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Iowa won the title but Penn St won the day

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7 hours ago, swoopdown said:

Expectation is the root of all discontent. 

Many PSU fans approached the tournament not expecting to win the team title and entered the final day sessions expecting one or two champions.  They got more.

Many Iowa fans expected a runaway team championship and a couple (maybe 3) of champions and got less.

The goods news for any disappointed Iowa fans - Expectations fade.  Achievements never do.

This 100%.  The North Carolina team might be happier than either Iowa or PSU because they got their first individual title in 25 years.  As an OSU fan I'm mostly happy because they lowered my expectations so bad over the course of the season.  Expectations are the key to happiness.  They can alter reality and make 2nd place seem better than first.

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3 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I already said no - 1 champ, 3 finalists, 6 guys in the top 4 plus a 7th is a pretty darn good tournament.

Murin was a 12 seed.   The only ones that really underperformed were Marinelli, who lost to the eventual champion then I believe was injured, and Brands, who was a 12 seed also.  I don’t think making the finals is a collapse, everyone knew Lee/Eierman was a tossup not to mention Eierman outscored 2 of the champions and while I’m sure Kemerer was disappointed to lose to a guy he beat pretty handily last time, even he only scored one less point than Starocci.

They didn’t collapse.  If they really collapsed PSU would have won without doing anything differently than they did.  But PSU could have won without Iowa doing anything differently, despite the fact that they didn’t collapse.

 

Iowa left a ton of points on the table.

PSU with the exception of Berge getting injured didnt.

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18 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Marinelli scored how many points? 4?

No AA for Murin?

Young, Eirman and Kemerer losing to guys they beat previously.

No bonus from Lee in the finals.

With talks of Iowa having 10 AAs this year and breaking the scoring record.

You make the call.

I can't speak for other forums because this year I really didn't visit others, but on this forum it was literally mostly psu fans saying Iowa was going to break records and it wasn't going to be close... almost like they were setting up this exact narrative that Iowa collapsed... weird

 

Also using Marinelli in the argument that they collapsed is weird since he could be injured.

Edited by Molsen

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Just now, Molsen said:

I can't speak for other forums because this year I really didn't visit others, but on this forum it was literally mostly psu fans saying Iowa was going to break records and it wasn't going to be close... almost like they were setting up this exact narrative that Iowa collapsed... weird

No. It was fans from all bases.

The 10th AA in Brands was a stretch but 9 was almost a locked in expectation.

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Just now, BigTenFanboy said:

No. It was fans from all bases.

The 10th AA in Brands was a stretch but 9 was almost a locked in expectation.

The people who were outspoken on it were definitely penn state fans, and I could be mistaken but I'm pretty sure I saw Iowa fans saying that it was likely going to be close, and that again, psu fans making these statements were trying to set a narrative. 

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2 minutes ago, Molsen said:

The people who were outspoken on it were definitely penn state fans, and I could be mistaken but I'm pretty sure I saw Iowa fans saying that it was likely going to be close, and that again, psu fans making these statements were trying to set a narrative. 

No youre just trying to create a narrative within a narrative.

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Just now, BigTenFanboy said:

No youre just trying to create a narrative within a narrative.

Whatever you say, man, but I'm not wrong that it was mostly psu fans stating that Iowa was going to run away with it, and would break the record, and anything less would be a failure. They really were adamant about it, which seems weird if they weren't setting it up for this. 

Reality though is that the Ncaas are really tough, and it was always going to be close. Again, congrats to those individual champs, and congrats to Iowa, that was a big win. No need to downplay their championship.

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Just now, Molsen said:

Whatever you say, man, but I'm not wrong that it was mostly psu fans stating that Iowa was going to run away with it, and would break the record, and anything less would be a failure. They really were adamant about it, which seems weird if they weren't setting it up for this. 

Reality though is that the Ncaas are really tough, and it was always going to be close. Again, congrats to those individual champs, and congrats to Iowa, that was a big win. No need to downplay their championship.

You are wrong. EVERYONE in the wrestling world was saying Iowa was going to run away with the title. It was a forgone conclusion.

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InterMat must be a big PSU fan.  Their final tournament ranking showed Iowa over Penn State by 61.5 points.

RANK SCHOOL POINTS PREV
1 Iowa 152.5 1
2 Penn State 89 2
3 North Carolina State 84 3
4 Oklahoma State 74.5 4
5 Missouri 74 10
6 Arizona State 73 7
7 Virginia Tech 67.5 8
8 Michigan 62 6
9 Nebraska 53 5
10 Iowa State 42.5 9

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3 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Iowa left a ton of points on the table.

PSU with the exception of Berge getting injured didnt.

There you go moving the goalposts.   “Leaving points on the table” is not a collapse.

And no PSU didn’t based on their original seeds, but it certainly would’ve been feasible for Howard and Beard to score some more.  Technically Beard did leave points on the table because if he beat the 26 seed he would’ve made the semis, instead he finished 7th.

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First and Foremost Congrats to Iowa 2021 NCAA Champions...The PSU "Train" had a shot but came up short...4 for 4 in the finals did make the 2nd place finish not feel so bad...Hopefully we get a full season in 2022 and bring home another 4 individual Champions and the team title as well!!!

P.S. Hurry November!!!

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46 minutes ago, oldcougar said:

Q: When was the last time a team lost the title and still walked away feeling like they smashed the other guy's face into the mat?

Iowa is getting props for their PA-heavy team's performance. We all knew going in that the Hawks would win it all. Everyone was prepared for it and no one was surprised or disappointed that PSU couldn't catch them.  

But the Nits came a lot closer to catching them than expected. And as usual, PSU was the dominant player on Saturday night. My theory: blue chip wrestlers wondering where to go? Their questions were answered by a) results, b) attitude of the wrestlers.  i know one shouldn't use the F-word, but you can't avoid it. Penn State wrestlers have fun.

Does the term "pyrrhic victory" apply here?  If not, why are the Iowa fans so defensive, the PSU fans so mellow? 

Is this a great sport or what?

 

Penn State fans: spend all night moving the goal posts and arguing that Penn State really won and also Iowa is actually physically destroying Spencer Lee, so why should anybody go there?

Also Penn State fans:  Man, we're so mellow.

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4 minutes ago, CTMopar said:

First and Foremost Congrats to Iowa 2021 NCAA Champions...The PSU "Train" had a shot but came up short...4 for 4 in the finals did make the 2nd place finish not feel so bad...Hopefully we get a full season in 2022 and bring home another 4 individual Champions and the team title as well!!!

P.S. Hurry November!!!

What world are we in that Mopar is the one making sense?

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WIN magazine had Iowa predicted to outscore  Penn State by 62.5 points:

 
Rk School Total Rank Top 8 Rank TPI Pts
1. Iowa 10 9 144
2. Penn State 9 5 81.5
3. Nebraska 7 4 65.5
4. Oklahoma State 8 4 60
5. NC State 7 5 56.5
6. Arizona State 7 5 55.5
7. Virginia Tech 6 4 46.5
8. Michigan 6 3 46
9. Iowa State 7 4 41
10. Minnesota 7 2 37

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Just now, 1032004 said:

There you go moving the goalposts.   “Leaving points on the table” is not a collapse.

And no PSU didn’t based on their original seeds, but it certainly would’ve been feasible for Howard and Beard to score some more.  Technically Beard did leave points on the table because if he beat the 26 seed he would’ve made the semis, instead he finished 7th.

Howard maxed out. Saying he could score more is false.

Beard maxed out as well. Schultz getting pinned was a huge gift.

I'm not moving the goal posts.

Joe Lee could have won a match or 2 but thats about it.

PSU guys beat guys they previously lost to.

 

Iowa had one of their biggest stars not place In Marinelli. They had wrestlers lose to guys they beat previously. Young beat Lee previously and left points on the table. Murin left a ton of points on the table and cost the team a team point. Eirman and Kemerer should have won.

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4 minutes ago, HurricaneWrestling2 said:

WIN magazine had Iowa predicted to outscore  Penn State by 62.5 points:

 
Rk School Total Rank Top 8 Rank TPI Pts
1. Iowa 10 9 144
2. Penn State 9 5 81.5
3. Nebraska 7 4 65.5
4. Oklahoma State 8 4 60
5. NC State 7 5 56.5
6. Arizona State 7 5 55.5
7. Virginia Tech 6 4 46.5
8. Michigan 6 3 46
9. Iowa State 7 4 41
10. Minnesota 7 2 37

Win Magazine must be a bunch of PSU Fan boys painting a narrative.

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21 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

You are wrong. EVERYONE in the wrestling world was saying Iowa was going to run away with the title. It was a forgone conclusion.

I mean it didn't take me long to find a topic discussing this. Vak, a huge Iowa fan, was saying things like "if Iowa wins" and how it could be close, because well, the NCAAs are tough. PSU has had some close NCAAs too. Others were saying it too, because well psu has dominated the ncaas for a while now, so it was likely going to be close, because of their roster full of p4p recruits. 

Can you guess who were on that topic talking about how Iowa was going to win running away, and how if it's even close, Iowa failed. They all have one thing in common. Huge PSU fans.

Edited by Molsen
Stupid autocorrect

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6 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

Penn State fans: spend all night moving the goal posts and arguing that Penn State really won and also Iowa is actually physically destroying Spencer Lee, so why should anybody go there?

Also Penn State fans:  Man, we're so mellow.

Goal posts have always been Individual NCAA titles.

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2 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Howard maxed out. Saying he could score more is false.

Beard maxed out as well. Schultz getting pinned was a huge gift.

I'm not moving the goal posts.

Joe Lee could have won a match or 2 but thats about it.

PSU guys beat guys they previously lost to.

 

Iowa had one of their biggest stars not place In Marinelli. They had wrestlers lose to guys they beat previously. Young beat Lee previously and left points on the table. Murin left a ton of points on the table and cost the team a team point. Eirman and Kemerer should have won.

Beard lost to the 26 seed.    Collapse!

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1 minute ago, Molsen said:

I mean it didn't take me long to find a topic discussing this. Vac, a huge Iowa fan, was saying things like "if Iowa wins" and how it could be close, because well, the NCAAs are tough. PSU has had some close NCAAs too. Others were saying it too, because well psu has dominated the ncaas for a while now, so it was likely going to be close, because of their roster full of papers recruits. 

Can you guess who were on that topic talking about how Iowa was going to win running away, and how if it's even close, Iowa failed. They all have one thing in common. Huge PSU fans.

100% true.  On this forum at least, the vast, vast majority of people pushing that narrative were Penn State fans.

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1 minute ago, Molsen said:

I mean it didn't take me long to find a topic discussing this. Vak, a huge Iowa fan, was saying things like "if Iowa wins" and how it could be close, because well, the NCAAs are tough. PSU has had some close NCAAs too. Others were saying it too, because well psu has dominated the ncaas for a while now, so it was likely going to be close, because of their roster full of papers recruits. 

Can you guess who were on that topic talking about how Iowa was going to win running away, and how if it's even close, Iowa failed. They all have one thing in common. Huge PSU fans.

I can guess.

WIN magazine.

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Just now, VakAttack said:

Sure, buddy.  Congrats on second.

Every wrestlers goal/dream is to win an NCAA title. The team title is secondary and a nice to have. When you win the team title while another team wins a ton of indivudal titles you are a paper champion. 2001 Minnesota, paper champion. 2021 Iowa paper champion.

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