Spencer Lee

[NJDan 1,070]

Spencer just announced that he tore his ACL 8 days ago. He still won the NCAA tournament!

But could this keep him out of the OTT.

Is there any way he could make the team without wrestling at the OTT?

[uncle bernard 1,113]

44 minutes ago, NJDan said:

Spencer just announced that he tore his ACL 8 days ago. He still won the NCAA tournament!

But could this keep him out of the OTT.

Is there any way he could make the team without wrestling at the OTT?

No and why would that make sense in the first place? Either he wrestles on it or has surgery and is out for the Olympics anyway. Time isn't going to heal it.

[NJDan 1,070]

3 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

No and why would that make sense in the first place? Either he wrestles on it or has surgery and is out for the Olympics anyway. Time isn't going to heal it.

Olympics are not for 4 months. I don't know how long it would take to heal.

[GoNotQuietly 1,168]

Olympics are not for 4 months. I don't know how long it would take to heal.

Heal to full competition level? 6-12 months for one ACL; I don’t even know for both..that would make you much more immobile for much longer


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[gimpeltf 2,045]

1 minute ago, GoNotQuietly said:

Heal to full competition level? 6-12 months for one ACL; I don’t even know for both..that would make you much more immobile for much longer

So he's torn all 3 ACLs?

[buckshot1969 578]

RBY coming down

[alliseeisgold 94]

really sad what happened to lee. In high school he was in every freestyle - international type of tournament he could get his hands on. Was working with brandon slay constantly on freestyle. Was as pro - freestyle a kid as you will ever see.

Gets to iowa and hasn't touched a foreigner since. Instead he's grinding his body into injuries to beat lesser talented college guys nobody cares about.

 

[Billyhoyle 2,475]

28 minutes ago, alliseeisgold said:

really sad what happened to lee. In high school he was in every freestyle - international type of tournament he could get his hands on. Was working with brandon slay constantly on freestyle. Was as pro - freestyle a kid as you will ever see.

Gets to iowa and hasn't touched a foreigner since. Instead he's grinding his body into injuries to beat lesser talented college guys nobody cares about.

 

Yeah, it reminds me of Mark Hall who went from winning junior world titles to basically only wrestling folkstyle. The incentive for these coaches is to get as many NCAA team points out of these guys as they can.  What happens after they graduate doesn't matter.  Cael and Brands are the two best coaches in the country, but their goal is to win NCAA titles. I think guys like Tom Ryan and Zeke are worse coaches, but they both seem really dedicated to freestyle (to the point where it seems like Ryan doesn't spend any time working on the bottom position in folkstyle).

[headache 149]

5 hours ago, alliseeisgold said:

really sad what happened to lee. In high school he was in every freestyle - international type of tournament he could get his hands on. Was working with brandon slay constantly on freestyle. Was as pro - freestyle a kid as you will ever see.

Gets to iowa and hasn't touched a foreigner since. Instead he's grinding his body into injuries to beat lesser talented college guys nobody cares about.

 

He had ACL and shoulder surgery before he got to Iowa City. Looks like you should search around for somebody else to blame. Crap post.

[BigTimeFan 1,141]

He injured his knee eight days prior to NCAAs. He won but in the trials he will face Fix, Suriano, RBY (?), Vito, Mueller and of course Gilman. He’s got to wrestled multiple matches against opponents and has thirteen days to prepare for it if you include today and neglect traveling to Texas.

We all know he wasn’t himself. But we don’t know the details. How traumatic was the injury? According to a random website the most common ACL tears are complete or near complete. See below. The key question I have is how does it affect his training and his ability to wrestler freestyle.  

Injured ligaments are considered "sprains" and are graded on a severity scale.

Grade 1 Sprains. The ligament is mildly damaged in a Grade 1 Sprain. It has been slightly stretched, but is still able to help keep the knee joint stable.

Grade 2 Sprains. A Grade 2 Sprain stretches the ligament to the point where it becomes loose. This is often referred to as a partial tear of the ligament.

Grade 3 Sprains. This type of sprain is most commonly referred to as a complete tear of the ligament. The ligament has been split into two pieces, and the knee joint is unstable.

Partial tears of the anterior cruciate ligament are rare; most ACL injuries are complete or near complete tears.

[MadMardigain 1,596]

Lee is about to become the living embodiment of the Ship of Theseus conundrum.  If Spencer Lee has too many of his body parts replaced or altered when does he stop actually being Spencer Lee?  And if he is no longer Spencer Lee who is he and who is the new the king of the light weights?  Alex Murphy was the front runner of this type of multiple limb surgery back in the 80s in Detroit.  Some questioned if he was the same man afterward?

Edited March 21, 2021 by MadMardigain

[Billyhoyle 2,475]

31 minutes ago, BigTimeFan said:

He injured his knee eight days prior to NCAAs. He won but in the trials he will face Fix, Suriano, RBY (?), Vito, Mueller and of course Gilman. He’s got to wrestled multiple matches against opponents and has thirteen days to prepare for it if you include today and neglect traveling to Texas.

We all know he wasn’t himself. But we don’t know the details. How traumatic was the injury? According to a random website the most common ACL tears are complete or near complete. See below. The key question I have is how does it affect his training and his ability to wrestler freestyle.  

Injured ligaments are considered "sprains" and are graded on a severity scale.

Grade 1 Sprains. The ligament is mildly damaged in a Grade 1 Sprain. It has been slightly stretched, but is still able to help keep the knee joint stable.

Grade 2 Sprains. A Grade 2 Sprain stretches the ligament to the point where it becomes loose. This is often referred to as a partial tear of the ligament.

Grade 3 Sprains. This type of sprain is most commonly referred to as a complete tear of the ligament. The ligament has been split into two pieces, and the knee joint is unstable.

Partial tears of the anterior cruciate ligament are rare; most ACL injuries are complete or near complete tears.

He was pretty clear in saying that he has zero ACLs. I think his training is affected in that he can no longer perform techniques that require a functioning ACL in either leg.  

[77again 120]

6 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

Yeah, it reminds me of Mark Hall who went from winning junior world titles to basically only wrestling folkstyle. The incentive for these coaches is to get as many NCAA team points out of these guys as they can.  What happens after they graduate doesn't matter.  Cael and Brands are the two best coaches in the country, but their goal is to win NCAA titles. I think guys like Tom Ryan and Zeke are worse coaches, but they both seem really dedicated to freestyle (to the point where it seems like Ryan doesn't spend any time working on the bottom position in folkstyle).

Off the top of my head,

David Taylor.    World Champion

Bo Nickal.        U23 World Champion

Frank Molinaro.  5th in Olympics

Zane Retherford.   World team member

Two coaches with Olympic gold medals.

I think Penn State must make some effort at freestyle.

 

 

 

[Lurker 2,034]

10 minutes ago, 77again said:

Off the top of my head,

David Taylor.    World Champion

Bo Nickal.        U23 World Champion

Frank Molinaro.  5th in Olympics

Zane Retherford.   World team member

Two coaches with Olympic gold medals.

I think Penn State must make some effort at freestyle.

 

 

 

Also makes you wonder why guys like Kyle Snyder, Gilman, Gomez..et al would chose to train under these guys??

[uncle bernard 1,113]

6 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

Yeah, it reminds me of Mark Hall who went from winning junior world titles to basically only wrestling folkstyle. The incentive for these coaches is to get as many NCAA team points out of these guys as they can.  What happens after they graduate doesn't matter.  Cael and Brands are the two best coaches in the country, but their goal is to win NCAA titles. I think guys like Tom Ryan and Zeke are worse coaches, but they both seem really dedicated to freestyle (to the point where it seems like Ryan doesn't spend any time working on the bottom position in folkstyle).

This isn't even accurate. Mark Hall competed in freestyle while in college. He just didn't challenge for a team. Couldn't get past Zahid. 

It's not like Spencer was always healthy in high school. He won his first junior world title with a torn labrum and had surgery after. He famously tore his ACL his senior year as well. Some guys are just injury prone.

[Le duke 399]

Also makes you wonder why guys like Kyle Snyder, Gilman, Gomez..et al would chose to train under these guys??

Plus the only guy to ever TF Jordan Burroughs in a senior level international competition.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Billyhoyle 2,475]

1 hour ago, 77again said:

Off the top of my head,

David Taylor.    World Champion

Bo Nickal.        U23 World Champion

Frank Molinaro.  5th in Olympics

Zane Retherford.   World team member

Two coaches with Olympic gold medals.

I think Penn State must make some effort at freestyle.

 

 

 

Most of these guys had limited freestyle experience while in college, but picked it up after graduating. Same was true for Varner under Cael at ISU. I said Cael is a great coach, but it’s just a fact that he emphasized folkstyle way more than freestyle. 

[Plasmodium 2,232]

2 hours ago, headache said:

He had ACL and shoulder surgery before he got to Iowa City. Looks like you should search around for somebody else to blame. Crap post.

You don't refute anything he said.  I can't recall a single FS tournament Lee participated in during what seems like 11 long years in Iowa City.

[wamba 52]

11 hours ago, alliseeisgold said:

really sad what happened to lee. In high school he was in every freestyle - international type of tournament he could get his hands on. Was working with brandon slay constantly on freestyle. Was as pro - freestyle a kid as you will ever see.

Gets to iowa and hasn't touched a foreigner since. Instead he's grinding his body into injuries to beat lesser talented college guys nobody cares about.

 

I agree. College isn’t a challenge for him. He’s so far superior to college competition and the only thing preventing him from wrestling for a gold is staying healthy. 

I wonder if Spencer would have the same injury issue if he’d have gone to PSU. 
 

Edit - I should add I thought Lee was a lock to be our rep in the Olympics and IMO a favorite to win gold so I’m frustrated and want someone to blame for this unfortunate situation. He also seems naturally injury prone - which is such a shame as he could have been a GOAT candidate if he’d have stayed healthy.

Edited March 21, 2021 by wamba

[GoNotQuietly 1,168]

Does anyone think Spencer Lee can overcome these obstacles without any ACLs, and if so how many?

1. Convince himself and his coaching and medical staff that he should delay surgery and take a crack at the OTT

2. Get through Gilman, Fix(?), Gross, Suriano, NaTo, Arujau, etc. to claim the Olympic spot

3. Get through training camp, making weight, and travelling to Tokyo

4. Win a match at the Olympics

5. Place at the Olympics

6. Win the Olympics

 

Personally, I do not believe that he can beat any wrestler I listed domestically if he isn't 100%, but i am curious to see how superhuman he is perceived here.

[Jim L 326]

6 hours ago, Le duke said:

Plus the only guy to ever TF Jordan Burroughs in a senior level international competition.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Plus the guy from Puerto Rico with olympic silver

[Billyhoyle 2,475]

50 minutes ago, Jim L said:

Plus the guy from Puerto Rico with olympic silver

I never questioned the quality of their RTC.  I simply pointed out that their NCAA athletes tend to focus on NCAA competition with a limited freestyle schedule, just like Iowa.  Until they graduate and focus on freestyle, their guys  overperform in folk and underperform in free.  Given how PSU is miles ahead of the rest of the NCAA, you'd expect better freestyle results from their athletes during college if this was their focus...I think a part of the reason they are so far ahead of everyone else is because they focus on folkstyle-when you are a PSU (or Iowa) wrestler, your #1 priority is to score points at NCAAs.  Programs like ASU, tOSU, Michigan, and Cornell tend to put more of a focus on the olympics.  

Edited March 21, 2021 by Billyhoyle

[Lurker 2,034]

In the same thread we’re talking about how he’s a lock for the US team and a favorite to win Olympic gold while also talking about how we hadn’t seen him wrestle FS in years prior to the US Open, in which the top contenders weren’t entered. 

[CA_Wrestler 316]

Gilman is rubbing his hands together with a sinister laugh.....

 

 

 

and staring awkwardly in a direction he isn't supposed to.

[RED 102]

18 hours ago, buckshot1969 said:

RBY coming down

BTW - I don't think Vito has ever lost to RBY.  I think he is 2-0.  Tell RBY to stay home!