Jump to content
pa in taiwan

The real question now about DeSanto / Iowa

Recommended Posts

Iowa: 129.0

PSU: 113.5

Austin DeSanto: 19.5

Tom Brands censured Austin DeSanto from a squad perspective. Should the NCAA punish Iowa by taking away all the points he scored and giving PSU the crown?

The move by Brands is certainly an admission of DeSanto's unacceptable behavior. Should that be the end of it?

I don't think they should take his points away.

It would be the total unraveling of the Vak and the Drake Mallard quack.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No points should be deducted, but Brands should be stripped of his Psychologist of the Year.   Give it to Smith at Okie State because he will have his hands full for the next few years.  Cael lost the award for trying to rehabilitate Andrew Long so there is precedent for stripping the award.

Edited by swoopdown

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are a few points here that seem very clear to me. I know that the original post had a joke about Vak and Mallard Drake, but this is a serious issue. 

Tom Brands took action to sanction DeSanto; this was a calculated move designed to preempt any more severe NCAA action on this infraction. He moved to control the ultimate outcome. I cannot fault Brands in any way; if I were the coach, I would have acted the same. To sit on one's hands and do otherwise could have led NCAA officials to come to the conclusion expressed by Force118 above, namely that threatening any NCAA personnel at the NCAA tournament should result in an automatic disqualification and loss of team points.

My own personal point is that, as a PSU wrestling fan, I would not want Iowa to lose DeSanto's team points. This would be an empty victory, one that wasn't earned, but resulted from a penalty for bad behavior after the fact. This opinion shows that I am a traditional, somewhat conservative American, and I believe that Cael Sanderson and his squad, if given the power to decide whether to deduct the points from Iowa, would pass. You have to earn it. 

Finally, mental health is an issue here, and Austin DeSanto, although he has made significant progress in dealing with losing, anger, and emotion, still has some ways to go. Mental health issues are not like throwing a switch; Tom Brands threw the switch and now Austin is okay. It's a long process, and we, Coach Brands, Iowa, and the NCAA, should encourage DeSanto to continue his progress. I look forward to seeing him next year. He's a competitor; he's entertaining, and he's an excellent wrestler. He brought a full 7 minutes to the match with Fix. 

Although it was a shortened season, the NCAA big dance was pretty exciting, all in all.

Congratulations to Iowa on the team title.

Congratulations to PSU for four individual championships.

Looking forward to next year. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the championship ncaa football game.   A defensive end goes nuts after a play and gets ejected.   Points taken away?   Or he just gets ejected.    Not sure.  I don’t follow football. 
 

a pitcher is mad at the other team.   And throws a high and tight 101 mph pitch.  And hits his opponent In the face.  Take runs away.  Not sure.  
 

in bball.  Someone smacks someone else.   
 

in tennis.   
 

I’m tired.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, pa in taiwan said:

There are a few points here that seem very clear to me. I know that the original post had a joke about Vak and Mallard Drake, but this is a serious issue. 

Tom Brands took action to sanction DeSanto; this was a calculated move designed to preempt any more severe NCAA action on this infraction. He moved to control the ultimate outcome. I cannot fault Brands in any way; if I were the coach, I would have acted the same. To sit on one's hands and do otherwise could have led NCAA officials to come to the conclusion expressed by Force118 above, namely that threatening any NCAA personnel at the NCAA tournament should result in an automatic disqualification and loss of team points.

My own personal point is that, as a PSU wrestling fan, I would not want Iowa to lose DeSanto's team points. This would be an empty victory, one that wasn't earned, but resulted from a penalty for bad behavior after the fact. This opinion shows that I am a traditional, somewhat conservative American, and I believe that Cael Sanderson and his squad, if given the power to decide whether to deduct the points from Iowa, would pass. You have to earn it. 

Finally, mental health is an issue here, and Austin DeSanto, although he has made significant progress in dealing with losing, anger, and emotion, still has some ways to go. Mental health issues are not like throwing a switch; Tom Brands threw the switch and now Austin is okay. It's a long process, and we, Coach Brands, Iowa, and the NCAA, should encourage DeSanto to continue his progress. I look forward to seeing him next year. He's a competitor; he's entertaining, and he's an excellent wrestler. He brought a full 7 minutes to the match with Fix. 

Although it was a shortened season, the NCAA big dance was pretty exciting, all in all.

Congratulations to Iowa on the team title.

Congratulations to PSU for four individual championships.

Looking forward to next year. 

Absolutely perfect post especially about mental health. It’s easy to judge but for sure living with mental illness is a curse. It is also painful for family members. I can say with 100% certainly that AD’s parents are distraught. I am praying for AD and his family. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Force118 said:

Can’t think of anything more deserving of an automatic disqualification and loss of team points than threatening to kill a female media official at the NCAA tournament. 

Get outta here! Is this what Desanto did? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Force118 said:

Can’t think of anything more deserving of an automatic disqualification and loss of team points than threatening to kill a female media official at the NCAA tournament. 

Throwing a chair in the direction of a referee?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, ChicagoHawk said:

In the championship ncaa football game.   A defensive end goes nuts after a play and gets ejected.   Points taken away?   Or he just gets ejected.    Not sure.  I don’t follow football. 
 

a pitcher is mad at the other team.   And throws a high and tight 101 mph pitch.  And hits his opponent In the face.  Take runs away.  Not sure.  
 

in bball.  Someone smacks someone else.   
 

in tennis.   
 

I’m tired.  

Serena Williams vs Naomi Osaka in the 2018 US Open finals:

Serena allegedly received coaching from stands:  Warning

Serena smashed racquet after losing a game:  Loss of point for the next game

Serena calls umpire a thief:  Loss of game

Can you imagine another penalty, which would have been a DQ (happened to McEnroe in one major)?    Imagine further if they pulled all Serena's victories from the draw?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, pa in taiwan said:

It would be the total unraveling of the Vak and the Drake Mallard quack.

Yes, it would be a complete unraveling if the hypothetical situation that is never going to happen, happens. Sweet post dude.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

Get outta here! Is this what Desanto did? 

Nobody actually knows. The only source on that is Pat Mineo who I'm sure you're aware is not exactly credible. He obviously said something though.

It's disappointing. He's gone 2 years without an incident. Hopefully, he continues to make progress. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whatever Desanto did -- it does not seem to have been noticed by any NCAA official. So Brands probably could have said and done nothing and gotten away with it. But even if an official did see it, is there any precedent for penalizing a wrestler or a team for off-mat conduct. I would imagine that it's not rare for wrestlers to act badly after getting off the mat, win or lose. Some have been known to throw second place medals in the trash without penalty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The NCAA rules do allow for DQ for pre and post match unsportsmanlike conduct. The rules also require eliminating all team points earned in a tournament for flagrant misconduct. Not sure what DeSanto did but I don’t think it could qualify as flagrant misconduct, and even if it could I think that ship has sailed.

Edited by BAC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, gowrestle said:

Absolutely perfect post especially about mental health. It’s easy to judge but for sure living with mental illness is a curse. It is also painful for family members. I can say with 100% certainly that AD’s parents are distraught. I am praying for AD and his family. 

I couldn’t agree more...the only thing I would add is that adrenaline and certain conditions are reinforcing to each other.  Watching AD this tournament two things occurred to me.  He has jumped levels wrestling wise.  He had as good a tournament as virtually anyone there.  That said, his struggles with his emotions is a challenge he will face his entire life.  Watching his quirky reactions and frenetic running from the mat after matches gives a pretty clear indication of that.  Each of us can argue all day long that what he purportedly said was either hyperbole (“my parents are gonna kill me”) or a violent threat, but all of us should take gowrestle’s comment and pa’s original post to heart.

There, but for the grace of God go I.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, NJDan said:

Whatever Desanto did -- it does not seem to have been noticed by any NCAA official. So Brands probably could have said and done nothing and gotten away with it. But even if an official did see it, is there any precedent for penalizing a wrestler or a team for off-mat conduct. I would imagine that it's not rare for wrestlers to act badly after getting off the mat, win or lose. Some have been known to throw second place medals in the trash without penalty.

I think one possible argument here is that what he did may have happened as he was leaving the mat (so may not really be considered “off the mat”).  Maybe similar to how there have been HS dual meets decided by team point deductions for guys pulling their singlet straps down.

Even so, pretty sure you can get a flagrant misconduct for things that happen off the mat, such as fighting.   Could be wrong but believe in HS you can get one for getting caught smoking a cigarette.  I guess I could see the argument for the alleged threat to be considered a flagrant misconduct if that’s what he did, but that’d be up to the discretion of the referee(s).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, my thoughts are that DeSanto has had some issues in the past, and until last night I thought that they were in the past. Unfortunately it appears that they aren’t. So I guess the question is, what do the Brands Bros do about it. I guess it depends on what they have already done and tried. I mean have the sent him to counseling? Have they got him other types of mental/psychological assistance? I don’t know, but clearly I think that this issue is not just what happens on the mat, but what will happen in life. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m not surprised he threatened somebody. I recall from Terry’s documentary, he was walking matside and threatened to knock a guy out who was just walking by. “I’ll take you out, I don’t care how big you are!” If I recall correctly. Iowa style baby!

https://www.facebook.com/FloWrestling/videos/545674472542226/

Edited by backpack

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, backpack said:

I’m not surprised he threatened somebody. I recall from Terry’s documentary, he was walking matside and threatened to knock a guy out who was just walking by. “I’ll take you out, I don’t care how big you are!” If I recall correctly. Iowa style baby!

https://www.facebook.com/FloWrestling/videos/545674472542226/

Yes, Terry did that, but not so the guy would hear. It was kind of jocular and not a threat to the guy. Anyhow, the Brands Brothers are kind of psycho themselves-- and I like Iowa.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, NJDan said:

Yes, Terry did that, but not so the guy would hear. It was kind of jocular and not a threat to the guy. Anyhow, the Brands Brothers are kind of psycho themselves-- and I like Iowa.

Maybe Terry, I wouldn't put Tom in that category.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...