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Jimmy Cinnabon

"Seeds don't matter because you have to beat everyone to be champ"

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Seeds matter for everyone except the “all timers” like Nolf, Zain, Bo, Lee etc.

 

When there’s a bunch of good to great wrestlers in same bracket it absolutely makes a difference

 

Usually it comes down to 3 great wrestlers in the bracket. The one that doesn’t get the 1 seed has advantage of not having that “big test” in semis

 

 

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Seeds will play a part in determining who wins or loses, or at least how hard it will be. However, they have no real impact on how much fans will whine about them - that is strictly up to each individual how much they wish to invest in whining about bad draws for their favorite wrestlers. 

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1 hour ago, TBar1977 said:

Seeds will play a part in determining who wins or loses, or at least how hard it will be. However, they have no real impact on how much fans will whine about them - that is strictly up to each individual how much they wish to invest in whining about bad draws for their favorite wrestlers. 

You do realize your whining quotient against, compared to those you perceive as for, is roughly 37,965............

Edited by MSU158

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Just now, ShakaAloha said:

Seeds clearly matter.  That's why you got all those guys grumbling about Marinelli's tough draws in the other thread.

They matter most in the early rounds, where bonus points are crucial.  Now that they seed down to 33, getting that top 3 or 4 seed is HUGE.  Obviously the odds are best to get bonus off the 29-33 and 13-16 seeds.  Once you get down to 12 and under, it almost always seems to be infinitely harder to get those crucial extra points(unless you are freaks like Lee, Nolf, Nickal and Retherford).

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To me they matter...mostly because I like to see the 2 best wrestlers meet in the finals versus them meeting in the quarters or something.  I also think it matters in order to reward the wrestler with the best record/most consistency/ranking/etc. so they have a "better/easier" path to making it to the finals/placing matches.  More exciting for the fans and for the athletes.  My $0.02 anyway.

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2 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

Seeds will play a part in determining who wins or loses, or at least how hard it will be. However, they have no real impact on how much fans will whine about them - that is strictly up to each individual how much they wish to invest in whining about bad draws for their favorite wrestlers. 

Aren’t you the one very very insistently whining about and hyping up the “ages” of the teams?

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The Geary Invitational doesn't have seeding. It's common at the Geary tournament to see guys who finished #1 and #2 at state wrestling each other in the round of 16 or quarterfinals. It attracts lots of tough teams as well. Blair has participated at Geary multiple times in recent years. Brackets are determined through luck of the draw. My school didn't compete at Geary, we stuck with Tulsa area tourneys until regionals/state. 

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2 minutes ago, TobusRex said:

The Geary Invitational doesn't have seeding. It's common at the Geary tournament to see guys who finished #1 and #2 at state wrestling each other in the round of 16 or quarterfinals. It attracts lots of tough teams as well. Blair has participated at Geary multiple times in recent years. Brackets are determined through luck of the draw. My school didn't compete at Geary, we stuck with Tulsa area tourneys until regionals/state. 

You should try telling this to all of the coaches at the NCAA Championships and see how they feel.

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Seeding isn't all it's cracked up to be, either. I've always thought it should be random draw. If a guy is so good why should his way to the finals be made even easier by scheduling him against the weakest perceived opponents in each round? Don't get me wrong, I'm in favor of seeding from the viewpoint of wanting to see competitive matches in the finals, but there's a charm to not seeding as well. 

 

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1 minute ago, ShakaAloha said:

You should try telling this to all of the coaches at the NCAA Championships and see how they feel.

Those pricks can't even agree amongst each other :D Plus, how can they seed the best guys? The coaches have their good wrestlers duck good competition until conf/NCAAs. 

Edited by TobusRex

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7 minutes ago, TobusRex said:

Those pricks can't even agree amongst each other :D Plus, how can they seed the best guys? The coaches have their good wrestlers duck good competition until conf/NCAAs. 

True...some are worse than others lol

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Seeding isn't all it's cracked up to be, either. I've always thought it should be random draw. If a guy is so good why should his way to the finals be made even easier by scheduling him against the weakest perceived opponents in each round? Don't get me wrong, I'm in favor of seeding from the viewpoint of wanting to see competitive matches in the finals, but there's a charm to not seeding as well. 
 
The unseeded world/olympic brackets can be egregious. Of course it's a bigger deal with only 4 medals and no true wrestlebacks, but still, I'm not a fan.

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Just now, Crotalus said:
9 minutes ago, TobusRex said:
Seeding isn't all it's cracked up to be, either. I've always thought it should be random draw. If a guy is so good why should his way to the finals be made even easier by scheduling him against the weakest perceived opponents in each round? Don't get me wrong, I'm in favor of seeding from the viewpoint of wanting to see competitive matches in the finals, but there's a charm to not seeding as well. 
 

The unseeded world/olympic brackets can be egregious. Of course it's a bigger deal with only 4 medals and no true wrestlebacks, but still, I'm not a fan.

Isn't that how JB got screwed at the 2016 Olympics when he randomly drew the Russian in his 2nd match?

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Just now, Crotalus said:
9 minutes ago, TobusRex said:
Seeding isn't all it's cracked up to be, either. I've always thought it should be random draw. If a guy is so good why should his way to the finals be made even easier by scheduling him against the weakest perceived opponents in each round? Don't get me wrong, I'm in favor of seeding from the viewpoint of wanting to see competitive matches in the finals, but there's a charm to not seeding as well. 
 

The unseeded world/olympic brackets can be egregious. Of course it's a bigger deal with only 4 medals and no true wrestlebacks, but still, I'm not a fan.

International wrestling brackets infuriate me. I guess we see the results of non-seeding: guys who win world Silver medals and never sniff another medal again! 

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5 minutes ago, ShakaAloha said:

Isn't that how JB got screwed at the 2016 Olympics when he randomly drew the Russian in his 2nd match?

So if the Russian was better, wouldn't he have still beat JB whether it was the 2nd or 4th match?  If so, then brackets and draws are not really about the champ so to speak, but how far a wrestler can go and how high they can place before they hit someone that is just better. 

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43 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Nah, you get to have your facts too. 

You bring up old crap all the time buddy. Just out of curiosity. Have you coached at all? Or wrestled beyond high school?

Im actually genuinely curious.

It won’t affect my opinion of how well you know wrestling.. youve made your level pretty clear. I just want to know the level of your dunning-Kruger 

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1 hour ago, TobusRex said:

Seeding isn't all it's cracked up to be, either. I've always thought it should be random draw. If a guy is so good why should his way to the finals be made even easier by scheduling him against the weakest perceived opponents in each round? Don't get me wrong, I'm in favor of seeding from the viewpoint of wanting to see competitive matches in the finals, but there's a charm to not seeding as well. 

 

I think they should seed to the number of places and draw the rest.  8 guys and draws gets it done.  I can't hate the seeding to 33 enough. 

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9 hours ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Do people honestly believe this?

Yes - absolutely, 100% ! You hear this from wrestlers all the time - BECAUSE IT'S TRUE.

A wrestler's job, once the bracket is finished, is to ignore the seed's and beat everyone. Thus the wrestler quote "Seeds don't matter because you have to beat everyone to be champ".

It's the coaches job to attend seeding meetings, worry, debate, argue, and possibly finagle to get the best seeds. It's also the coaches job to throw bricks, argue with other coaches, schmooze the ref's, interpret rules in their favor, and even get kicked out of the gym if necessary.

I remember my true freshman year in college, beat out a senior to start the 1st dual of the year. I wanted to get involved in a 1st period dispute with the ref - until my coach made it clear that the dispute was his job. Mine was to focus on how I was going to beat this guy. I won that match and my coach never needed to remind me how that works again.

 

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I have a fairly ignoble seeding story. In 8th grade I was riding the bench behind a star wrestler on our team. I was too stubborn to drop to the next lower weight (where I'd have been a starter). I didn't like the guy starting at my weight (there was no love lost between us) so I challenged him every chance I could. He beat me the first 3 times we wrestled, but each time the gap closed. Finally the 4th ranking match I broke through and beat him. That weekend there was a big tournament in Okmulgee, and the coach got me seeded 4th based strictly on the results of my ranking match despite my 0-0 official record. The coach told me the guy I'd beaten out would've been at least a #2 seed. Long story short, I went 1-2 and didn't come close to sniffing a medal.  Anyway, the week after that disastrous tournament the other guy challenged ME, I pinned him in the first period and he quit the team to never wrestle again, lol. So, kind of a win anyway, lol. 

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