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Does Iowa recruit Iowa?

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1 hour ago, Major Kong said:

I have a question about Iowa recruiting - and it is not snark or criticism. Why do they have so few African American kids? Is it that kids think the culture of the program won't fit them? The coaches? Recruiting areas? Honestly wondering about it. I'm sure people on here have theories/explanations.

Wrestling in general is a very white bread sport already, especially compared to other comparable sports. I am not saying this to be controversial, it’s just an objective observation. Add in the fact that Iowa is not just Midwest like Chicago but out out in the metaphorical cornfields of the western Midwest. 
 

An extreme oversimplification. With plenty of caveats. It’s the shortest and least likely to start a dumpster fire. 
 

I do not think it’s because the brands don’t want any or don’t try to make them feel welcome either. Also the cornfield located programs already with multiple African American athletes(Nebraska, Iowa State) seem to be places the next set feel more comfortable going since they won’t be just the token member.

 

Again, this is an extreme oversimplification and simplest safest answer. I’m leaving out my more subjective personal opinions 

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2 hours ago, Major Kong said:

I have a question about Iowa recruiting - and it is not snark or criticism. Why do they have so few African American kids? Is it that kids think the culture of the program won't fit them? The coaches? Recruiting areas? Honestly wondering about it. I'm sure people on here have theories/explanations.

Never heard of Joe Williams?  ;_;

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1 hour ago, The Downington Destroyer said:

"Outside of Philly and Pittsburgh there is no difference between Iowa and PA." Are you kidding?  Erie County, Johnstown, Cambria County, Harrisburg, and the Lehigh Valley and Washington County are wrestling 'hot beds' quite far from both Pittsburgh and Philadelphia.  These areas are wrestling cradles from where the likes of Jimmy Carr, Nate Carr, Carlton Haselrig, Bobby Weaver, Ed Ruth, Quentin Wright, Jordan Oliver, Keith Gavin, Darian Cruz, Wade Schalles, Pat Santoro, Rob Koll,  Greg Jones and Jack Cuvo originated. Coleman Scott and Cary Kolat are from outlying areas that are not considered Pittsburgh.  Nolf, Megaludis and Lee are from areas 30-50 miles east of Pittsburgh.  Kurt Angle is from Pittsburgh! He grew up in Keystone Oaks and transferred to Mt. Lebanon High School. In fact, in 2012, 12 former PA wrestlers qualified for the Olympic Trials.  Coleman Scott and Drew Headlee (Waynesburg), Jordan Oliver (Easton), Cary Kolat (Jefferson Morgan), Keith Gavin (Lehigh Valley), Quentin Wright (Bald Eagle), Ed Ruth (Susquehanna Township), and Justin Grant (Kutztown) are all from somewhere other than Pittsburgh or Philly. PA would crush Iowa in a dual with or without their WPIAL kids.  

I think this has officially gone over your head.  I am describing that once you are out of the cities in PA (where I live), that once you take away the mountains, there is little difference between Iowa and PA (because Iowa is flat) in regards to suburbia and rural farms towns.  Meaning....once you eliminate our inner city populations, there is very little difference in populations between the two states but PA grows their talents in lower populated areas totally unrelated to their city populations so someone from Iowa cannot use the argument that PA's population gives them a direct advantage in producing more elite talent.

Which is why I also argued if population size mattered, then Cali would be the king of HS wrestling which at times, they are lucky to be top 5 most years.  Cali is almost 5 times the population of NJ and I would take NJ anyday.

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6 minutes ago, ionel said:

Never heard of Joe Williams?  ;_;

I'm sure originally since Iowa likes to recruit Iowa combined with the fact that the black population of Iowa is only 3.6% that you would see few black Iowa wrestlers.

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14 hours ago, The Downington Destroyer said:

How would you know that DeSanto is not or has not worked out with Young Guns?  Young Guns has sites in Michigan, Illinois, Pittsburgh, Altoona, Pitt-Johnstown, Franklin-Regional and Latrobe.  Driving 3-4 hours one way to work out with elite partners is common for kids these days. 

The ACC used to be a graveyard for  PA stars.  Now the PA kids are having success at Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina and NC State. And these programs are competitive. That doesn't mean that Iowa isn't recruiting PA or Young Guns kids. 

Yes Megaludis was a Young Guns kid. Megaludis was a member of Young Guns because their first training site was in his high school's wrestling room.  But that does not deter from the fact that Iowa is pulling kids from Young Guns.  

Coaches don't need to watch the PIAA tournament, but they do.  And they use Flo for its access.

We are getting off topic here.  The question or title of this thread is about Iowa recruiting Iowa? Yeah it does but my point is the Brands would not enjoy the same level of success as Gable did without PA 'feeding' Iowa University.  

Also, I can say this objectively and that is Flo has a mid-western bias.  Two or their founders are Northwestern and Mizzou boys.  And, I know they purposely are overindulgent with their coverage of Mizzou, Oklahoma State and Iowa programs. 

Just curious, when was the last time you saw the Dapper Dan Wrestling Classic?  It is far from pointless. It's one of the greatest shows on earth.  And, my point about 1969 is that wrestling enthusiasts in the commonwealth of PA  have after 50 years,  lost the privilege of watching their own high school state wrestling tournament.  Someone is benefitting from this decision and it's not PA high school wrestling fans. 

 

Then why did Desanto go to Drexel originally?  Wasn't Lee a major part to his transfer to Iowa?  I'm not saying Desanto didn't show up for a practice here and there at YG, but he was not a regular.  Same with the Hidlay's.  Sure they were there from time to time but their main club coach is now the director of operations at NC State.

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14 hours ago, The Downington Destroyer said:

How would you know that DeSanto is not or has not worked out with Young Guns?  Young Guns has sites in Michigan, Illinois, Pittsburgh, Altoona, Pitt-Johnstown, Franklin-Regional and Latrobe.  Driving 3-4 hours one way to work out with elite partners is common for kids these days. 

 

Pretty sure DeSanto didn’t go to Young Guns.  Regardless, Iowa didn’t recruit him anyway unless you count Lee telling him to go there after DeSanto beat him, and he still went to Drexel first anyway.

Edited by 1032004

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58 minutes ago, LJB said:

look at the finalists of the last NCAA D1 championships... tell me what you see...

(you is totally hypothetical and not in response to any specific adult or child on this bbs)

You wouldn’t say that the majority of wrestlers at all levels aren’t white? Or does it offend you to have a basic data point said? 

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8 minutes ago, jp157 said:

You wouldn’t say that the majority of wrestlers at all levels aren’t white? Or does it offend you to have a basic data point said? 

quit being you... try to be better...

my point is that 85% of the finalists would be considered white, which, is significantly higher than the percentage of the population of the US as a whole...

so, Iowa only having 4 kids of color on their roster is not at all an indication of anything other than the overall makeup of successful wrestlers on the D1 level...

but, it is clearly perceived differently...

not why those numbers are what they are is an entirely different debate, but, the fact remains the Iowa wrestling room is entirely indicative of the successful wrestling in general...

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Just now, LJB said:

quit being you... try to be better...

my point is that 85% of the finalists would be considered white, which, is significantly higher than the percentage of the population of the US as a whole...

so, Iowa only having 4 kids of color on their roster is not at all an indication of anything other than the overall makeup of successful wrestlers on the D1 level...

but, it is clearly perceived differently...

not why those numbers are what they are is an entirely different debate, but, the fact remains the Iowa wrestling room is entirely indicative of the successful wrestling in general...

I actually don’t see anything in the Iowa roster. I think the reasons I gave are plenty enough. 
 

Your answer for once is clear and concise. and answered my question. 
 

and the debate over why the numbers exist is too tiresome for today. And too likely to be derailed

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3 minutes ago, jp157 said:

I actually don’t see anything in the Iowa roster. I think the reasons I gave are plenty enough. 
 

Your answer for once is clear and concise. and answered my question. 
 

and the debate over why the numbers exist is too tiresome for today. And too likely to be derailed

my answers are always clear and concise... your attitude towards them are not as evidenced by your defensive posture and the assumption i was taking a 180^ approach...

that's on you as per...

again...

quit being you... be better...

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33 minutes ago, LJB said:

my answers are always clear and concise... your attitude towards them are not as evidenced by your defensive posture and the assumption i was taking a 180^ approach...

that's on you as per...

again...

quit being you... be better...

Lol you have a marked tendency not give direct answers unless pressed. Usually giving insults instead. 
 

I asked a question to make sure I understood what you were saying.. if I wanted to bait it or make it a bigger deal or some such thing I would’ve said it differently.. 

You really need to get over the fact that I dare to think things about you as a person you don’t like

 

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1 minute ago, jp157 said:

Lol you have a marked tendency not give direct answers unless pressed. Usually giving insults instead. 
 

I asked a question to make sure I understood what you were saying.. if I wanted to bait it or make it a bigger deal or some such thing I would’ve said it differently.. 

You really need to get over the fact that I dare to think things about you as a person you don’t like

 

i don't need to get over anything... i answer directly whenever i choose... as i see appropriate... mostly depending on the respect i have for the person im answering...

you lie... present assumptions and false pretenses... are super defensive... and clearly ruled by an ego that is not getting stroked enough right now...

you are not an idiot, but, just a young kid who hasn't experienced enough life to present yourself the way you do...

 

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25 minutes ago, LJB said:

i don't need to get over anything... i answer directly whenever i choose... as i see appropriate... mostly depending on the respect i have for the person im answering...

you lie... present assumptions and false pretenses... are super defensive... and clearly ruled by an ego that is not getting stroked enough right now...

you are not an idiot, but, just a young kid who hasn't experienced enough life to present yourself the way you do...

 

Sigh, okie dokie buddy 

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5 hours ago, Major Kong said:

I have a question about Iowa recruiting - and it is not snark or criticism. Why do they have so few African American kids? Is it that kids think the culture of the program won't fit them? The coaches? Recruiting areas? Honestly wondering about it. I'm sure people on here have theories/explanations.

To me the biggest problem with asking this type of question about a wrestling program, it is is WAY to big of a conversation for something as small as Iowa wrestling (I say that in terms of relation to huge topics of overall societal norms and demographics in the US).  By asking it in such a narrow format it can only lead to unproductive conversations because inevitably people will try to use broad strokes for a very very complicated and large conversation and try to attach it to such a small thing as Iowa wrestling.  And usually it becomes divisive based on these broad generalizations that people will usually take offense to, or someone will take offense to the mere fact that someone disagrees with them.  I would love to have a truly open conversation with someone, who is truly willing to listen to others opinions and views and not be set in a preconceived way of thinking, on the topic of race and race relations in the US.  However, to me again, a more appropriate question for on here would be do people think Iowa and/or the Brands are racists...I think we can all collectively agree with a resounding NO...the university and the Brands are not (and I can't even stand the guys).  Have there been racist people that have attended Iowa and/or been on the wrestling team, I have no doubt, but that does not equal that overall the university and/or wrestling program are racists.  All my opinions...

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7 minutes ago, dman115 said:

To me the biggest problem with asking this type of question about a wrestling program, it is is WAY to big of a conversation for something as small as Iowa wrestling (I say that in terms of relation to huge topics of overall societal norms and demographics in the US).  By asking it in such a narrow format it can only lead to unproductive conversations because inevitably people will try to use broad strokes for a very very complicated and large conversation and try to attach it to such a small thing as Iowa wrestling.  And usually it becomes divisive based on these broad generalizations that people will usually take offense to, or someone will take offense to the mere fact that someone disagrees with them.  I would love to have a truly open conversation with someone, who is truly willing to listen to others opinions and views and not be set in a preconceived way of thinking, on the topic of race and race relations in the US.  However, to me again, a more appropriate question for on here would be do people think Iowa and/or the Brands are racists...I think we can all collectively agree with a resounding NO...the university and the Brands are not (and I can't even stand the guys).  Have there been racist people that have attended Iowa and/or been on the wrestling team, I have no doubt, but that does not equal that overall the university and/or wrestling program are racists.  All my opinions...

100% agree...

asking the question in regards to only the Iowa program shows a clear agenda...

if there is racism in wrestling, it damn sure isn't just a one school related thing nor just a one race thing... 

 

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31 minutes ago, dman115 said:

To me the biggest problem with asking this type of question about a wrestling program, it is is WAY to big of a conversation for something as small as Iowa wrestling (I say that in terms of relation to huge topics of overall societal norms and demographics in the US).  By asking it in such a narrow format it can only lead to unproductive conversations because inevitably people will try to use broad strokes for a very very complicated and large conversation and try to attach it to such a small thing as Iowa wrestling.  And usually it becomes divisive based on these broad generalizations that people will usually take offense to, or someone will take offense to the mere fact that someone disagrees with them.  I would love to have a truly open conversation with someone, who is truly willing to listen to others opinions and views and not be set in a preconceived way of thinking, on the topic of race and race relations in the US.  However, to me again, a more appropriate question for on here would be do people think Iowa and/or the Brands are racists...I think we can all collectively agree with a resounding NO...the university and the Brands are not (and I can't even stand the guys).  Have there been racist people that have attended Iowa and/or been on the wrestling team, I have no doubt, but that does not equal that overall the university and/or wrestling program are racists.  All my opinions...

It’s why I made my answer as general as possible. 

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Just now, jp157 said:

It’s why I made my answer as general as possible. 

Oh yeah...definitely...this wasn't directed at you...or anyone really...just my simple mind ramblings on a Wed afternoon when I should be working.

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Just now, dman115 said:

Oh yeah...definitely...this wasn't directed at you...or anyone really...just my simple mind ramblings on a Wed afternoon when I should be working.

Fair enough. I have definite thoughts on the matter but the dumpster fire it would start isn’t worth it

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48 minutes ago, LJB said:

exactly...

run along, son...

You keep assuming I’m so young. You whine and whine and whine and whine, that I’ve made incorrect assumptions about you.. or better yet say I’m a liar because I don’t take you at your word..  

yet you keep saying incorrect things about me. 
 

You really aren’t used to people falling for your whole routine are you. The most hilarious part about all this is that you’re the one with the invective laden rants, attempting to be condescending, and the one being toxic during this thread. 
 

The most hilarious part about the whole thing that set you off this thread. Is your disproportionate response to me asking the basic question of if you had ever participated in training so heavily from a young age to speak with such “authority”. Yeah I threw in the jab about asking if you wrestled.. but I also specifically asked about other sports to make clear I was looking for an answer. So your disproportionate response and inability to graciously accept that I’ve  acknowledged some of your points is making me kinda feel bad.

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