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Iowa won the title but Penn St won the day

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Just now, BigTenFanboy said:

Every wrestlers goal/dream is to win an NCAA title. The team title is secondary and a nice to have. When you win the team title while another team wins a ton of indivudal titles you are a paper champion. 2001 Minnesota, paper champion. 2021 Iowa paper champion.

So, to be clear, champions?  I'll try to find what PSU was champions of this year somewhere, give me a second....

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Eirman sure looks happy walking off the mat. Ill bet he doesnt care since iowa won the team title.
The team title was a nice consolation prize for Eirman, Kemmer, and Marinelli.
You mean, after losing an NCAA title in overtime, he was upset? Your understanding of the human condition is truly amazing. Let's check on him an hour later.....5f8e7bd0bd0ca1ce5cfb62dec7a17383.jpg

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1 minute ago, VakAttack said:

You mean, after losing an NCAA title in overtime, he was upset? Your understanding of the human condition is truly amazing. Let's check on him an hour later.....5f8e7bd0bd0ca1ce5cfb62dec7a17383.jpg

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Hence it was a nice consolation prize as it was for David Taylor in 2011 and 2013.

His priority number 1 was to win an individual title.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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2 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Lee, Rby, Lee, OConner, Carr, Griffin, Starrocci, Brooks, Ferrari, and Gable.

Ok, lets try again:  who are the team champions of the 2021 NCAA season?  What is the front page of the NCAA wrestling website?

 

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16 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Howard maxed out. Saying he could score more is false.

Beard maxed out as well. Schultz getting pinned was a huge gift.

I'm not moving the goal posts.

Joe Lee could have won a match or 2 but thats about it.

PSU guys beat guys they previously lost to.

 

Iowa had one of their biggest stars not place In Marinelli. They had wrestlers lose to guys they beat previously. Young beat Lee previously and left points on the table. Murin left a ton of points on the table and cost the team a team point. Eirman and Kemerer should have won.

Repeat:  Iowa didn’t collapse.  If they collapsed PSU would have won.  

People predicted DeSanto would lose to Phillippi.  He didn’t, and placed above his seed.

People predicted Cassioppi would lose to Schultz. He didn’t, and placed 2 spots above his seed.

People predicted Warner would “pull a Warner” and not place.  He took 4th, above his seed.

If all three of those things happened, maybe then I would’ve considered it a collapse.

Yes, based on most rankings they “should” have won by more.   But it’s not realistic to “expect” to have 4 champs and 9-10 AA’s.   Fix, Sasso, Deakin, and Amine “should” have won too, but just because they didn’t doesn’t mean they collapsed.

 

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5 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

So, to be clear, champions?  I'll try to find what PSU was champions of this year somewhere, give me a second....

 

6 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Open your eyes to reality.

Individual titles > Team titles in wrestling.

you both been going at it for awhile ...Have you both taken a second to think that maybe both teams and wrestling as whole won the night? 
I don’t think it helps to grow the sport when penn state wins by 50 points and has 5 of the 10 champions, but with Iowa having the  balance and winning the team title but penn state coming out with 3 upsets and going 4-0 in the finals is a Win-Win for both programs and for NCAA wrestling, only thing that would’ve made it better is if Iowa clinched during the finals
 

Recruiting wise it’ll help both programs, some kids are going to want to be the next Aaron brooks and some are going to want to be the next Spencer Lee, Those finals aren’t going to change a committed recruit to go Iowa to penn state and that team trophy is going to flip a psu commit to Iowa 

 

that being said Vak have you ever been apart of a team championship at any level of wrestling ? And if you have did the team win but you lose and not reach your ultimate goal? Bc I was apart of that at 2 different levels of wrestling and it f**king sucks, my team celebrating, going out and having a good time and I was sitting in my dads truck crying by myself ...

so I’d say a guy like joe lee who went 0-2 but then watched his brother and 3 of his friends go all out on Saturday night and win is definitely in a better mood then Eierman or Kem today, considering how much it sucked for a nobody like me on much lower levels , I can’t imagine losing on espn in the D1 ncaa finals then having to take pictures and celebrate the team trophy...I’m sure after time passes they’ll be able to appreciate it but I doubt Eierman, Kem , Marnelli are too happy right now, compared to the young penn state guys who all wrestled over their seeds feel

 

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20 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Repeat:  Iowa didn’t collapse.  If they collapsed PSU would have won.  

People predicted DeSanto would lose to Phillippi.  He didn’t, and placed above his seed.

People predicted Cassioppi would lose to Schultz. He didn’t, and placed 2 spots above his seed.

People predicted Warner would “pull a Warner” and not place.  He took 4th, above his seed.

If all three of those things happened, maybe then I would’ve considered it a collapse.

Yes, based on most rankings they “should” have won by more.   But it’s not realistic to “expect” to have 4 champs and 9-10 AA’s.   Fix, Sasso, Deakin, and Amine “should” have won too, but just because they didn’t doesn’t mean they collapsed.

 

Corrections.

Some people thought Desanto might lose to Phillippi. Most didnt Including the rankings all season. Same thing with Myers. Most people expected Desanto to beat him.

Some people thought Cassioppi might lose to Schultz. Most didnt including the rankings all season.

Warner was pinned first round and gifted by the ref.

Its not realistic to expect 4 champs, but PSU actually did it. Psu greatly overperformed and Iowa under performed. That is a fact. 

 

Iowa still won the team title on paper. Why? Because it was a forgone conclusion.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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Here's an excerpt from a Sports Illustrated article that pretty well sums things up vis-a-vis this topic, IMO:

"Penn State delivered quite a night at the NCAA Wrestling Championships, winning four individual titles, three in overtime.

Roman Bravo-Young (133 pounds), Nick Lee (141), Carter Starocci (174) and Aaron Brooks (184) won NCAA titles, overshadowing Iowa's team title during the finals Saturday night in St. Louis. Bravo-Young, Lee and Starocci all won with takedowns in sudden victory. Brooks, the only top seed of the group, won 3-2.

Despite placing second to Iowa, which clinched the team title before the finals began, Penn State won a pair of head-to-head matches. Second-seeded Nick Lee upset No. 1 seed Jaydin Eierman 4-2, and Starocci, a redshirt freshman, defeated top-seeded Michael Kemerer 3-1."

https://www.si.com/college/pennstate/wrestling/penn-state-wins-four-ncaa-wrestling-titles

 

 

Edited by HurricaneWrestling2

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13 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

The Paper champs? Iowa is the paper champs.

They actually got a bunch of hardware.  Thanks, for your heartfelt congratulations despite the bitter disappointment of your team coming up short.

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10 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Corrections.

Some people thought Desanto might lose to Phillippi. Most didnt Including the rankings all season. Same thing with Myers. Most people expected Desanto to beat him.

Some people thought Cassioppi might lose to Schultz. Most didnt including the rankings all season.

Warner was pinned first round and gifted by the ref.

Its not realistic to expect 4 champs, but PSU actually did it. Psu greatly overperformed and Iowa under performed. That is a fact. 

Moving the goalposts again.

Underperforming is not a collapse.  Yes, Iowa underperformed.  They still had a pretty good tournament overall, if they didn’t then PSU would have won, because yes PSU overperformed, and I never said they didn’t and I think I was one of the few here that basically expected it.

The only result that I was somewhat surprised by was Kemerer losing to Starocci, and even that didn’t really shock me.  Everyone knew Eierman/Lee was a tossup.  Everyone knew Marinelli wasn’t a sure thing against Griffith.   Everyone knew Murin might not place (and he wasn’t really expected to since he was seeded 12th and was coming off an 0-2 performance at Big Tens).   Everyone knew Brands has had some clunkers.   Everyone knew RBY had a good shot against Fix.

It was a great performance by Penn State, no doubt.  But Iowa didn’t collapse.   The fact that PSU had 4 champs and Iowa still won is a testament to that.   Congrats to Iowa, the 2021 team champions.

I’m done.  We knew this conversation was coming and even specifically predicted it.  Again I will give credit to Tbar though because I was expecting a lot of it to be with him and at least he hasn’t jumped in yet.

 

 

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