual them yearly, but no more. The only Big Ten teams that will dual Mizzou are Michigan St., Purdue and Maryland.

 

IL/Mizzou annually kicks off the season with an outdoor meet

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