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Officiating Calls this post season...

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I'm trying to keep an eye on some calls that I don't seem to be seeing any more, and others that seem to be en vogue...

-What happened to fleeing the mat? That one isn't called anymore?

-What about the push out stall call? Another one that isn't as common nowadays?

-Locked hands?

-Spiral ride no-call? I also call this the "Sasso", or the "Tony Nelson"...this needs to be rung up as a stall but seldom is.

-The unwritten "last 30 seconds anyone can stall" rule...this needs to go. 

Any others?

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36 minutes ago, Welcome1 said:

I'm trying to keep an eye on some calls that I don't seem to be seeing any more, and others that seem to be en vogue...

-What happened to fleeing the mat? That one isn't called anymore?

-What about the push out stall call? Another one that isn't as common nowadays?

-Locked hands?

-Spiral ride no-call? I also call this the "Sasso", or the "Tony Nelson"...this needs to be rung up as a stall but seldom is.

-The unwritten "last 30 seconds anyone can stall" rule...this needs to go. 

Any others?

Can you elaborate on that one?

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55 minutes ago, Welcome1 said:

I'm trying to keep an eye on some calls that I don't seem to be seeing any more, and others that seem to be en vogue...

-What happened to fleeing the mat? That one isn't called anymore?

-What about the push out stall call? Another one that isn't as common nowadays?

-Locked hands?

-Spiral ride no-call? I also call this the "Sasso", or the "Tony Nelson"...this needs to be rung up as a stall but seldom is.

-The unwritten "last 30 seconds anyone can stall" rule...this needs to go. 

Any others?

1 point for fleeing is gone it's now a stall warning

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1 hour ago, Welcome1 said:

I'm trying to keep an eye on some calls that I don't seem to be seeing any more, and others that seem to be en vogue...

-What happened to fleeing the mat? That one isn't called anymore?

-What about the push out stall call? Another one that isn't as common nowadays?

-Locked hands?

-Spiral ride no-call? I also call this the "Sasso", or the "Tony Nelson"...this needs to be rung up as a stall but seldom is.

-The unwritten "last 30 seconds anyone can stall" rule...this needs to go. 

Any others?

The only one I see called with any regularity is locked hands. I find it impossible to see locked hands on a telecast, but I do see some refs squatting and getting in close like they are looking for it.

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1 hour ago, jp157 said:

I tip man is riding parallel with no boots in.. I do not care what the hell bottom is doing.. top is stalling.. just calling that properly would help.. lots

If bottom is just sitting there and nor moving his hips, I would imagine that he would deserve to be called before the top man.

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1 minute ago, AHamilton said:

If bottom is just sitting there and nor moving his hips, I would imagine that he would deserve to be called before the top man.

If top man is smothering parallel and not actually taking their hips off to run a turn. It is stalling. The offensive wrestler. The top man needs to be offensive 

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10 minutes ago, jp157 said:

If top man is smothering parallel and not actually taking their hips off to run a turn. It is stalling. The offensive wrestler. The top man needs to be offensive 

Are you a ref?  I believe the interpretation is that the bottom man needs to be trying SOMETHING or you look to him for stalling first.

Keep in mind, the top man is actively scoring by accruing RT.

Edited by AHamilton

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10 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

Are you a ref?  I believe the interpretation is that the bottom man needs to be trying SOMETHING or you look to him for stalling first.

Keep in mind, the top man is actively scoring by accruing RT.

Have you ever tried to effectively move when someone is stall riding parallel?

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You have to try! An effort would help.  What ride does he have in?  Are you familiar with a knee slide or a changeover? 

Or are talking if the bottom man is broken down?  In that case, I look for him to at least be wiggling his hips and attempting to hand fight.  If the broken down, defensive wrestler is actively demonstrating some sort of hip motion as if he wants to get out, then I would look at the top man.

But it absolutely does matter that the bottom man is doing something. Anything.

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6 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

You have to try! An effort would help.  What ride does he have in?  Are you familiar with a knee slide or a changeover? 

Or are talking if the bottom man is broken down?  In that case, I look for him to at least be wiggling his hips and attempting to hand fight.  If the broken down, defensive wrestler is actively demonstrating some sort of hip motion as if he wants to get out, then I would look at the top man.

But it absolutely does matter that the bottom man is doing something. Anything.

I’m aware of those wrestling moves.. the way it’s called now.. even if bottom man is attempting something... top man can ride parallel and put on a complete stall ride that never comes off the hips and or attempts a turn... and bottom man will be hit.. 

If top is riding parallel and not doing squat. The only acceptable time to to call bottom is if they just completely ball up

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47 minutes ago, jp157 said:

I’m aware of those wrestling moves.. the way it’s called now.. even if bottom man is attempting something... top man can ride parallel and put on a complete stall ride that never comes off the hips and or attempts a turn... and bottom man will be hit.. 

If top is riding parallel and not doing squat. The only acceptable time to to call bottom is if they just completely ball up

What if they do freestyle par terre, as some do against Spencer Lee?

 

Edited by AHamilton

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Just now, AHamilton said:

What if they do freestyle par terre, as some do against Spencer Lee?

They aren’t doing anything while he is clearly attempting to turn them and presenting himself? They’re stalling 

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9 hours ago, jp157 said:

They aren’t doing anything while he is clearly attempting to turn them and presenting himself? They’re stalling 

So, out of "it doesn't matter what the bottom guy is doing, if the top man is riding parallel, top is stalling, you have now identified TWO cases where the bottom man is stalling.  In situations where neither guy is doing much of anything, I look to hit the bottom guy first.  If It continues, the next one goes to the top guy.  A double stall on the mat doesn't really work for me, as the restart favors the bottom man.

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1 minute ago, AHamilton said:

So, out of "it doesn't matter what the bottom guy is doing, if the top man is riding parallel, top is stalling, you have now identified TWO cases where the bottom man is stalling.  In situations where neither guy is doing much of anything, I look to hit the bottom guy first.  If It continues, the next one goes to the top guy.  A double stall on the mat doesn't really work for me, as the restart favors the bottom man.

If that’s your opinion that’s fine. Just be ready to see more boring matches and fewer attempts to actually score and to just hang on

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11 hours ago, Welcome1 said:

See the post by Lunatic Fringe...

I see something entirely different.  I often see people who attempt zero offense during the course of the match expecting the ref to change the tune and award multiple stalls for the other guy blocking out multiple attacks.  They often get it, which is a cryin' shame.

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16 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

In situations where neither guy is doing much of anything, I look to hit the bottom guy first.  If It continues, the next one goes to the top guy.  A double stall on the mat doesn't really work for me, as the restart favors the bottom man.

Why?  Why do you look to the bottom guy first?  And then hit the top guy if literally the same situation happens?  That inconsistency is why fans get annoyed at how stalling is called.

That's double stalling.

BTW, I don't see anything in the NCAA rule book about "actively scoring."  It says "sustain active wrestling."  A parallel spiral ride or something similar isn't really "active wrestling."  In general, I think stalling should be called more often on the top guy than it is currently.  

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Not college, but we had this HS drama at State in Nebraska.  https://omaha.com/sports/high-school/rubek-scottsbluffs-paul-garcia-is-34th-wrestler-in-nebraska-history-to-win-four-state-titles/article_fb900d2c-73f2-11eb-a2c6-4b856a275f5c.html

Not sure if it is behind a paywall. The gist is it was 0-0 through regulation and the eventual losing wrestler was pretty much on top for the last two periods.  In the overtime period, he was warned about incorrect starting position and eventually penalized a point. That wrestler is deaf without his cochlear implant and did not realize he was down until the match came to an end.  The winning wrestler stated that he figured his opponent did not realize the situation so he played it up in the bottom a bit to make it seem like he was trying to get up when he was content to stay down.

(I am not as familiar with the rules, but it is my understanding the ruling may have been correct, but seldom called?  Some also felt the winner may have been guilty of stalling from the bottom at times.)

Edited by MonagFam

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55 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Why?  Why do you look to the bottom guy first?  And then hit the top guy if literally the same situation happens?  That inconsistency is why fans get annoyed at how stalling is called.

That's double stalling.

BTW, I don't see anything in the NCAA rule book about "actively scoring."  It says "sustain active wrestling."  A parallel spiral ride or something similar isn't really "active wrestling."  In general, I think stalling should be called more often on the top guy than it is currently.  

It is not my interpretation.  It is the interpretation of the association that I belong to.  It makes things easier.  The bottom guy wiggles his hips a little... that is enough to put it on the top guy.  Double stall on the mat stinks, as it leads to a re-start.

I am not a huge fan of the top guy riding parallel, but I don't think that top is stalling "no matter what the bottom man is doing."  If the bottom guy makes SOME effort, then I look to the top guy for stalling.  Double stall on the mat really doesn't work, as it leads to a restart. 

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1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

Why?  Why do you look to the bottom guy first?  And then hit the top guy if literally the same situation happens?  That inconsistency is why fans get annoyed at how stalling is called.

That's double stalling.

BTW, I don't see anything in the NCAA rule book about "actively scoring."  It says "sustain active wrestling."  A parallel spiral ride or something similar isn't really "active wrestling."  In general, I think stalling should be called more often on the top guy than it is currently.  

And it is not inconsistent if it is consistently called that way... like in freestyle, if you are put on the shot clock in the first, you generally aren't in the second.

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23 minutes ago, MonagFam said:

Not college, but we had this HS drama at State in Nebraska.  https://omaha.com/sports/high-school/rubek-scottsbluffs-paul-garcia-is-34th-wrestler-in-nebraska-history-to-win-four-state-titles/article_fb900d2c-73f2-11eb-a2c6-4b856a275f5c.html

Not sure if it is behind a paywall. The gist is it was 0-0 through regulation and the eventual losing wrestler was pretty much on top for the last two periods.  In the overtime period, he was warned about incorrect starting position and eventually penalized a point. That wrestler is deaf without his cochlear implant and did not realize he was down until the match came to an end.  The winning wrestler stated that he figured his opponent did not realize the situation so he played it up in the bottom a bit to make it seem like he was trying to get up when he was content to stay down.

(I am not as familiar with the rules, but it is my understanding the ruling may have been correct, but seldom called?  Some also felt the winner may have been guilty of stalling from the bottom at times.)

I believe the eventual loser was hit with multiple cautions throughout the match, for his starting position on top in the referee's position.  Opponent was awarded a point after the third caution.  The losing wrestler didn't understand what he was doing wrong to receive the cautions, and also didn't realize a poiint was awarded after the third caution.

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