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Does Iowa recruit Iowa?

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Just now, Drake_Mallard said:

I have spent the last how many posts trying to get you to discuss the topic. Why cant you?

you are a tenacious little fella... i'lll give you that...

but...

i already have one of you nipping at my heels... i really don't need another...

go back and read what i have already posted... if you still need help, call a hotline?

 

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Just now, LJB said:

you are a tenacious little fella... i'lll give you that...

but...

i already have one of you nipping at my heels... i really don't need another...

go back and read what i have already posted... if you still need help, call a hotline?

 

Jesus dude... i am seriously just trying to talk about the topic. You have a problem.

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2 minutes ago, Drake_Mallard said:

Jesus dude... i am seriously just trying to talk about the topic. You have a problem.

i do not...

i have already relayed my thoughts...

you were offended...

what more is there to go on about?

 

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i will leave this thread with this...

TJ and his club put 24 athletes in the state finals of iowa last weekend... of those he had 13 state champs...

what he is doing in that state is undeniable...

the club system in this country is undeniable because it works...

i fully support anyone whining to take some personal initiative and create a better system...

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14 minutes ago, Drake_Mallard said:

Jesus dude... i am seriously just trying to talk about the topic. You have a problem.

The only way to get direct answers from him is to make him made or challenge his expertise in a way it triggers past needs to prove it

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4 minutes ago, LJB said:

i will leave this thread with this...

TJ and his club put 24 athletes in the state finals of iowa last weekend... of those he had 13 state champs...

what he is doing in that state is undeniable...

the club system in this country is undeniable because it works...

i fully support anyone whining to take some personal initiative and create a better system...

Im not anti-Sebolt. Im against the complete abandonment of community clubs.

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6 minutes ago, LJB said:

i will leave this thread with this...

TJ and his club put 24 athletes in the state finals of iowa last weekend... of those he had 13 state champs...

what he is doing in that state is undeniable...

the club system in this country is undeniable because it works...

i fully support anyone whining to take some personal initiative and create a better system...

 But any suggestion was claimed to be backing the lowest common denominator.. soooo yeah

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8 minutes ago, Drake_Mallard said:

Im not anti-Sebolt. Im against the complete abandonment of community clubs.

Then by all means do something about it…

Whining on a message board about being made fun of is just… Well… Whining on a message board...

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2 minutes ago, Drake_Mallard said:

Im not anti-Sebolt. Im against the complete abandonment of community clubs.

The crux of this issue is that people don’t understand that there can be both. To do so will take initiatives to get quality coaching spread out. 
 

Things as simple as making the effort to help younger coaches with understanding with handling the non technique/wrestling side of wrestling so they don’t stop coaching because they had no idea how to handle those aspects would make a big difference.

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36 minutes ago, LJB said:

i will leave this thread with this...

TJ and his club put 24 athletes in the state finals of iowa last weekend... of those he had 13 state champs...

what he is doing in that state is undeniable...

the club system in this country is undeniable because it works...

i fully support anyone whining to take some personal initiative and create a better system...

How long has Sebolt’s club been around?

I thought part of the reason for the thread is the claim Iowa’s talent at least at one point dropped off.   While it seems he is producing some nationally-ranked talent now, were his guys still dominating when many were saying Iowa HS talent was down?

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1 minute ago, 1032004 said:

How long has Sebolt’s club been around?

I thought part of the reason for the thread is the claim Iowa’s talent at least at one point dropped off.   While it seems he is producing some nationally-ranked talent now, were his guys still dominating when many were saying Iowa HS talent was down?

Iowa 100% fell off...

TJs first round of club kids are now at the HS senior/college freshmen age... 

he is changing Iowa wrestling...

Carew has a club that is producing some talent as well...

it should be celebrated and not bemoaned... 

 

 

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3 hours ago, LJB said:

Then by all means do something about it…

Whining on a message board about being made fun of is just… Well… Whining on a message board...

Ummm... I have. I coached for years. I coached youth clubs. I coached freestyle. 

During that time I noticed that a lot of little kid local powers were no longer in existence. I was in a metro area where things stayed pretty steady, but you didnt see the mass collection of kids like lil ehawks who would come from a ****ty small town in nwest Iowa and tear through brackets. Instead the clubs bring tough kids, but much fewer. 

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2 hours ago, LJB said:

TJs first round of club kids are now at the HS senior/college freshmen age... 

he is changing Iowa wrestling...

Carew has a club that is producing some talent as well...

it should be celebrated and not bemoaned... 

No one is actually bemoaning their success...

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11 hours ago, uncle bernard said:

Desanto is not a young guns guy. He's from the complete other side of the state.

Why is the PA thing supposed to be an own? "Iowa wouldn't be nearly as good if they didn't sign a bunch of elite blue chip recruits?" Didn't realize it was cheating to recruit out of state. Might want to tell Cael. 7/10 of his starting lineup is from out of state (8 if you count Bartlett as AZ).

It was never stated that DeSanto was a Young Gun.  Just that he worked out with one of them (Spenser Lee) and was pulled in Iowa's direction by YG's influence. And there is nothing wrong with that.  Why would DeSanto transfer to Penn State when RBY is there?  As far as being from the other side of the state, it's not uncommon for kids these days to travel 2-4 hours to work out with elite clubs.  Young Guns has sites in Michigan, Illinois, Pittsburgh, Altoona, Johnstown, and other areas east of Pittsburgh.   I know for a fact that after DeSanto beat Lee at states, the two met at and trained together during the summer.  Secondly, the question is not about cheating.  Nobody is cheating because they recruit out of state.  The answer to the question at hand is "yes Iowa continues to recruit Iowa" however, without the 'PA 5' they are no better than Nebraska or Michigan.  It is interesting that Lee, DeSanto, Murin, Young and Kemerer chose Iowa.  Maybe the overriding reason was Suriano, RBY, Nick Lee, Jason Nolf and Mark Hall. 

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20 hours ago, Boompa said:

I think this has officially gone over your head.  I am describing that once you are out of the cities in PA (where I live), that once you take away the mountains, there is little difference between Iowa and PA (because Iowa is flat) in regards to suburbia and rural farms towns.  Meaning....once you eliminate our inner city populations, there is very little difference in populations between the two states but PA grows their talents in lower populated areas totally unrelated to their city populations so someone from Iowa cannot use the argument that PA's population gives them a direct advantage in producing more elite talent.

Which is why I also argued if population size mattered, then Cali would be the king of HS wrestling which at times, they are lucky to be top 5 most years.  Cali is almost 5 times the population of NJ and I would take NJ anyday.

If anything 'officially' went over my head it's because these assumption(s) are unclear and unfounded.  Population can affect a talent pool but does not always affect a talent pool. Part of the reason that Cali, Illinois, PA, NY and NJ produce high caliber talent is because of their higher populations.  That is not the only reason.  In fact, increased numbers increase a certain probability.  The question here is  "Does Iowa Recruit Iowa?" My answer is  Yes, Iowa recruits Iowa but would be nothing more than Nebraska, Michigan, Ohio State or Illinois had they not pulled Lee, DeSanto, Murin, Young and Kemerer from the glorious Commonwealth of PA. I am sharing what I think.  You keep telling me with complete certainty that "I am wrong, or your points are 'officially going over my head." Whatever. It is conceivable that Stritmatter influenced these kids. If Stritmatter steered the PA 5 or 4 to Iowa, there is nothing wrong with that.  That would have been good advice. Why would Stritmatter suggest to Lee, DeSanto, Murin, Young and Kemerer to go to PSU (if that option was on the table, which is was) when Suriano, RBY, Nick Lee, Jason Nolf  were there? Iowa has benefitted from PA's rich talent pool.  

Edited by The Downington Destroyer

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9 hours ago, Drake_Mallard said:

Ummm... I have. I coached for years. I coached youth clubs. I coached freestyle. 

During that time I noticed that a lot of little kid local powers were no longer in existence. I was in a metro area where things stayed pretty steady, but you didnt see the mass collection of kids like lil ehawks who would come from a ****ty small town in nwest Iowa and tear through brackets. Instead the clubs bring tough kids, but much fewer. 

sounds to me like the "grassroots clubs" in Iowa need to step up their game to remain competitive...

and if they can no longer remain competitive with the higher level of wrestling that is available in the club system, then they were never really good in the first place and only benefitted from a lower level of wrestling that was prevalent before someone took some personal initiative and decided to raise iowa wrestling up to national standards...

again...

i fully support you actually attempting to make a difference instead of whining about being made fun of on this bbs...

this goes for all...

instead of anonymous grandstanding, go out and do something to make whatever offends you better...

 

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9 hours ago, Drake_Mallard said:

Ummm... I have. I coached for years. I coached youth clubs. I coached freestyle. 

During that time I noticed that a lot of little kid local powers were no longer in existence. I was in a metro area where things stayed pretty steady, but you didnt see the mass collection of kids like lil ehawks who would come from a ****ty small town in nwest Iowa and tear through brackets. Instead the clubs bring tough kids, but much fewer. 

sounds to me like the "grassroots clubs" in Iowa need to step up their game to remain competitive...

and if they can no longer remain competitive with the higher level of wrestling that is available in the club system, then they were never really good in the first place and only benefitted from a lower level of wrestling that was prevalent before someone took some personal initiative and decided to raise iowa wrestling up to national standards...

again...

i fully support you actually attempting to make a difference instead of whining about being made fun of on this bbs...

this goes for all...

instead of anonymous grandstanding, go out and do something to make whatever offends you better...

 

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59 minutes ago, LJB said:

"grassroots clubs" in Iowa need to step up their game to remain competitive...

I merely provided an observation to answer why Iowa has fallen. I am not saying how to fix anything because the problems extend beyond just wrestling and frankly, I dont know how to save dying communities.

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1 hour ago, LJB said:

and if they can no longer remain competitive with the higher level of wrestling that is available in the club system, then they were never really good in the first place and only benefitted from a lower level of wrestling that was prevalent before someone took some personal initiative and decided to raise iowa wrestling up to national standards...

Iowa is falling in standards though. I think Sebolt does a great job. I am not against what he does. I dont think all clubs are great though and some of them do damage in my opinion. If every club was the same as Sebolt's we'd be better off but they aren't 

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6 hours ago, Drake_Mallard said:

Iowa is falling in standards though. I think Sebolt does a great job. I am not against what he does. I dont think all clubs are great though and some of them do damage in my opinion. If every club was the same as Sebolt's we'd be better off but they aren't 

Which specifically do damage? I’m curious if it’s similar to what I’ve seen elsewhere?

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9 hours ago, The Downington Destroyer said:

It was never stated that DeSanto was a Young Gun.  Just that he worked out with one of them (Spenser Lee) and was pulled in Iowa's direction by YG's influence. And there is nothing wrong with that.  Why would DeSanto transfer to Penn State when RBY is there?  As far as being from the other side of the state, it's not uncommon for kids these days to travel 2-4 hours to work out with elite clubs.  Young Guns has sites in Michigan, Illinois, Pittsburgh, Altoona, Johnstown, and other areas east of Pittsburgh.   I know for a fact that after DeSanto beat Lee at states, the two met at and trained together during the summer.  Secondly, the question is not about cheating.  Nobody is cheating because they recruit out of state.  The answer to the question at hand is "yes Iowa continues to recruit Iowa" however, without the 'PA 5' they are no better than Nebraska or Michigan.  It is interesting that Lee, DeSanto, Murin, Young and Kemerer chose Iowa.  Maybe the overriding reason was Suriano, RBY, Nick Lee, Jason Nolf and Mark Hall. 

Lol, yes you did. You included Desanto in a list of other young guns guys and claimed they were influenced by their "club coach." You've now been informed that Strittmatter was not Desanto's club coach, so take the L.

Also, Spencer and Desanto were training together that summer? Seems strange considering Lee was coming off ACL surgery and wasn't cleared to wrestle until that fall. By their own accounts, Lee befriended Desanto on the awards stand and coached him at Dapper Dan and then reached out and recruited him when he left Drexel. That's not a conspiracy.

Also again, it's not a gotcha to say "without their best wrestlers, Iowa wouldn't be good." Duh. Without Howard, RBY, Lee, Bartlett, Berge, Lee, Brooks, and Kerk Penn State would be far worse than Nebraska or Michigan. What point do you think you're proving?

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27 minutes ago, jp157 said:

Which specifically do damage? I’m curious if it’s similar to what I’ve seen elsewhere?

Heres an example. We had a kid on our high school team. He was a stud, but he was developed in our club and his dad was very involved with that club.The plus side of that was when he got to high school the whole room was solid. It was kind of funny because a local club coach constantly offered to allow this kid to come there for free and our kid went maybe 5 times in 4 years. Then the club coach plastered our kid on his sight along with a few other kids in the area who to my knowledge didnt regularly go either.

It did work for him tho. I started seeing a lot more kids in surrounding communities go there and because of the lack of interests in the local clubs by the talented kids and their dads we started seeing less quality teams. The thing that sucks is I go to high school tourneys and dont see the fruits of this. Not everyone is like Sebolt. Ive seen Sebolt over the years and he is a great coach. Im not really talking about him. It seems like everyone is looking to buy their kids way to the top instead of developing the local teams, which to me is an unproven formula.

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1 hour ago, Drake_Mallard said:

Heres an example. We had a kid on our high school team. He was a stud, but he was developed in our club and his dad was very involved with that club.The plus side of that was when he got to high school the whole room was solid. It was kind of funny because a local club coach constantly offered to allow this kid to come there for free and our kid went maybe 5 times in 4 years. Then the club coach plastered our kid on his sight along with a few other kids in the area who to my knowledge didnt regularly go either.

It did work for him tho. I started seeing a lot more kids in surrounding communities go there and because of the lack of interests in the local clubs by the talented kids and their dads we started seeing less quality teams. The thing that sucks is I go to high school tourneys and dont see the fruits of this. Not everyone is like Sebolt. Ive seen Sebolt over the years and he is a great coach. Im not really talking about him. It seems like everyone is looking to buy their kids way to the top instead of developing the local teams, which to me is an unproven formula.

Yeah the worst by product of the people underneath the Izzys Poetas Sebolts  AWA Young Guns level clubs is the poaching rather than coaching mentality. 
 

It’s also lazy as hell

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