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uncle bernard

Kyle Dake - Overrated?

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Now hold off on calling this clickbait.  Kyle Dake is a god.  He was a 4x National Champion.

However, he lost 4 times in his career, and all of his losses were to non-national champs.

  • Zack Bailey
  • Reece Humphrey
  • Donnie Vinson
  • Kevin Levalley

So even though he's a 4x National Champ he still will have 4 losses that were to great, but not champion, wrestlers.  Compare to someone like Nolf - 1 injury default loss to Van Brill, other than that his only other losses are to IMAR who was a 2x National Champ.  Or compare to Bo Nickal - 1 loss to Nate Jackson, all other losses were to Myles Martin who was a national champion.

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52 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

Now hold off on calling this clickbait.  Kyle Dake is a god.  He was a 4x National Champion.

However, he lost 4 times in his career, and all of his losses were to non-national champs.

  • Zack Bailey
  • Reece Humphrey
  • Donnie Vinson
  • Kevin Levalley

So even though he's a 4x National Champ he still will have 4 losses that were to great, but not champion, wrestlers.  Compare to someone like Nolf - 1 injury default loss to Van Brill, other than that his only other losses are to IMAR who was a 2x National Champ.  Or compare to Bo Nickal - 1 loss to Nate Jackson, all other losses were to Myles Martin who was a national champion.

This is how it's done!

EAD jimmy cinna

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3 minutes ago, Eagle26 said:

I can’t believe no one talks about how he ran from St. John his senior year and bumped up to 165 where there were no good wrestlers whatsoever.

Yeah, but he wrestled David Taylor, who was better than him based on only having career losses to national champions. 

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Dake is a great wrestler, but I think we can all agree that the senior version of Dake would have gotten soundly beaten by the senior version of Burroughs. 

Additionally, there is nothing inherently special about winning four titles at four different weight classes.  I'm not sure why everybody repeats that like it has some special meaning.  It's about as mindless as everyone saying Gable never "surrendered" a point at the 1972 Olympics (the same Olympics where Yarygin pinned everybody).  And they always use that particular word, "surrendered."  Very weird.

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14 minutes ago, Katie said:

Dake is a great wrestler, but I think we can all agree that the senior version of Dake would have gotten soundly beaten by the senior version of Burroughs. 

Additionally, there is nothing inherently special about winning four titles at four different weight classes.  I'm not sure why everybody repeats that like it has some special meaning.  It's about as mindless as everyone saying Gable never "surrendered" a point at the 1972 Olympics (the same Olympics where Yarygin pinned everybody).  And they always use that particular word, "surrendered."  Very weird.

I don't think it would've been soundly in folkstyle, if at all. In fact, I might favor Dake in that mythical matchup. For the most recent example, ask Nick Lee, who destroyed Eierman over the summer in freestyle (really, left zero doubt) and may not beat him in two attempts this year in foikstyle.

4 weight classes is significant. Is it overvalued as an achievement? Sure. But it's not "nothing". In other weight class sports, it is respected because it takes versatility, "IQ", mental toughness, and an adaptable style to move up in weight classes repeatedly. Not sure why it would be any different for wrestling. You can't wrestle 165 exactly the same way you wrestle 141. 

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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5 minutes ago, wrestlingnerd said:

I don't think it would've been soundly in folkstyle, if at all. In fact, I might favor Dake in that mythical matchup. For the most recent example, ask Nick Lee, who destroyed Eierman not long ago and may not beat him in two attempts this year.

4 weight classes is significant. Is it overvalued as an achievement? Sure. But it's not "nothing". In other weight class sports, it is respected because it takes versatility, "IQ", mental toughness, and an adaptable style to move up in weight classes repeatedly. Not sure why it would be any different for wrestling. You can't wrestle 165 exactly the same way you wrestle 141. 

World-class wrestling is simply a higher level than college wrestling.  It's like college football versus the NFL.  Or maybe college soccer versus the Champions League. 

The version of Burroughs that took out Tsargush, Aliyev, and Goudarzi on the same day would have taken out the senior version of Dake.   

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2 minutes ago, ShakaAloha said:

College Dake didn't score enough points.  Too many non-bonus victories.

Yes, but he rarely surrendered an offensive point-- or am I not allowed to say that?

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11 minutes ago, Katie said:

World-class wrestling is simply a higher level than college wrestling.  It's like college football versus the NFL.  Or maybe college soccer versus the Champions League. 

The version of Burroughs that took out Tsargush, Aliyev, and Goudarzi on the same day would have taken out the senior version of Dake.   

Higher level? In general, yes, but it's also a very different style, especially with the modern rule set that practically eliminates par terre. Lazaro Reinoso of Cuba lost to D2 wrestlers in folkstyle after winning an Olympic medal. Different level? Or different style?

As for the mythical outcome, possibly or even probably, but also probably not in an ass whooping as you suggest. 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, NJDan said:

Yes, but he rarely surrendered an offensive point-- or am I not allowed to say that?

Who can score on a guy who just sits there and throws in a claw ride for minutes at a time, or backpedals for the last part of the third period?

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Dake was masterful at avoiding the immensely talented guys like St. John, and was also able to position himself to wrestle slouches like DT...he is unbelievable in that way.   Clearly his technique was only good enough against guys like DT., but no way against guys like JB.  I think Howe would have beat him.  I think any of the other NCAA champions at his weight 5 years before him and 5 years after him would have won.  Dake clearly doesn't even improve at the same level/rate as other guys...all the guys that he has beat this year, give them till next year and they will pass him up for sure.

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1 hour ago, Housebuye said:

Dake was good for his era, but he wouldn’t stand a chance vs the current crop of guys

I disagree.

Especially 157/165lb Dakes.  Those versions of Dake win 157 and 165 this year fairly easily.  Yes even this version of Deakin, who would contend up at 165 and even 174.

141 would be right there competing for it.  If people are saying Rivera is a contender to win it this year, then 141lb Dake is a contender.

149 has unproven gents.  The Sasso, O'Connor, and Mauller?  Yes.  I'll take Dake over them at NCAAs, where he proved it every single time.

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