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NJDan

Hall - Martin - Zahid

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It's weird. In college, Hall and Valencia were both 174. Now they are both at 189, but Valencia looks so much bigger that Hall and just as big as Martin who was 184 in college.

Also weird that after the college rivalry, Zahid toyed with Hall today.

Edited by NJDan

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10 hours ago, NJDan said:

It's weird. In college, Hall and Valencia were both 174. Now they are both at 189, but Valencia looks so much bigger that Hall and just as big as Martin who was 184 in college.

Also weird that after the college rivalry, Zahid toyed with Hall today.

It's not weird that Zahid toyed with Mark.  Zahid is way better in neutral than Hall is.  Although Zahid didn't tech Mark, he also beat him pretty easily the last time they met in 2019 at the WTT.  I know it's an Olympic year, but Mark is unfortunately a tweener and should be competing at 79kg.

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2 hours ago, wrestlingnerd said:

Even if he could make 74, why would he want to? He’s not beating Nolf, and maybe not Imart either for that matter, after JB and Dake retire. 

Why would he not beat Nolf, since he always has?  And Imar for that matter right?

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13 minutes ago, Mokoma said:

Why would he not beat Nolf, since he always has?  And Imar for that matter right?

That was then, this is now. I don't see how he even gets down, let alone beat those two guys who have added considerable size and strength along with skill while Hall hasn't added much if anything since his freshman year in college and would be cutting harder than he ever has before to make 74. It's all a moot point. He is at 86 by choice for a reason.

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7 hours ago, ShakaAloha said:

Because Nolf and Martinez have gotten better.  Hall has not.

I’m a Nolf fan for sure but what evidence is there that he really has gotten that much better compared to Hall?  I mean after all as a freshman he beat Imar first try handily while pinning him then has lost what like 5 straight times?

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I'm sorry...but didn't Hall just make the finals of this tournament??  But he is washed up, not improving, to small, not strong enough, everyone else he has beaten before has gotten better, but he hasn't, etc??  Hmmm...or...or...he got beat by the better man that day in Valencia, which could have a different result next time they wrestle.

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5 minutes ago, dman115 said:

I'm sorry...but didn't Hall just make the finals of this tournament??  But he is washed up, not improving, to small, not strong enough, everyone else he has beaten before has gotten better, but he hasn't, etc??  Hmmm...or...or...he got beat by the better man that day in Valencia, which could have a different result next time they wrestle.

I agree with your point of view. However, if anybody to me ever look like HEW its Mark Hall. Hes not big enough to wrestle 186.  For what it's worth, Zahid is not that big either. Everybody seems to confuse tall with big.  I think Mark should be wrestling at 74.

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7 minutes ago, ConnorsDad said:

I agree with your point of view. However, if anybody to me ever look like HEW its Mark Hall. Hes not big enough to wrestle 186.  For what it's worth, Zahid is not that big either. Everybody seems to confuse tall with big.  I think Mark should be wrestling at 74.

Agreed Dad!  I actually think it is exciting with what I feel is the most depth we have had at a lot of the weights for the US in a long time.  Stupid Olympic weight classes really suck!  Leaves really good talent "on the bench" or trying to wrestle a weight that isn't natural for them.

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dman115, you're forgetting how good Hall was to begin with during his "true" freshman year. He improved that year, having spent a summer and a season under Cael, getting the "sophomore year bump" that Gable talks about being the biggest developmental year (on average). We often discuss how overhyped Anthony Valencia was coming out of HS, and for good reason. He was a beast, and Hall crushed him before ever setting foot in the PSU room. He had once in a generation talent at that time.

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1 hour ago, dman115 said:

Agreed Dad!  I actually think it is exciting with what I feel is the most depth we have had at a lot of the weights for the US in a long time.  Stupid Olympic weight classes really suck!  Leaves really good talent "on the bench" or trying to wrestle a weight that isn't natural for them.

This is the best answer. Hall is too big to cut down to 74 and have any gas left in the tank, too small to be a hammer at 86. Had the IOC chosen 79kg as the arbitrary weight class then Hall would be right there in the mix and it's a shame. I'm glad that UWW didn't stick with just the Olympic classes because 20lbs/10kg is just too much of a difference.

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8 hours ago, bnwtwg said:

This is the best answer. Hall is too big to cut down to 74 and have any gas left in the tank, too small to be a hammer at 86. Had the IOC chosen 79kg as the arbitrary weight class then Hall would be right there in the mix and it's a shame. I'm glad that UWW didn't stick with just the Olympic classes because 20lbs/10kg is just too much of a difference.

I'm sure Kyle Dake and Alex Dieringer would like your post if they posted here

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14 hours ago, ConnorsDad said:

I agree with your point of view. However, if anybody to me ever look like HEW its Mark Hall. Hes not big enough to wrestle 186.  For what it's worth, Zahid is not that big either. Everybody seems to confuse tall with big.  I think Mark should be wrestling at 74.

I disagree. He’s always had a kind of disinterested looking style but he’s an absolute beast.  With his recent move to Penn and Burroughs coming in I don’t think his had enough wrestling. He can also go 79 next year. If Burroughs and Dake both stay down and Zahid and Taylor both stay up, I like his chances. 

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7 hours ago, AnklePicker said:

I disagree. He’s always had a kind of disinterested looking style but he’s an absolute beast.  With his recent move to Penn and Burroughs coming in I don’t think his had enough wrestling. He can also go 79 next year. If Burroughs and Dake both stay down and Zahid and Taylor both stay up, I like his chances. 

But what if Imar and Ringer are at 79kg next year?  I think the last time Imar and Hall wrestled was in HS at Freakshow, where Hall won.  They are both obviously way better now and this is freestyle, not folkstyle.  I don't ever remember Hall wrestling Ringer unless I'm forgetting.

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There's also the possibility Zahid goes 79 kg. He can definitely make the weight and he is not that large for 86 kg. And if he can't beat DT or Nickal, I don't see why he wouldn't give 79 kg a shot a year after the Olympics. I don't like Hall's chances of ever making a senior world team.

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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4 hours ago, wrestlingnerd said:

There's also the possibility Zahid goes 79 kg. He can definitely make the weight and he is not that large for 86 kg. And if he can't beat DT or Nickal, I don't see why he wouldn't give 79 kg a shot a year after the Olympics. I don't like Hall's chances of ever making a senior world team.

Yeah, very true.  Zahid wrestled 79 kg back in 2019, so anything is a possibility.

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On 3/9/2021 at 8:25 PM, AnklePicker said:

I disagree. He’s always had a kind of disinterested looking style but he’s an absolute beast.  With his recent move to Penn and Burroughs coming in I don’t think his had enough wrestling. He can also go 79 next year. If Burroughs and Dake both stay down and Zahid and Taylor both stay up, I like his chances. 

I guess I should have said that I never saw him really until college so maybe that is his normal look. If so, then I stand corrected. I just know how happy he looked winning NCAA's as a freshman and I have never seen anything like that from him since.

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15 minutes ago, ConnorsDad said:

I guess I should have said that I never saw him really until college so maybe that is his normal look. If so, then I stand corrected. I just know how happy he looked winning NCAA's as a freshman and I have never seen anything like that from him since.

He’s stoic like most of the penn state guys are. Take after their coach. 
 

Zahid can make 79kg and probably will. If he does he’s the obvious favorite. But if he stays up I can see Hall beating Ringer and Imar. 

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3 hours ago, AnklePicker said:

He’s stoic like most of the penn state guys are. Take after their coach. 
 

Zahid can make 79kg and probably will. If he does he’s the obvious favorite. But if he stays up I can see Hall beating Ringer and Imar. 

he plans out his celebrations,  that is the opposite of stoicism 

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