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Where's BIG10 brackets?

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46 minutes ago, Mphillips said:

Hoffman was 26-10 compared to Pelusi who was 20-15, but I'm with ya.

Edit: FWIW, I'm not bothered by Kerk's seed. 

Eh, Hoffman spent the first half of the season at 184 (although of course that's where 7 of the 10 losses happened), all of his HWT matches were in open tournaments against mostly backups and non-D1 guys. At first glance I'm not sure if he beat a D1 starter, and in addition to Kerk, he lost twice to Lehigh's backup.

Edited by 1032004

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5 minutes ago, Mphillips said:

Then why would he be "alright" with your scenario? I must be confused as usual...

He had a problem with posters (with worse wrestling credentials) calling other wrestlers "bad."  So I went to the extreme logical conclusion that the best credentialed college wrestler would be able to call one of the second best credentialed college wrestlers "bad.'"

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1 minute ago, jchapman said:

He had a problem with posters (with worse wrestling credentials) calling other wrestlers "bad."  So I went to the extreme logical conclusion that the best credentialed college wrestler would be able to call one of the second best credentialed college wrestlers "bad.'"

Gotcha. Need a roadmap for that.

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I was confused along with mphillips, but sort of see what you were trying to say now.

I agree with the guys premise though...and have said it multiple times...people tend to post things on a forum they wouldn't say face to face because they can stay anonymous.  Which includes being critical of guys that have 100X more talent then them.  Now...having said that...I am here anonymously and am critical of people that are 100X more talented them me...soooo

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4 minutes ago, jchapman said:

He had a problem with posters (with worse wrestling credentials) calling other wrestlers "bad."  So I went to the extreme logical conclusion that the best credentialed college wrestler would be able to call one of the second best credentialed college wrestlers "bad.'"

So to be clear, are you agreeing that we’re not allowed to call winless D1 wrestlers “bad”?

It’s funny when I said that I actually almost put “(even though they’re much better than me)”...just figured that was understood.

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7 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Eh, Hoffman spent the first half of the season at 184 (although of course that's where 7 of the 10 losses happened), all of his HWT matches were in open tournaments against mostly backups and non-D1 guys. At first glance I'm not sure if he beat a D1 starter, and in addition to Kerk, he lost twice to Lehigh's backup.

Okay.

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3 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

So to be clear, are you agreeing that we’re not allowed to call winless D1 wrestlers “bad”?

It’s funny when I said that I actually almost put “(even though they’re much better than me)”...just figured that was understood.

Ok, sorry for being so obtuse.  I think calling a winless B1G wrestler "bad" is ok, because they are "bad" relative to their level of competition.  And yes, just because I didn't compete and have success at the B1G level, I am still capable of making that value judgement.  It is rediculous to think that you have to have had elite athletic talent in order to make judgments on athletic talent and outcomes.  Don't we make judgements every day on topics we have no personal exoerience with (e.g. murder is wrong, even though I have never murdered or had a loved one murdered)?

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Of course you can call a D1 wrestler bad-- regardless of whether you ever wrestled at all. The same way everyone in world calls an MLB player bad even they only played grade school softball. That the evaluation is relative to other college wrestlers is universally understood (or I guess universally minus a few posters here).

 

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2 hours ago, Housebuye said:

For Rivera, the argument is if you use prior seasons results, which is what they are clearly doing (for good reason), then Rivera’s performances at prior Big10s should be counted. Him being at a lower weight, which was actually much tougher, shouldn’t be overridden by someone just because they had success at a higher weight. 
  
I don’t actually agree Rivera should be one, but I get what Christian was saying. 
  
keep in mind there are no criteria for this, so they just need to be consistent within the current year. I think they did that, given that Kerklevit is clearly being given credit for his year last year

Yeah I think 141 is pretty much a coinflip for all 3 spots seeding-wise and it also gets dicey since Eierman didn't wrestle last year.   In my opinion (which obviously doesn't matter) 125 should have no bearing on 141 seeding.    133 can being just 1 weight below, and yes Rivera won B10's, but he didn't wrestle that many matches last year and really his only good wins were RBY and Gross (who he also lost to).  For that reason I agree with him at 3.    I would maybe lean towards Lee should be #1 because Eierman didn't wrestle last year, but I'm OK with Eierman there due to his NCAA results and previous win the last time he wrestled Lee in folkstyle.

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So on FRL today Bratke confirmed that he thinks Kerk should be ranked higher than Orndoff, but both he and Pyles said he should be seeded 13th.

Good thing they're not "journalists"...  (although to be fair, Willie also said he should be 13 but then admitted he didn't realize there were multiple winless guys)

 

So in addition to Kappes of Maryland, you have:

Streck: 1-5 this year (and 3-16 last year), only win this year 3-1 in SV vs. Kappes

Heyob: 1-4 this year (and 2-16 last year), only win this year 2-1 vs. Kappes

Keys: 2-4 this year, beat MSU's backup and did wrestle in the dual against NW where he wrestled against Brendan Devine who is not their guy for B10's and is 1-5 this year (with HIS only win coming 3-1 against Maryland's backup Connor Bowes, which was one of the only matches in Bowes' career where he didn't get pinned)

There is absolutely zero reason to put any of those 3 guys above Kerk, which would put him at 10 at the absolute worst, so in the same match he's in now.

 

Even still, after that, you have:

Colucci: 0-2 this year (and they have him behind Heyob anyway, but he at least has a decent win or two in his career)

Rebottaro: 1-4 this year, only win vs. Streck.   He was 17-16 last year though, but didn't really beat anyone decent)

So there could be a bad argument for these 2 to be ahead of Kerk, but it's not a very good one IMO.  The only guy with a good argument IMO for a better seed than Kerk is Orndorff.

 

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, CJE64 said:

I always find it funny reading you guys yammer...because its anonymous, you dont know who the poster is but you would think that all of you are returning NCAA AA’s...”most of these guys are pretty bad”...these are Big Ten wrestlers...are they really “bad”...again, I dont know the credentials of the posters but when so many cant figure out a basic twelve man bracket based on preseeds or dont know how the seeding criteria when critiquing, it makes me wonder.  before all of you start screaming, I recognize some of you had good careers and dont fall into my overview but man it would be interesting to see how much humility would creep in if the posters had to post their credentials before letting it rip. best time of the year, enjoy.

you don't have to be a former AA to see that there are some guys wrestling D1 right now that have no business being D1

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7 hours ago, nhs67 said:

There you go assuming.

Also, he has flopped/broke/cracked before.  On many occasions.

Isn't the simpler answer that he tweaked his knee when it was clearly taken against the joing (not dirty, just wrestling)? Do you think he wore a brace for fun?

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37 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

Isn't the simpler answer that he tweaked his knee when it was clearly taken against the joing (not dirty, just wrestling)? Do you think he wore a brace for fun?

You are aware that Brands thought he could have stayed out there and competed? Are we even discussing the same match? 

Here is the match I think we are talking about...

133 LBS: #2 Austin DeSanto (Iowa) vs. #4 Roman Bravo-Young (Penn State) | 2020 B1G Wrestling - Bing video

Here is how this conversation played out in real time...

DeSanto "No Mas" Against RBY - Page 2 - College Wrestling - TheMat.com Forums

 

I'll say this, Doctors from all over the world should examine DeSanto's knee because it is like a miracle knee. He's limping every time when he gets near the inner circle coming back to center, but the whistle blows and he can wrestle like its 100 percent. At the end of the match he does the whole No Mas thing, then gets up and walks off the mat pretty much unencumbered. 

Edited by TBar1977

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3 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

You are aware that Brands thought he could have stayed out there and competed? Are we discussing the same match? 

Here is the match I think we are talking about...

133 LBS: #2 Austin DeSanto (Iowa) vs. #4 Roman Bravo-Young (Penn State) | 2020 B1G Wrestling - Bing video

Here is how this conversation played out in real time...

DeSanto "No Mas" Against RBY - Page 2 - College Wrestling - TheMat.com Forums

Which is obviously why he kept him out of the lineup for 2 weeks afterwards. No injury at all. You've cracked this one wide open TBar.

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6 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

Which is obviously why he kept him out of the lineup for 2 weeks afterwards. No injury at all. You've cracked this one wide open TBar.

Thank you. I appreciate it when my detective work gets even the faintest of recognition. 

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1 minute ago, Gantry said:

Sounds like it's related to weight and not injury.

Well, Rivera came from NU and took his spot so now he's stuck with it. Can't make 133, can't go to 141 because Rivera took that option away. 

Btw, everyone at FRL thinks Rivera will win 141. They made Eierman and Nick Lee seem like mediocre wrestlers compared to SeaBass. 

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12 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Well, Rivera came from NU and took his spot so now he's stuck with it. Can't make 133, can't go to 141 because Rivera took that option away. 

So Alvarez beats Aragona out for 141 if Rivera isn't there?

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12 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Well, Rivera came from NU and took his spot so now he's stuck with it. Can't make 133, can't go to 141 because Rivera took that option away. 

Btw, everyone at FRL thinks Rivera will win 141. They made Eierman and Nick Lee seem like mediocre wrestlers compared to SeaBass. 

The crazy thing is that there was talk over the summer of the plan being Alvarez/Suriano/Rivera at the first 3 weights, and that apparently came straight from Alvarez's mouth. I wonder if he kept growing or something. I don't remember hearing that 133 was a tough pull for him last year.

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